ACL writes:

4. "I believe that God has a plan for the homosexual, a plan which involves much pastoral activity."

Unless your getting some "true inspired words" from heaven, one would have to say you are out of your mind. The gays have had free reign of "pastoral activity" for the past 50yrs, that is why they have no more vocations!!!!

ACL...I use to work with active homosexuals. Those days I was quite naive about such things as homosexuality. There was one guy who sat next to me and would talk with his partner almost daily on the phone. We got along great to where I was invited to their home. They were not the only homosexuals that I knew. And hear this, pls! Their DISDAIN and hate for what the Church represents, teaches, especially in regards to homosexuality being an Abomination, Unnatural and Sinful caused them and many like them to hate the Catholic Church and did not even want to hear anything about the BIBLE. They have caused such great ills within our church and what they teach to even the grade schoolers about this subject. And what did Our Lord say about anyone who should harm the children? I believe I heard something about Our Lord making a whip out of rope to chastize those who were desecrating His Father's House. Pray for their conversion!

@kfarley - Huh???? So you would destroy a vocation to the priesthood because of potential difficulties? Who calls to the priesthood, man or God? Who are we to judge which mortal man is good enough for God and which one is not? This is why Holy Mother Church, while now VERY vigilant, and availing Herself of all the tools necessary to DISCERN a vocation, She is not deaf to God's voice.

Onthe other hand, we see in the old code of Canon Law that a man with a speech impediment could not be a priest or deacon. We also see, evidence of old canons which preclude all men who have taught or were part of heretical movements. BUT, that all came form the Magesterium of Holy Mother Church, not an individual person's judgement.

As it stands now, the Church does NOT exclude the homosexual, but offers him/her the care she/he needs. Unfortunately, Bishops have made things so dire, by not remedying the problems as they ocurred. Therefore, I put alot of the problem squarely in the shoulders of the Bishops who just ignored this problem, not to mention the evil practices of paediophila!! These problems run consistanly throughout the church's history - even before Vatican II and the so called "liberal movement".

I think decisive action MUST be made which would both allow God's grace to call whomever He pleases, AND take care of the cancerous problem in our time.

First of all a homosexual is not supposed to go into the Catholic priesthood specifically because (and we see evidence almost daily on the news) it causes multitudes of problems spiritually, monetarily, and the list is endless to the damage that has been caused, is caused and will be caused in the future because of homosexual individuals in the priesthood. Not allowing homosexuals to become priests is not a bad thing and in fact is a time tested practice that has been proven to be good for the Church.

@Rope - There you go again confusing 'being' and 'action'. When I say that they are "good", I mean they are intrinsically good as a creature made by Almighty God. Their deeds, however, as you have described are utterly wrong and destroys the Kingdom of God rather than promote it.
It seems that we have honed the discussion to exclude homosexuals who are celebate. Therefore, are we only discussing active agressive homosexuals?

@kfarley, To take your point to its logicall conclusion, a bipolar seminarian, taking his medication, would also present a similar impedement to clerical ordination. This is because one would never know when he might go manic and kill someone or go into catatonic episode. However, one never really meets or hears of any.....even though I know two priests who are seriously bipolar, but take their medication, and are excellent pastors and Liturgists. Not to mention, their Masses are quite full on a weekend!

It is best to not have homosexuals involved in the priesthood period because of the gravity of the problem this presents. Priests who are already ordained and living a celibate and pure life and provide good example free of scandal who have homosexual tendencies should be allowed to remain priests. Homosexuals who are now studying for the priesthood should however not be ordained because the homosexual condition is something that is debilitating many times to the individual if not now it still could cause problems not needed in the church at a later time.

ACL.. Are homosexuals good when they promote same sex attraction in our schools, Are they good when they are actively living a homosexual lifestyle, ignoring what the Church says about this, and Even, yes, (I have witnessed it) are distributing communion to the people? Is a murderer a good person? Is a terrorist a good person? Could they change, yes, with the help of God's grace, but you continue to sugar-coat homosexuals as all being good. Homosexuals living an active homosexual lifestyle HATES what the church teaches about the homosexuality being Sinful!

I do not condone lynch-mobbing or witch hunts. But the language of some posters here IS indicative of this. I say the following:

1. Homosexuals are good; they need help, both Spiritual and Psychological.

2. Homosexual acts are intrinsically evil, disordered and reduce the human being to the status of brute beast - not in keeping with the Gospels at all.

3. In addressing the problems in the church re homosexual clerics who choose to act on their homosexual tendancies, MUST be de-frocked and recieve the required help.

I see homosexuals changed every day in the student body at University. Some begin very overt and promiscuous, then by their third year are more faithful to church than most of us heterosexuals!

4. I believe that God has a plan for the homosexual, a plan which involves much pastoral activity.

Now, all in the clerical state are called to celebacy, therefore, to deny a seriously minded homosexual ordination solely on the basis of his sexuality is wrong. This is why many seminaries now engage in heavy psychological and spiritual assesments over a long period of time to alliviate all doubt regarding any future problems.

I think the problem has had too much "understanding" without understanding what really needs to be done about the homosexual issue in the church. One of the priests originally from Chicago who went to the center I worked at is no longer a priest (Thank God for this)-he did not want to change and was actually given a severance from his diocese and was defrocked and permanently relieved of his priesthood. This man now works at a thrift store here in Rochester Minnesota. An active homosexual has a mental disorder-up until 25 years ago the American Psychological Association listed homosexuality as a mental disorder-now because of declining morality and the liberalness of the APA it is no longer listed as such. A homosexual is not able in most cases to be an effective priest because it is both a spiritual and a mental disorder that can only be overcome by great spirituality lacking in so many homosexual priests. A homosexual should not and is not supposed to be ordained. A homosexual many times suffers from untreatable inclinations to act out sexually just as a pedophile does and if a man has both of these tendancies the prognosis is virtually hopeless for sexual abstinance for the individual.

ACL.. you keep writing the same thing with regards to this subject, time and time again, it has been reiterated over and over that Homosexuality is a SIN. A Grevious SIN. That is all we are saying. You seem quite on the defensive whenever this subject appears, which I find in a way, somewhat interesting. Homosexual or not, anyone or any group of peoples who descent from the true teachings of Our Faith, and what is written in Holy Scriptures must be exposed, and there are plenty of them within society and the church.

@kfarley - Indeed! No one is underestimating the problem. But, a balanced approach is prefered, rather than a 'witch hunt' approach which is manifestly not Christian.

Now, as the CCC states, the homosexual MUST get phychological and spiritual care. I do NOT believe that embracing their homosexuality as part of WHO they are, involves encouraging the sexual urges by means of DVDs etc. However, as a human being one MUST embrace eveything that makes up ones humanity, this includes ones sexuality (albeit disordered in the case of the homosexual).

AFTER, acknowledging it as real and part of oneself, then the therapy and prayer may begin. I know this from actual experience with students who are cared for by Mercy Sisters. They begin very overt and very promiscuous in their first year, but by the third year they are quite celebate and even more faithful to the Church than many of us heterosexuals who tend to just smile at a male colleague's flirtation with a female student, BUT are volcanic in emotive disapproval if it were a same sex thing. BOTH are wrong....

The problem is many homosexual priests DO promote the lifestyle. I know in working in a treatment center for Catholic priests (that I recently left because of the center's pro-homosexual agenda!) that there are a very large population of homosexual priests that flaunt the homosexual lifestyle. These priests at the center were provided with literature from Hazeldon Treatment publications that openly provide meditations that teach the priests to embrace their homosexuality as part of who they are. Priests at the center were even allowed to rent pro-gay DVD Hollywood productions for their weekend entertainment. The gay problem within the Church cannot be underestimated-it is a huge problem!

@ACL...Where is your proof that this study is in "profound error"?

ACL writes: "However, one needs to remember the homosexual priests who do not promote, practice or support that lifestyle, must NOT be condemned."

ACL...do you know any homosexual priests by name that do not promote, practice or support this SINFUL lifestyle? If so, it would be interesting to see the numbers in comparison to those WHO DO! You seem to try to evade the fact whenever the subject of "homosexuality" comes us, that it is according to Holy Scripture, an abomination before the Lord, a Perversity worthy of death. And yet you continue to defend it, even within the priesthood. I await your response to my questions above.

Hey Blackchallice! Mate, one cannot help but wonder "wither cometh the fool" in studies like this one! A situation wherein a flawed premise leads to logical conclusion which is in-and-of-itself profoundly rediculous. Yet again, American psychology adrift in the storm of paganism. I tell you, NO Roman Catholic psychologist worth their salt would even begin with the premises these psychologists did!! Far less to arrive at such an obscene conclusion.

However, we shall see what God does about this!

Quite! The study is in profound error!

However, one needs to remember the homosexual priests who do not promote, practice or support that lifestyle, must NOT be condemned!!

Plus how many homosexual priests/bishops in the Church put normal young men off their calling to the priesthood in the seminaries. How many young aspirants were shocked and disgusted by what was being taught to them in the seminaries. How many were advised they had no vocation because they were too "narrow minded" when questioning the unchaste teachings and behaviour in the seminaries - Maynooth comes to mind. - Blessings - Rene