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ACLumsden 01/04/2012 02:03:59

Aaron

Temperance 31/03/2012 19:02:39

Fidelium.

Temperance 31/03/2012 19:01:46

Hi ACL. Yes I guess we disagree on this issue. But I do not reject any teaching the church officially proclaims. God Bless you this holy week!

ACLumsden 31/03/2012 18:33:28

Sorry Aaron, your view on the Will of God is quite human, nothing like unto the God described by Holy Mother Church, or the Fathers. I offered to you the Doctor of Doctors, St Thomas Aquinas, and you rejected him, if I were to offer to you the great Augustine of Hippo, or even our Holy Father in his exegesis on the Pentateuch, I am convinced you would also reject him. Therefore, let us agree to disagree.

Pax tecvm! Frater, orantes et hebdomadae sanctae habes.

Fidelium 31/03/2012 18:08:05

Aaron....tis the truth you speak.

Temperance 31/03/2012 17:56:49

Hi ACLumsden. Glad we agreed on the more important things.

About Aquinas he does speak of the different evils you are right. Thomas is a great Saint and a Doctor of the Church, but it has been proven that he was wrong on some issues even. However, I don't think he would agree that God "'gives nature permission'" in the context you have given. The way your stating this, it sounds like "nature" wanted the Homosexuals killed?! The whole philosophy here is that God wanted those Homo's killed. He … [More]

ACLumsden 31/03/2012 13:26:33

Hi Aaron

. We agree that the gay agrenda is evil; we agree that Sodom and Gomorrah suffered for their sin. However, I am here to tell you, that we are not in agreement, regarding the way you think God was involved in their punishment - see St Thomas Aquinas on the problem of evil- Summa Theologiae: I, Q. xlviii, a. 5, 6; Q. lxiii, a. 9; De Malo, I, 4.

Here Aquinas discribes the three types of evil: Evil is threefold, viz., "malum naturæ" (metaphysical evil), "culpæ" (moral), and "paenæ" … [More]

holyrope 3 31/03/2012 12:08:12

Don't rain on their parade!

Like their Folsom Street Parade!

Aaron & HC

www.latinmasstimes.com

Temperance 31/03/2012 12:03:18

Hi ACLumsden. I read your post and understand where you are coming from. But I have to say you have a modernist view on this particular Bible book. I would have to respectfully disagree with your views. I do believe maybe it could happen as you put it, but I actually think and I would have to say most traditional Theologians would also that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorra by how the Bible illustrates it. With Sodom and Gomorra one has to remember it was a complete and total corrupted … [More]

Holy Cannoli 31/03/2012 10:58:13

If it were up to the “Soft on Sodomy” crowd they would prefer that the world believed that the sin of Sodomy was inhospitablity. Nothing could be further from the truth but the truth is not important to homo promo activists. For them, it's about pushing their agenda.

Throughout History, Jewish and Christian scholars of all persuasions have recognized that one of the chief sins that provoked God’s destruction of Sodom was its people's homosexual behavior. But today certain homosexual … [More]

ACLumsden 31/03/2012 09:06:46

Hey Greg! Hi!

Indeed that man, indeed. If it were up to rhemes and his lot, we would all still be believing that the Earth is flat and that the Universe orbits the Earth! Not to worry that man, each to his own.

Holy Cannoli 31/03/2012 07:18:02

In the New Testament, Christ refers to the destruction of Sodom "in the days of Lot" (Luke 17:28, 29), and St. Peter (2 Peter 2:6-8) speaks of the deliverance of the "just Lot". The fate of Lot's wife is referred to in Wis., x, 7; Luke 17:32. According to Jewish and Christian tradition, the pillar of salt into which she was converted was preserved for some time (Josephus, "Antiq.", I, xi, 4; Clement of Rome, I Corinthians 11.2; Irenæus, "Adv. Haer.", IV, xxxi). Various explanations are given … [More]

Holy Cannoli 31/03/2012 07:13:07

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7

For the unnatural sins of their inhabitants Sodom, Gomorrha, Adama, and Seboin were destroyed by "brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven" (Genesis 13:13; 18:20; 19:24, 29; Hosea 11:8). Since then, their names are synonymous with impenitent sin, and their fall with a … [More]

ACLumsden 31/03/2012 06:31:50

Hi Aaron

: In answer to your question, I have two points to share:
1. Take the Creation Myths for example. These appear in the book of Genesis Ch.1 and 2. Two completely different accounts of the Creation. Now, broaden ones view to encompass the whole Fertile Crescent. The Babylonians, Asyrians and Egyptians also had Creation Myths.

The Babylonian in particular is interesting for us. The Babylonian Creation Myth of how Marduk called the Cosmos into being bears striking resemblence to the … [More]

Holy Cannoli 31/03/2012 05:07:32

God created life He can take it away, can't He?

He can and he absolutely does.
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It is true, when one offends us unjustly, God does not will his sin, nor does he concur in the sinner’s bad will; but God does, in a general way, concur in the material action by which such a one strikes us, robs us or does us an injury, so that God certainly wills the offense we suffer and it comes to us from his hands. Thus the Lord told David he would be the author of those things … [More]

Temperance 31/03/2012 00:12:59

Hi ACLumsden. Interesting outlook on the whole destruction of the two cities. I enjoyed your comments on St Anselm, St Thomas St Aquinas, & St Augustine. I guess that could happen.

I would argue though that God can kill who ever He wants. If you think about it God created man and told him he couldn't kill but never said that about Himself. God created life He can take it away, can't He?

Not meaning to stray from the issue, but I am still not convinced that God didn't give the order to have … [More]

ACLumsden 30/03/2012 20:17:12

Hey Aaron

. That sin has its consequences is a direct function of the Fall. This Fall, you would agree, was on account of man choosing to disobey God's Will. If men choose evil, the consequences are dire. But who inflicts these consequences?

In the case of Sodom etc, present archeological evidence points to the following:

1. That there is a rather large deposit of natural hyrocarbons beneath the Dead Sea (hence the everpresent tar washing up on its beaches).

2. Loaded in these deposits are … [More]

Temperance 30/03/2012 19:56:41

holyrope always great to see you!

Great link! I live next to one of those churches!

holyrope 3 30/03/2012 19:51:41

AaronBrennan..

www.latinmasstimes.com

Temperance 30/03/2012 19:19:13

I agree with you that reading the Scriptures one must have proper hermeneutics, I am actually getting my Bachelors of Science this may in Religion.

Never read the Bible in Hebrew though, but I do study it in Greek from time to time.

But with the issue at hand my whole idea is that for those cities to have been destroyed God would have wanted it or willed it. So in essence God did destroy them. Maybe not by His hand but he certainly gave the order to have them all burned.

I see your logic and … [More]

ACLumsden 30/03/2012 18:58:59

Did you read those passages in ancient Hebrew? Did you read any biblical concordance and Lexicon? Or did you just go by what there is in English?

If you did only go by the English without commentary and Lexicon, then I can understand whence comes your view. On the other hand, if you did read the Hebrew, with a good Lexicon and with benefit of a biblical scholar present, then you could not have arrived at your conclusions.

Do keep in mind that HOly Mother Church states that She is the only … [More]

Temperance 30/03/2012 18:46:42

Hi ACLumsden. I looked up the Scriptures and they stated this--

Genesis 13:10
10 Lot looked around and saw that the whole plain of the Jordan toward Zoar was well watered, like the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt. (This was before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.)

Genesis 19:24
24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens.

I am not a Theologian, but maybe He(God) did actually want those Homo's dead. Not trying to make … [More]

ACLumsden 30/03/2012 18:33:01

LOL! Oh quite... but God did not give any order; the priests interpreted by means of the Law, what God's will was. This we believe to be true. But God did not issue forth an edict to kill anyone.

Temperance 30/03/2012 18:29:34

ACLumsden Lol, Lighten up! I know God didn't kill them in the Old Testament, God sent his angels to do so. It was their choice to live in those cities and commit the sins of Sodomy and sexual perversion. But if you wish to get technical God did kill them because he gave the order for the cities (Sodom & Gomorra) to be destroyed.
Lol, my last post was joking. The climate we live in everyone is offended by this subject. The truth Homosexual behavior is a terrible evil.

ACLumsden 30/03/2012 18:20:26

"Biblical scholars were unaware of the existence of the homosexual person." - a fallacy! (1)

(2) - God does not kill anyone; one is the cause of ones demise due to sin. Tis all about choice.

Temperance 30/03/2012 18:18:10

"Biblical scholars were unaware of the existence of the homosexual 'person.'"

Yea, thats because God killed them.