Philosopher - By Jove that's it!! Permit me if you will, to now bring our whole discourse full circle! We began with the decline of Catholicism in Eire, identifying the roots of her form of Christianity, viz. Egyptian Monastic which was severely penetential (God will inflict corporal and temporal punishment on all who sin against Him). We said that this was a major root of the decline of the faith in modern socitey via the Enlightenment,etc. , and Irish-Gallic missionary efforts whose arms … [More]

Just to add one last point, however, I think that there will need to emanate, centered on the beauty of the liturgy, the same truths reflected in architecture, art, and music, especially, first beginning with sacred architecture, art, and music. The via media to transcendent truth, beauty and goodness will be obfuscated if its taking place in a modern soul-less, and ugly Church, surrounded by kitsch art. In other words, you can't refute modernism with a magnificent liturgy, (because it is in … [More]

ACL, I also, agree with your, to use a medical metaphor, treatment plan. Moreover, even the great Christopher Dawson, spoke of the cultural manifestations that emanate, for good or ill, from the religious animus' praxis i.e. liturgy. If the liturgy, including the homilies radiate the balance of God's love and mercy with justice- the via media, as you pointed out- it will not only begin to re-orient Catholics toward the transcendent truth, beauty and goodness, but, if I may, use an ole Italian … [More]

In addtion to the below, i add that a Liturgy which is utterly at odds with the Global and local culture of society, and commensurate with the Lex Credendi (ex hypothesi) is needed. A system of morals and a via vitae which flows from the contra-societal Creed and therefore Liturgy of the Roman Catholic Church might just offer to the world the much needed antithesis of the nova pneuma mundi.

As it stands now, the Liturgy and Her consequent via vitae, the principal mode of evangelisation (HOW we … [More]

Philosopher - Here, here that man! We are on the same page. The pendulum has swung rather too much to the wrong side, to the extreme. The Celtic influenced Church emphasized punishment and sin to the extreem. The effects we have seen and discussed. However, now, we see, like children who have left home for the first time, an overindulgence in departing from the old ways, i.e. completely running away from any teachings on sin and punishment into the arms of a eutopic, pagan Graeco-Romanesque … [More]

ACL, good points, and well made!
I would say that your list of the loss of the West’s sensus spiritus by Richerdson is quite accurate. And, on point 4., I would add that the over emphasis of Caritas to the detriment of Veritas, is something that has been detrimental to the Church, not something positive, because this attitude of amorphous “all you need is love, love” to quote the Beetles, has impeded the Church in proclaiming the full truth of the Gospel’s to man. It has given rise to in … [More]

@ SBpfu - Indeed....sorry about that. I just 'caught on' ... tis the other way around: Cathars followed by Jancenism. Thanks for the correction However, the two are still connected, on account of the Celtic root. That's the point.

Philosopher, indeed. I see your point, however, I think that the proclamation of a God of punishment and fear no longer appeals to healthy men. The chaps who go for the Muslim option, after listening to most of them on the television or reading their stories in the newspapers, one can see that they are not quite pschologically balanced fellows. Might the need of which I spoke in my last paragraph of my last post be a factor here; that anything to FILL the void might be a factor - an appeal to … [More]

ACL, after some thought on your thesis of the decline of the Irish church, I think that in the existential sphere, your argument has some merit. We all know stories of people, who have left the Church, and even Protestants who, also, have made similar remarks, about being turned off by the hyperbolic emphasis on fear of hell. However, it still doesn't explain, why faith is collapsing on a grand scale, not only in Ireland, but also in Canada, the U.S. Australia, South Africa...all over the … [More]

To the first point, do remember that the two Churches of Hibernia and Gaul were linked together long before the XVII century at the navel by their common Celtic heritage. The connexion between Jancenism in Eire and that of the Gallic church resulting in heresey of the Cathars in France was made by theologians long ago (e.g. Hans Von Balthesar and Dom Eugine Gajard). Dearest SBpfu, things aren't that 'black-and-white' as you might think. Nothing regarding the church exists only on the national … [More]

Philosopher, indeed that man! However, I prefer to locate my starting point for investigation of the problem at the grass-roots level rather than the academic (and therefore clerical) level.

Now, due to the ferver of the Irish Church, who did evangelise Britania as well (Aidan in the North and his compadres in the South via Wales), the Irish have inadvertantly spread their form of Christianity. On the other hand, there was Agustine sent to Canturbury from Rome itself. In addition to which, … [More]

ACL, I would have to respectfully disagree with your diagnosis. I think it has more to do with a loss of faith (that is occurring across the the board in the West), due to a set of conditions and intellectual categories that has been shaped by a relentless host of thinkers since the Enlightenment that have attacked and rejected transcendence (and, Absolute and certain Truth, Beauty and Goodness) in favor of immanentism within modernity itself, rather than the austere Christian practices of the … [More]

Hi JTLuizza! Nope, I didn't say that.... What I am saying is that the case of the Church's demise in Eire is rooted in the type of Chrisitanity which they practice; a form no longer accepted by healthy human beings! That the Egyptian brand of Christianity was de rigeurin Eire is clear to see from all the documents of the monasteries (as I alluded to) and that this brand of Christianity was quite heretical in its extreem forms, and questionable in its normal form. Just look at the heresy of … [More]

So basically, AClumdsen, they were doing it wrong all these centuries in Ireland and now, once they revive from the collapse of the faith, they will finally be doing it right?

And we can blame the collapse of the faith in France and Germany on Irish missionaries who spread their error?

That's one theory.

Gosh.... What Mr Voris does NOT say, or even allude to, is the type of Chrisitanity that existed and 'coloured' the land of Erie from ancient times.

Ireland had a special link with the christianity of the Egyptian Desert of antiquity. Through the mediterranean island of Lerins (off the Southern coast of Gaul), the Irish monks of antiquity were schooled and practiced in Egyptian Christian monasticism (from the desert fathers). This was a particularly severe and corporally mortifying brand of … [More]

Shocking and so sad. My region here in Germany owes a lot to the Irish monks who brought Jesus Christ to this country.

Sad, and depressing. Western culture and civilization is in a free-fall. Only, a couple of faithful Catholics out of the multitude, who are regular Mass attendees. I think, Micheal would have, more than likely, gotten the same results in any Mall in a state or city with a high Catholic population in the U.S.