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Father Gary Thomas and The Rite-- Interview with Father Gary Thomas, the Church Consultant for The Rite.More
Father Gary Thomas and The Rite--

Interview with Father Gary Thomas, the Church Consultant for The Rite.
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Audio interview: www.bustedhalo.com/videoandaudio/interview-fathe…
Fr. Gary Thomas is a Vatican-certified practicing exorcist whose experience is the subject of the new movie The Rite, starring Anthony Hopkins, scheduled for release on January 28. That movie is based on a 2009 book about Fr. Gary by journalist Matt Baglio, The Rite: The Making of A Modern Exorcist.
We interviewed Fr. Gary on the …More
Audio interview: www.bustedhalo.com/videoandaudio/interview-fathe…
Fr. Gary Thomas is a Vatican-certified practicing exorcist whose experience is the subject of the new movie The Rite, starring Anthony Hopkins, scheduled for release on January 28. That movie is based on a 2009 book about Fr. Gary by journalist Matt Baglio, The Rite: The Making of A Modern Exorcist.
We interviewed Fr. Gary on the heels of the book’s release, about what is and isn’t true concerning exorcisms and demonic possession, and what this means in terms of our faith life. The book and upcoming movie chronicle Father Gary’s own Vatican training to become an exorcist, and give an inside look of the church’s use of the rite of exorcism and its role in contemporary life.

Fr. Dave Dwyer: Father Gary, many of our listeners might be surprised to know that having a priest on staff at a diocese in the role of an exorcist is still something that we do. They may think, “Oh, well gee, isn’t that a thing of the past,” or, “Didn’t we get rid of that? ” or something like that. But it actually not only is common, but you went over to the Vatican for training. Is that about right?
Fr. Gary Thomas: I did. I finished my 12-year term as pastor of my previous parish, and was granted a one-year sabbatical. I laid out the things I had hoped to do on it. However, at the time, when I was going through the process of getting ready for the sabbatical, exorcism was not part of the equation. Exorcism became part of the equation toward just before the end of my term as a pastor, in which the bishop appointed me, and then said, “Oh, by the way, there’s a course in Rome, when you’re there, on exorcism.” But, halfway through the course — which is when I met Baglio [journalist Matt Baglio, author of The Rite: The Making of A Modern Exorcist] — halfway through the course, it became really apparent to me that I needed to tutor under an exorcist, that the course itself was good, but the course was not based itself on any practical training and so…
FD: I would imagine that it would be hard to be appointed by your bishop to fulfill that role without some sort of training. I mean, if they asked me to do that I’d be, “Well, okay, what should I do?”
FG: Well, most bishops, and this is not to knock the bishops, very few bishops really understand what’s involved in the ministry of exorcism, and I can say that, including my own bishop, who appointed me. And I think I, a number of times, tried to explain a variety of things to him, and he does very much believe in the reality of Satan, but I think that, even when I went over to take this course that I had no idea what was really going to be expected of me. It all kind of unfolded and evolved as time went on. And so, I think once I was training under Father Carmine De Filippis — whose name is in the book, who is one of the nine exorcists in Rome — it became very apparent to me not only that is this very serious, which I didn’t deny that it was, but the variety of situations and peoples’ experiences that were coming to Father Carmine and what really was required. And the course, I think, provided actually a lot of very important insight and information that really kind of helped supplement the actual practical teaching.
In my three years as an exorcist, I’ve exorcised five people, and I would say that there was one particular situation that would probably be pretty similar to [the portrayal in The Exorcist.]
FD: Well, let’s talk about some basics for our listeners out there. And, we have a lot of Catholic listeners, even many non-Catholic listeners, and maybe the basics of the Church’s teaching that has to do with this, as in evil, as in Satan, as in being possessed by demons. We certainly see it in the Gospels and maybe some people relegate it to, “Well, there was a lot of stuff that happened in Jesus’ time that doesn’t happen anymore.” What is our real belief about this stuff as Catholics?
FG: Well, I think you simply have to begin with Scripture and then it really reaches an apex in the Paschal Mystery — the death and resurrection of Christ. In the very first book of the Bible, the book of Genesis, there’s the first reference in the temptation of Adam and Eve by the serpent, which really constitutes what we say is the Fall of Man. It is out of the tensions which you find in the rhythms of the Old Testament that lead up to Jesus’ coming, where it’s very clear that that Christ’s mission is to conquer Satan, sin, death, and create the bridge for us to reach eternal life through the grace of the Son in the Father. And so, you know, the gospels of Matthew and Mark, in particular, are fraught with many, many clear examples of demonic possession, and Jesus as the exorcist who comes and delivers people from the throes of Satan and demons.
FD: Certainly there are those accounts in Scripture. In addition to healing somebody from blindness, or from some other sickness, it very clearly does say that somebody was possessed by a demon or he drove a whole bunch of them into the pigs and all that.
FG: Right. Right. We went through a phase, though, I think, in the post-Vatican II Church until somewhat recently, where I think a lot of biblical scholars saw exorcisms as really a metaphor for evil that really was unexplainable, and sometimes would think of possessions or the manifestations of possessions as being related to diseases that had yet to be discovered per se. But now, there’s a much sounder grounding that, no, Christ, in fact, was performing real-life exorcisms. And so, I encounter lots of Catholics who will say, “Oh, the Church is still doing those things?” or, “We still believe in Satan?” Satan hasn’t go away. He is relevant in and out of season.
FD: …You’re in the Diocese of San Jose? Is that right?
FG: That is correct.
FD: Even in California, where people think life is sort of relaxed and casual, sunny and pleasant, you in the course of your duties have been a part of — you have performed exorcisms, right?
FG: I have. I have.
FD: Well, tell us what that’s like, I mean, what would people not expect it to be. I suppose what many people bring to the table is Hollywood’s version of that. So, many people would have seen somewhere back in the day the film with Linda Blair, The Exorcist, so I guess, in terms of our recollection, is it like this…?
[Plays sound clip from the movie The Exorcist.]
“I command you by the judge of the living and the dead to depart from this servant of God. It’s the power… (Holy Water!)
The power of Christ compels you
The power of Christ compels you
The power of Christ compels you”
FD: So very familiar in our pop culture, and people even called in earlier in the show, Father Gary, with other movies like The Exorcism of Emily Rose that are certainly based on true accounts, so people go, “Are the Hollywood directors just kind of juicing that up or is that kind of what you experience?”
FG: Sometimes that’s what I experience.
I think as long as people have a relationship with God and stay close to God, they really don’t have anything to fear.
FD: Wow. Okay.
FG: And, what’s fascinating about that movie, just as a quick aside, it is amazing to me that that movie was made in about 1972, so that is about a 37-year-old movie. That movie is still inscribed in an icon kind of way in the minds of people when they think of exorcism. I cannot tell you how many times people have even cited that movie, “Oh, I saw the movie The Exorcist, is that what you do?” Not The Exorcism of Emily Rose but The Exorcist. It is just amazing that after all these years that movie still has an embedded memory in the minds of so many people. Yes, to answer your question, I have exorcised in my three years as an exorcist, I’ve exorcised five people, and I would say that there was one particular situation that would probably be pretty similar to what you just played in terms of the movie. I don’t use the word “compel” but I do certainly say, “In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ I demand you to leave,” and I will say that repeatedly in the midst of the prayers of exorcism from the Solemn Rite that I pray over the people.
FD: So essentially this is us saying, as a church, that is not just Hollywood lights and bells. We believe that some sort of demon, whether it is Satan himself and his minions can take over a human person.
FG: In a rare full possession, yes, but not every situation a full possession. In fact full possessions are very, very rare. However, less than full possessions are not quite as rare although they are not normative — what we would call an oppression or an obsession that sometimes does exist with people where they’re able on the one level to function but on another level they have opened a door or someone else has opened a door for them where a demon does have some serious influence. I would like to stress, though, you really have to invite the demon in. Or, someone else has to invite the demon in. Lots of times, though, people, out of fear, go, “What do we have to do to protect ourselves?” What I say back is largely, “Continue having a relationship with the Lord. Stay close to God in prayer, and refrain from being involved in things that would be considered to be the New Age — rituals of the New Age, rituals of the occult, things such as Wicca, or tarot cards, Ouija boards, superstitious practices, black magic, white magic, anything that would really be idolatrous. I think as long as people have a relationship with God and stay close to God, they really don’t have anything to fear in the sense of any of the kinds of things that we’re specifically talking about.
FD: So, is it part of your training that you can distinguish someone with, as you call it, a partial possession from something that is genuinely a psychological issue and/or do you hear people kind of critiquing the practice of exorcism, saying, “These days, don’t we just believe that all of that is schizophrenia or something else?”

Fr. Gary Thomas
FG: Right. And those are legitimate points. I have a team. And on my team, my exorcism team, I have a trained clinical psychologist, a psychiatrist, and a physician, all of whom are practicing Catholics, and all of whom believe in the possibility of Satan’s existence, but they’re not people who says there’s a demon under every rock or chair. And I have two clergy, two priests, who are on the team as well. So, as a person, as a priest, who’s not a therapist, much of what I do involves what we would call discernment. So, how do we discern the spirit? Well, we discern the spirit by, first of all, asking a lot of probing questions, and then, you know, some of those questions involve not just their own personal spiritual life but the things they’ve been exposed to. And then you simply pray prayers of deliverance, really as a starting point, and you encourage people if they don’t have a sacramental life to return to the sacramental life, and then you pray with them over the course of time.
Sometimes it’s very clear when people come in that there really isn’t any particular diabolical doorway that they’ve opened, but sometimes you’re drawn to conclude that, because nothing else seems to make any sense or explain away their problems. So that’s why you have therapists. Sometimes I use a therapist. Sometimes I don’t. When it’s very, very clear that — sometimes people will say that they feel that they’ve had a curse put on them and then you ask them questions in which they can’t give you any definitive answers, either the person who put the curse on them, any reason why someone would have put the curse on them, any evidence that a curse has been put on them. Then you simply conclude, “Well, no curse has been put on you. You simply have chosen to believe that.”
There are things that happen that we can’t explain. When people, though, show signs of some kind of demoniacal manifestation such as foaming at the mouth or rolling of the eyes or taking on the appearance of a serpent sometimes or speaking in a language that they have no competency in but all of a sudden do, those are the classical signs. But again, that doesn’t always come in the first go-around. You have to ask all kinds of questions. You pray over people. You get them to go back to the sacraments if they’re not already, and then, you know, you say to them after you’ve prayed over them a couple of times and there’s no manifestation, nothing whatsoever — you simply encourage them to continue in their own prayer life. What I try not to do — I try not to give people, a) false hope, and b) share things with them that I just want them to go away. So if someone really doesn’t have what appears to be any kind of diabolical intrusion, I have no problem telling them that. It isn’t that I’m looking for more people to come and see me. You’re there to try to help people, and sometimes they’re just reassured that what they thought was, wasn’t.
FD: In the way you go, perhaps, to an oncologist and he says, “No, you don’t have cancer.”
FG: That’s correct.
On my team, my exorcism team, I have a trained clinical psychologist, a psychiatrist, and a physician, all of whom are practicing Catholics, and all of whom believe in the possibility of Satan’s existence, but they’re not people who says there’s a demon under every rock or chair.
FD: … I’m just wondering about how much of your time as a priest is devoted to this. Are people knocking on your door every day? Or, do you do this once a month or something?
FG: I would say probably 15 percent of my day, although not every day, but probably on average, at least 15 percent of my week is spent on this. So probably 15 percent of a 40-hour week, probably six hours of my week some weeks, maybe not so much other weeks. I just finished ministering to a person just before I came over here to wait for your phone call. And I exorcised a man on Monday and exorcised somebody else on Friday, and they were long sessions.
FD: Now, tell us about you as a priest, you as a believer. When you’re talking about something like that, is there some sort of prayer for yourself after you’ve been in contact with such evil? Is there part of the ritual or some sort of after words, or do you just run to hang out in the Blessed Sacrament or something? [Laughs.]
FG: Well, there’s protection. There’s a protection prayer that I pray — and then an authority prayer that I pray over the person — but the protection prayer is for the person, anyone else who is in the room and myself. And then the authority prayer is to take authority in the name of Christ over the demons and then you begin — and again, whether it’s the formal right or whether it is just deliverance prayers, this is just standard operating for me. So at the very beginning you pray protection prayers.
FD: So, how has this affected your faith, let’s say?
FG: Well, I mean, before I took on this role I certainly believed in the reality of Satan. I think, now that I’ve been in this ministry, I’ve been — I’ve never had a doubt — but anybody who has a doubt can simply come and see what I’ve seen at times and then maybe they won’t have doubts either. But, I think one thing it has done — it is a profoundly healing type of ministry. The people who come to me, in one way or another they all have — whether it’s something diabolical or whether it’s psychological, these are mostly people who are enduring great suffering.
FD: And I would imagine, thanks to your ministry you have been part of some success stories, some people who are really genuinely freer?
FG: Yes, I would say, at times. But, it’s really Christ who’s the exorcist. It’s really Christ who’s the exorcist and I’m the vessel through whom Christ works. It’s incredibly important that in my role — and I learned this when I was in the course in Rome — that the exorcist always remain a truly humble prayerful person, because when you begin to see how the prayers you use agitate demons and sometimes deliver people from them, human nature being what it is can sometimes bloat — and Satan is also part of that in the bloating of — the exorcist’s ego in ways that can sometimes really assist the exorcist in losing his own effectiveness, cause he thinks that he’s the one responsible, but it’s really Christ.
FD: And, then they right a book about you, and that doesn’t help the ego.
FG: Well, again, I haven’t let any of this get bigger than it is…
It is a profoundly healing type of ministry. The people who come to me… whether it’s something diabolical or whether it’s psychological, these are mostly people who are enduring great suffering.
FD: God bless you. [Laughs.]
FG: Even the movie that’s hopefully going to come out. The book — again, Matt wrote the book to really help educate the average Catholic and the average person about what the Roman Catholic Church is trying to do in this area, and I think he actually — and I’m not saying this to toot my own horn — I do think it’s a good read, and it is very informative, and kind of has a textbook feel, told in a story form. And I think there’s a lot of really good information in there. The book was sent to every bishop in the United States by my request with a letter from me, and every rector of every seminary in the U.S. with a letter from me. So I communicated with every rector and every bishop in the U.S., encouraging them, a) to train an exorcist, which is what John Paul II asked us before he died, and b) to help the seminary rectors begin to take this on in formation because there’s very, very few priests who have any exposure to this.
FD: …It sounds like you are a happy, healthy priest, and you’ve got just a new role in your life.
FG: I hope I’m happy and healthy. I think of myself as. The happiness is just a fleeting moment but more and more I find this more satisfying and meaningful.
FD: So, it’s a ministry that you would recommend to priests?
FG: Well, I think, to the right priests. I got into it providentially. I think a lot of guys today have the inclination to do this but sometimes it’s a matter of a) having the confidence, and b) recognizing that you don’t have to be afraid of the demons. You have to respect them but you don’t have to be afraid.
FD: And have you been scared?
FG: No, I’ve never been afraid.
FD: Really?
FG: No. Never.
FD: Interesting.
FG: And, the exorcist gets attacked, but I’m not afraid. And it’s got to be a grace, because most people I know, and most priests I know, want nothing to do with it.
FD: Well, Father Gary, God bless you. This is a needed service in the church, because as you have pointed out earlier, there’s plenty of evil out there, we don’t have to look too far to find it, and hopefully your book, in the hands of all the bishops and the seminaries, will maybe get it a little more well known.
FG: I hope so.
FD: Well, thanks for joining us on the Busted Halo Show.
FG: Thanks, Father.
(Originally aired: 10/29/09)
frpope
Where is the rest of this interview with Fr. Gary
newcovenantjournal
🤗 This film examines what popular culture takes as truth and corrects misconceptions. It also examines many of the questions that occur to any logical person when faced with the idea of demons and possession in modern times. A very good film, I really enjoyed watching it.
If you're interested to lean more about evil and demonic possession, watch a real video on an exorcism bit.ly/cwG3fP . Listen …More
🤗 This film examines what popular culture takes as truth and corrects misconceptions. It also examines many of the questions that occur to any logical person when faced with the idea of demons and possession in modern times. A very good film, I really enjoyed watching it.

If you're interested to lean more about evil and demonic possession, watch a real video on an exorcism bit.ly/cwG3fP . Listen also to prominent Catholic theologian and exorcist Fr. Malachi Martin on The Nature Of Evil, Exorcism & Possession bit.ly/bZqbrb .Additionally you can also watch this documentary alturl.com/ctzmm showing a real exorcism in the Philippines.
Irapuato
Interview With San Jose Diocesan Exorcist
By Genevieve Pollock
SARATOGA, California, JAN. 20, 2011 (Zenit.org).- Jan. 28 is the release date for a new movie about exorcism and faith, which is based on the story of Father Gary Thomas, official exorcist of San Jose, California.
ZENIT spoke with Father Thomas about his call to the ministry of exorcism, his experiences over the past years in working …More
Interview With San Jose Diocesan Exorcist

By Genevieve Pollock
SARATOGA, California, JAN. 20, 2011 (Zenit.org).- Jan. 28 is the release date for a new movie about exorcism and faith, which is based on the story of Father Gary Thomas, official exorcist of San Jose, California.
ZENIT spoke with Father Thomas about his call to the ministry of exorcism, his experiences over the past years in working with people seeking his help, and the prevalence of demonic influences in our society today.
The movie, "The Rite," starring Anthony Hopkins and distributed by Warner Brothers Pictures, focuses on themes of faith, as evidenced by the promotional tagline: "You can only defeat it when you believe."
It is based on the real experiences of Father Thomas, as recorded in the book, "The Rite: The Making of a Modern Exorcist," by Matt Baglio. Both the author and the priest, who serves as pastor of Sacred Heart Parish in Saratoga, were invited onto the set to consult in the making of the movie.
Hollywood producers are not the only ones with a renewed interest in this topic; last November the U.S. Catholic Conference of Bishops sponsored a two-day conference on exorcism, which took place in Baltimore just prior to the fall assembly. Some 56 prelates and 66 priests signed up for the course.
In this interview, Father Thomas described his experiences on the set of the movie, and explained the relevance of this ministry today.
Part 2 of this interview will be published Friday.
ZENIT: Could you tell us about the scene on the set of the movie?
Father Thomas: I was on the set for a week with the actors, and I gave them input in terms of what the reaction to an exorcism and what the manifestations look like. The author of the book was on the set for most of the shoot.
For example, I taught Anthony Hopkins how he has to bless left to right and not right to left, and all those little things. The producer Beau Flynn and the director Mikael Håfström really wanted this to be supremely accurate, and I do too.
It's really a movie about faith. It's not a gory movie or a horror movie; there is no green pea soup or heads spinning off of bodies.
I've not seen a lot of exorcism movies; there was one that was just out about three months ago called "The Last Exorcism," which actually was very good. And "The Exorcism of Emily Rose" came out in 2005, which was done by New Line Cinema as well and actually done by the same producer. But I think this one has a whole different take to it, because it's really a movie about faith.
ZENIT: Most people get their ideas of exorcism from what they've seen in movies and on television. What would you say is different about the way Hollywood portrays exorcism and the way you've experienced it?
Father Thomas: I think in many cases Hollywood is basing everything on sensationalism, which I'm hoping this movie is not about.
Exorcism, rather, is a ritual set of prayers that command the demon to cease its attempt to inflict harm, suffering, pain and total possession of a human being, and to depart.
There are some dramatic manifestations that I've encountered, but often times what Hollywood tries to do is exacerbate the dramatic and add to it in the name of entertainment, when quite honestly this is not a topic to entertain people with.
Is there a dramatic side to personified evil? Yes, there is.
Satan or his minions attempt to intimidate human beings and to cause them to lose heart altogether, but with the help of Christ we have nothing to worry about. We have nothing to fear.
Hollywood wants to play out the dramatic, and because they've never really seen exorcisms they're just envisioning. I've had a number of media outlets contact me with the request to film one, and I've said no, because I have no guarantee and no reassurance that they are going to get it right.
I also say, you're not going to objectify someone's suffering in this way. Because then it becomes more of a fodder for entertainment rather than a way of becoming educated and informed about the real dark underbelly of the world.
ZENIT: How necessary is a ministry of exorcism in our country these days? Are these cases of demonic possession very frequent?
Father Thomas: The ministry is essential.
It is not because we are having so many cases of demonic possession. What we are seeing -- speaking from my experience -- is that we are all, not just the exorcists, but priests in general, having a lot more people coming to us about matters that are of this realm. Many of the issues people are coming with are actually not demonic; they are more related to mental health.
Sometimes people ask, "Why now?" And I say, because now there are more Catholics who are involved in paganism and idolatry, so there are a lot of people who are opening a lot of doors to the diabolical.
The occult is all about power. Now the occult is not synonymous with the Satanic, but it is a doorway.
There are also more and more Catholics, and people in general, now in this country who are involved in New Age things. With the opening of doorways to the New Age and the occult, you do not know what is behind that door; you do not know what you are tapping into most of the time.
So, are there more cases of possession? In five years, I've exorcised five people, whom I do believe had a demonic attachment. And I've prayed over others who also I think have a demonic attachment, but I've not done exorcisms with them.
But what is becoming very rampant is that more and more people are involved in pagan idolatry. Some of it is structured and formal, and some of it is not.
This is coupled with issues that have to do with sexual abuse; 80% of the people who come to me have been sexually abused. That is a soul wound, and a doorway for a demon.
If the soul wounds are coupled with either heavy drug use, heavy sexual perversions, sexual abuse or physical abuse, usually by a parent, a sibling or an extended family member, it becomes a recipe for an invitation for a demon.
It is not like demons just show up. You have to invite them in, or someone else invites them in for you.
If a person has been sexual abused it does not mean that they are going to have a demonic attachment. What I am saying is that when people have been sexually abused they become incredibly vulnerable to that possibility.
Then if they get involved in matters that have to do with paganism and idolatry, like the occult or things of the Satanic, the bar goes way up, the chances go up. Because demons are always looking for human beings who either have no relationships or a variety of broken relationships.
ZENIT: If Catholic laity find themselves in this situation, how would they guard against the possibility of demonic activity in their lives or how would they protect a loved one who they are worried about?
Father Thomas: There are a variety of ordinary means.
People say to me all the time, "I don't want this to happen to me." I tell them that as long as you have a faith life, a prayer life and a sacramental life, the chances of this occurring are very nil.
If you have a life that involves God -- and for a Catholic if you have a sacramental life that involves the Eucharist and reconciliation with regularity -- and your life is lived in the spirit of the will of God and the providence of God, you do not have any serious consideration to be concerned about.
It is when people are involved in the spirit world, which is rarely deliberate. It is usually out of curiosity, of when they think they can get a leg up on things.
For example, it can be people who get involved in very unorthodox types of meditation. I'm not talking about Ignatian spirituality or having a spiritual director who helps you learn how to meditate.
I'm talking about people who go off to Buddhist camps, or people who are involved in spiritism, where you do not know what they are involved in, and you do not know what kind of techniques people are using to somehow deal with the realm beyond this one. It is much more about stuff that is really not known or tested, or sometimes it is known and tested by people who really have the wrong focus. It is not about a relationship with God; it is about a relationship with self.
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On the Net:
"The Rite: The Making of a Modern Exorcist" Book: www.amazon.com/…/0385522703
www.zenit.org/article-31515