“Satan is alive and well and very active in the Vatican”
Transcript of an Interview with John Smeaton, director of the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children (SPUC) and of Voice of the Family on the on-going Synod on the Family.
Video-Interview: “Satan is alive and well and very active in the Vatican”
Gloria.tv: What impression have you gained from the Synod on the Family?
John Smeaton: I think it's the most worrying time in Church history. Prof. Roberto de Mattei has argued, that it is possibly the very worst time ever in Church history, because what we are seeing is a working document - the Instrumentum laboris - which Pope Francis has said is the basis for discussion in the Family Synod, which appears systematically to be destroying the moral law in relation to family, in relation to human sexuality, and the sanctity of life. What could be more disturbing than that?
Can you give examples of how the Instrumentum Laboris destroys the moral law?
John Smeaton: Certainly. In doing so, can I just add, that I say these things in the spirit of someone who is seeking to act as a child of the Church. Canon 212 calls upon the laity to understand their right and duty to speak out according to their expertise and competence on matters that are of profound concern in the communication of faith and morals to their sacred pastors and they must do so with reverence and so on. So anything I'm saying to you now has been communicated already to the fathers of the Synod and to every president of every bishops’ conference in the world.
What the Instrumentum laboris does, for example, is to propose a completely false understanding between conscience and the moral law in the matter of contraception. We know from Casti connubii, we know from Humanae vitae, that every contraceptive act before, during or after sexual intercourse is impermissible. The unitive and the procreative dimensions of the sexual act are inseparable. Pope Paul VI goes on to explain that whereas it is sometimes permissible to choose a lesser evil, where you have something that is completely intrinsically evil, it is never permissible to do that evil so that good may come of it - referring to contraceptive acts. That has been completely undermined in the Instrumentum laboris.
The Instrumentum Laboris discusses artificial methods of reproduction without in any way making reference to the teaching of the Church, without in any way making reference to the fact that In-vitro-Fertilisation for example has cost the lives of countless human embryos. It just discusses it as a sort of fact of live.
It talks about the indissolubility of marriage as an ideal, not something for "the normal Catholic" - if you like - which is a completely false understanding of the message of salvation which is for everybody. Christ did not say it was for a select few. It is pharisaical to suggest that.
And it - for example - talks about positive elements in cohabitation. Now for fathers in this day and age who are struggling to bring up their children to understand the beauty of chastity, the beauty of giving yourself to your marriage partner and of reserving the gift of human sexuality to marriage, what kind of message is that? It makes parents liars in the eyes of their children: "Look even your sacred pastors don't agree with the position you are taking."
It proposes a position that is contrary to Church teaching on parents’ rights, because it says that parents and the family is not the only place where sexuality must be taught to children. This is completely wrong. The Church teaches that parents are the primary educators of their children. And they must decide whether or not to seek outside help. And if outside help is sought it must be under their strict supervision. It other words: Parents must know exactly what is being told to their children - beforehand. This is a fantastic betrayal of families.
Do the bishops not know Catholic teaching or are they evil?
John Smeaton: It's not for me to judge who is evil but I can say that the evil consequences of this are the worst consequences that I can imagine happening at any period in human history. Let me explain.
In the past 40 years it has been estimated that there had been between 1,5 and 1 3/4 billion unborn children killed in abortion. This is a figure that is arrived at by the pro-abortion lobby and by the pro-life lobby. So it is considered that that's the case. Now according to research between 150 million and a billion people have been killed in all the wars in human history. Imagine that, the Holocaust of the last forty years of children in the womb, children whom Christ regarded as requiring special reference: "He who does this, scandalizes a little child, must have a millstone around his neck and thrown into the sea."
That's what I think should happen with some of these Synod-fathers according to Christ's teaching, because not only is contraception which, let's be honest, every contraceptive drug and devise other than condoms can cause an early abortion, and quite apart from that: the evidence shows that it is the foundation of the abortion culture. So with this false understanding in the Instrumentum laboris between the moral law and conscience we are likely to see the renewal of the holocaust. And the bishops will be primarily responsible for that not the Planned Parenthood Federation. The bishops.
Why?
John Smeaton: Why? Because, if the shepherd leaves his flock to be ravaged by the wolves, who is responsible in the eyes of God - more, the wolves or the shepherd for abandoning his flock? I believe the bishops, in proposing this, will be responsible for a renewal of the Holocaust, the worst human Holocaust in human history.
And: They are leaving parents utterly undefended. In terms of the big birth-control organisations pushing contraception especially in Africa, but also in my area, in my children schools. And this has happened with the cooperation of the local bishops. This is all going to be renewed by this downgrading of the rights of parents. This is pure wicked. I cannot judge whether the bishops are wicked. That is not for me to judge.
What outcome do you expect from the Synod?
John Smeaton: I think that - well, likely to see - immense confusion continuing in the Church. I think we are going to see courageous actions on the part of individual Synod fathers such as we have seen, from Cardinal Sarah for example, who has talked quite openly about the manipulation of the Synod and talked quite openly about positions being proposed which are contrary to the faith. So we will see brave bishops doing that.
But the disturbing issue is that the Synod is going to be manipulated. That is quite clear from the opening press conference where Cardinal Lorenzo Baldisseri - he was the General secretary of the extraordinary Synod in 2014, where there was a virtual rebellion in the Synod hall from leading bishops all over the world led by Cardinal Pell who would not accept any longer the manipulation that was going on, and Baldisseri said: "Don't worry, there is no manipulation. There is a commission in charge - and I'm on it."
Jonathan Swift, the great satirist in the English language, couldn't have invented a better tale than the tale of the manipulation that is all set for this Synod. You should read Voice of the Family's first post from Rome to see in technically detail all of that.
The problem is therefore these arrangements are set up by Pope Francis. According to Cardinal Baldisseri all the documents up until the Instrumentum laboris were personally approved by Pope Francis. One has to add, that leading bishops have said, that these contain heretical positions. We have also known that Pope Francis has said in an interview, that the Instrumentum laboris is the basis for discussions. Again: The Instrumentum laboris contains proposals and language, which are completely contrary to the faith handed on from the apostles.
Some bishops fight for the Catholic teaching but where does the majority of the bishops stand?
John Smeaton: This is a very, very difficult question to answer and I think the most honest thing would be to say that: I don't know. So often people talk about the silent majority. One of the difficulties is that you can have bishops who believe in the truth, understand the truth, but are afraid to go against the powers that be. There is a clericalism at work here, where they are more concerned about protecting the dignity of their office than they are about defending the truth.
I think it will come down to that, whether there is a majority of bishops willing to defend the truth rather than their personal dignity and the dignity of their office. Truth has to come first. Because that's what Christ said sets us free. That is what he came to deliver. That is our job, also of the laity.
I would say one hopeful thing, if you like. Many people consider that the sorts of problems we are seeing coming to fruition in this Synod have actually been rooted back fifty years at least in Church history. And fifty years ago in Church history we saw that there were was virtually no resistance at all from people who cared about the truth of Catholic teaching when there was a rebellion against the restatement of the Churches unchanging teaching on contraception by Paul VI. There was a rebellion against him from liberals who didn't want to hear the truth about human sexuality. They wanted to conform to the modern world. There wasn't an equally strong counter resistance against them. There is now. There are growing numbers of, first of all cardinals, secondly bishops, thirdly lay people, academics, experts of different kinds, petitions to the Pope.
There was 461 parish clergy who wrote to the bishops in England and Wales and called upon them to uphold the unambiguous teaching of the Church. That was very significant, because Cardinal Vincent Nichols of Westminster was none too pleased with them. And they were none too pleased with him, because he was trying to slap them down. So it is good to see, that we do have brave pastors. People need to use discernment in seeking out these pastors and giving them support and going to them for pastoral encouragement, too.
There are persistent rumours that the Synod is manipulated by a Vatican “gay lobby” or by a shadow Synod consisting mainly of Jesuits?
John Smeaton: Oh yes, like everybody else I've heard about these things. Of course, I suppose you could argue: "Well, you always have these people who lobby for this, that and the other. That's always been the case." What has not always been the case is the curious, to put it mildly, reaction of the Vatican when these things happen.
So when you get a Polish priest coming out as it were and attacking the Church’s teaching on homosexuality, which refers to it as a grave depravity, and the Church has always taught that, what happened? The Church says, he is gonna be sacked, because he is lobbying, he is putting pressure on the Church. Huh? He is being sacked because he is putting pressure on the Church? Well, I suppose that somebody working for the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith shouldn't put pressure on the Church. Isn't he being sacked because he said something gravely contrary to the common good, gravely scandalous to little children, that according to the words of Christ - you know millstones being hung around people's necks... This is surely a matter where the Church needs to point out, this is a gravely wrong message for this priest to deliver. We are deeply shocked and he is being sacked - instead of, he is lobbying us. That is the sort of things politicians say, not pastors.
On which side is the Vatican, the side of the pro-life movement or on the side of the mainstream media?
John Smeaton: “The Vatican” is a very big term. There are many different figures in the Vatican. Unfortunately the authorities that appear to have the whip hand - as we put it in English - are those who adopt positions, which are contrary to Catholic faith and morals and the common good.
So you have Monsignor Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, for example, who is Chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, angrily sweeping aside people who object to leading pro-abortion lobbyists from the United Nations being invited to discuss, seven times in the case of Jeffrey Sachs, the Sustainable Development Goals. Sachs is a guy who was the architect of language, which is seeking to promote abortion and contraception in every country of the world, particularly Africa. Sorondo says: Oh, no, no, no, no, there is no reference to abortion and contraception in the Sustainable Development Goals. They refer to Reproductive health. Come on! SPUC (The Society for the Protection of Unborn Children) has been lobbying to the United Nations for twenty-one years. But you don't have to be an expert to know that the way the UNFPA (The United Nations Population Fund), the way Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama define Reproductive health is access to abortion and contraception. Who is he kidding? So you've got people like him.
You have this appalling situation at the Pontifical Council for the Family where they had a seminar taking place, where they had figures coming along, experts coming along talking about an acceptance in some way or another of homosexual relationships. Absolutely diabolical! It would seem: Satan is alive and well and very active in the Vatican. That's how I would put it.
Do you expect a sort of schism after the Synod?
John Smeaton: I'm not a Church historian. I don't understand what makes a schism. I do understand what makes my life and my family life difficult which is finding a way of worshipping God where I'm not going to be scandalized by what is going on in the parish with respect to the Holy Eucharist, because the target of all of this is the Holy Eucharist. Because what the dissenting bishops want is for people who are living lives of habitual mortal sin, they want people therefore who have rejected God, rejected God's laws to be able to receive the Holy Eucharist. People may say, we see that happening in our Churches all the time. Well I'm afraid very often we do see that happening in ordinary Parish churches around the country. We do have good priests too, as we have locally, who will say: "You must not come to communion unless you are in the state of grace and so on - free of mortal sin and a Catholic." These clerical gentlemen want to destroy the moral law. They want people in habitual mortal sin to be able to receive the Holy Eucharist, which is a profound desecration, the worst sort of desecration that one can be engaged in.
Would it already be a success for the Catholics, if the Synod were to produce an ambiguous document neither heretical nor clearly confirming Catholic teaching?
John Smeaton: I don't think we can talk in terms of success and failure. I think we have to pray for a great outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon God's people. We've got to pray that the labourers who appear to be so few, grow enormously. I'm encouraged because Voice of the Family last year - this coalition of 26 organisations from five continents around the world, pro-life, pro-family organisations - we were more or less alone in Rome last year. This year there is a lot of other groups who are active and who are making statements and so on. We've got to pray for that, too.
I think, ambiguity is just really going to mean that we are going to see the further destruction of the innocence of children, the further destruction of Catholic life throughout the world. The most vulnerable Catholics are the ones who are going to be the worst affected. I'm thinking here in particular of families in Africa, who thank God have by large got bishops who are really standing up to this evil agenda at work at the Synod. It's an evil agenda, that's in the Instrumentum laboris.
The African bishops put out a very strong statement, attacking the Sustainable Development Goals, saying: "Keep this filth away, keep your abortions and your contraception away from our children." They know that their people are particularly vulnerably because aid is made dependent upon acceptance of contraception, acceptance of abortion, acceptance of legalisation of same-sex-relationships.
So if the Vatican sends out an ambiguous note, we had one [African] prelate tell us last year, that he and his colleagues of different faith groups had gone to the government and said: "No you can't possibly introduce same sex legislation. It's against the moral codes of every faith, it's against the natural law, etc." And the government accepted that. But when the Interim report was published last year, which talked about valuing the orientation of homosexuals, valuing mortal sin, valuing acts of grave depravity, he got a text from one of the politicians in his country saying: "We won't be able to hold out any longer." And they didn't. Ambiguity in Vatican document has casualties. And the main casualty actually is the innocence of children. Not even the destruction of human life, which will be colossal. It's the innocence of children, my children, my grand children.
What are you doing to influence the Synod?
John Smeaton: I'm here in Fatima just to spend a couple of days and to share with pro-life colleagues here our experience of the Synod. While being here I heard that a very prominent bishop from somewhere in the world, I won't say who and where, sat down at dinner. My colleagues were having their meal in the evening. And he sat down with them. They talked with him. They had a discussion about the natural law. He was deeply engaged in what they had to say. It helped him. It encouraged him.
We are telling the bishops who we know are seeking to defend our families: "We are here for you. We have some expertise on these documents that we can share with you." Some of them are so busy going out into the bush, pastoring to the millions of Catholics in their diocese. They don't necessary have time to weighed through all this material. So they value the analysis that we are able to provide for them and the selection of materials that we can provide them with, give them a platform perhaps. Give them the chance to meet each other, because one of the ways in which the Synod is apparently being manipulated is that there is very, very little General Assembly, where they all meet each other. They've been divided into groups. And Cardinal Baldisseri would not answer the question on what basis they've been divided into groups. There is considerable concern, that it has been done in order to keep good people away from each other and so on and make sure that there are dominating figures who hold heterodox positions in those little groups. We can provide them the opportunity to breath, to discuss. We all need that in doing our work and in standing up.
One of the things also we can do is by our witness and by our daily prayer. We meet every day for the rosary at 9 o'clock. Maybe that's the most important work we do. We can do that anywhere. But then we go on and we have our meeting, and discuss the day's events and do our action. But at 9 o'clock Rome time, anywhere in the world, you know, particularly if you can join us in prayer. Perhaps say the rosary together at that time. That would be a wonderfully fruitful thing.
Thank you.
Video-Interview: “Satan is alive and well and very active in the Vatican”
Gloria.tv: What impression have you gained from the Synod on the Family?
John Smeaton: I think it's the most worrying time in Church history. Prof. Roberto de Mattei has argued, that it is possibly the very worst time ever in Church history, because what we are seeing is a working document - the Instrumentum laboris - which Pope Francis has said is the basis for discussion in the Family Synod, which appears systematically to be destroying the moral law in relation to family, in relation to human sexuality, and the sanctity of life. What could be more disturbing than that?
Can you give examples of how the Instrumentum Laboris destroys the moral law?
John Smeaton: Certainly. In doing so, can I just add, that I say these things in the spirit of someone who is seeking to act as a child of the Church. Canon 212 calls upon the laity to understand their right and duty to speak out according to their expertise and competence on matters that are of profound concern in the communication of faith and morals to their sacred pastors and they must do so with reverence and so on. So anything I'm saying to you now has been communicated already to the fathers of the Synod and to every president of every bishops’ conference in the world.
What the Instrumentum laboris does, for example, is to propose a completely false understanding between conscience and the moral law in the matter of contraception. We know from Casti connubii, we know from Humanae vitae, that every contraceptive act before, during or after sexual intercourse is impermissible. The unitive and the procreative dimensions of the sexual act are inseparable. Pope Paul VI goes on to explain that whereas it is sometimes permissible to choose a lesser evil, where you have something that is completely intrinsically evil, it is never permissible to do that evil so that good may come of it - referring to contraceptive acts. That has been completely undermined in the Instrumentum laboris.
The Instrumentum Laboris discusses artificial methods of reproduction without in any way making reference to the teaching of the Church, without in any way making reference to the fact that In-vitro-Fertilisation for example has cost the lives of countless human embryos. It just discusses it as a sort of fact of live.
It talks about the indissolubility of marriage as an ideal, not something for "the normal Catholic" - if you like - which is a completely false understanding of the message of salvation which is for everybody. Christ did not say it was for a select few. It is pharisaical to suggest that.
And it - for example - talks about positive elements in cohabitation. Now for fathers in this day and age who are struggling to bring up their children to understand the beauty of chastity, the beauty of giving yourself to your marriage partner and of reserving the gift of human sexuality to marriage, what kind of message is that? It makes parents liars in the eyes of their children: "Look even your sacred pastors don't agree with the position you are taking."
It proposes a position that is contrary to Church teaching on parents’ rights, because it says that parents and the family is not the only place where sexuality must be taught to children. This is completely wrong. The Church teaches that parents are the primary educators of their children. And they must decide whether or not to seek outside help. And if outside help is sought it must be under their strict supervision. It other words: Parents must know exactly what is being told to their children - beforehand. This is a fantastic betrayal of families.
Do the bishops not know Catholic teaching or are they evil?
John Smeaton: It's not for me to judge who is evil but I can say that the evil consequences of this are the worst consequences that I can imagine happening at any period in human history. Let me explain.
In the past 40 years it has been estimated that there had been between 1,5 and 1 3/4 billion unborn children killed in abortion. This is a figure that is arrived at by the pro-abortion lobby and by the pro-life lobby. So it is considered that that's the case. Now according to research between 150 million and a billion people have been killed in all the wars in human history. Imagine that, the Holocaust of the last forty years of children in the womb, children whom Christ regarded as requiring special reference: "He who does this, scandalizes a little child, must have a millstone around his neck and thrown into the sea."
That's what I think should happen with some of these Synod-fathers according to Christ's teaching, because not only is contraception which, let's be honest, every contraceptive drug and devise other than condoms can cause an early abortion, and quite apart from that: the evidence shows that it is the foundation of the abortion culture. So with this false understanding in the Instrumentum laboris between the moral law and conscience we are likely to see the renewal of the holocaust. And the bishops will be primarily responsible for that not the Planned Parenthood Federation. The bishops.
Why?
John Smeaton: Why? Because, if the shepherd leaves his flock to be ravaged by the wolves, who is responsible in the eyes of God - more, the wolves or the shepherd for abandoning his flock? I believe the bishops, in proposing this, will be responsible for a renewal of the Holocaust, the worst human Holocaust in human history.
And: They are leaving parents utterly undefended. In terms of the big birth-control organisations pushing contraception especially in Africa, but also in my area, in my children schools. And this has happened with the cooperation of the local bishops. This is all going to be renewed by this downgrading of the rights of parents. This is pure wicked. I cannot judge whether the bishops are wicked. That is not for me to judge.
What outcome do you expect from the Synod?
John Smeaton: I think that - well, likely to see - immense confusion continuing in the Church. I think we are going to see courageous actions on the part of individual Synod fathers such as we have seen, from Cardinal Sarah for example, who has talked quite openly about the manipulation of the Synod and talked quite openly about positions being proposed which are contrary to the faith. So we will see brave bishops doing that.
But the disturbing issue is that the Synod is going to be manipulated. That is quite clear from the opening press conference where Cardinal Lorenzo Baldisseri - he was the General secretary of the extraordinary Synod in 2014, where there was a virtual rebellion in the Synod hall from leading bishops all over the world led by Cardinal Pell who would not accept any longer the manipulation that was going on, and Baldisseri said: "Don't worry, there is no manipulation. There is a commission in charge - and I'm on it."
Jonathan Swift, the great satirist in the English language, couldn't have invented a better tale than the tale of the manipulation that is all set for this Synod. You should read Voice of the Family's first post from Rome to see in technically detail all of that.
The problem is therefore these arrangements are set up by Pope Francis. According to Cardinal Baldisseri all the documents up until the Instrumentum laboris were personally approved by Pope Francis. One has to add, that leading bishops have said, that these contain heretical positions. We have also known that Pope Francis has said in an interview, that the Instrumentum laboris is the basis for discussions. Again: The Instrumentum laboris contains proposals and language, which are completely contrary to the faith handed on from the apostles.
Some bishops fight for the Catholic teaching but where does the majority of the bishops stand?
John Smeaton: This is a very, very difficult question to answer and I think the most honest thing would be to say that: I don't know. So often people talk about the silent majority. One of the difficulties is that you can have bishops who believe in the truth, understand the truth, but are afraid to go against the powers that be. There is a clericalism at work here, where they are more concerned about protecting the dignity of their office than they are about defending the truth.
I think it will come down to that, whether there is a majority of bishops willing to defend the truth rather than their personal dignity and the dignity of their office. Truth has to come first. Because that's what Christ said sets us free. That is what he came to deliver. That is our job, also of the laity.
I would say one hopeful thing, if you like. Many people consider that the sorts of problems we are seeing coming to fruition in this Synod have actually been rooted back fifty years at least in Church history. And fifty years ago in Church history we saw that there were was virtually no resistance at all from people who cared about the truth of Catholic teaching when there was a rebellion against the restatement of the Churches unchanging teaching on contraception by Paul VI. There was a rebellion against him from liberals who didn't want to hear the truth about human sexuality. They wanted to conform to the modern world. There wasn't an equally strong counter resistance against them. There is now. There are growing numbers of, first of all cardinals, secondly bishops, thirdly lay people, academics, experts of different kinds, petitions to the Pope.
There was 461 parish clergy who wrote to the bishops in England and Wales and called upon them to uphold the unambiguous teaching of the Church. That was very significant, because Cardinal Vincent Nichols of Westminster was none too pleased with them. And they were none too pleased with him, because he was trying to slap them down. So it is good to see, that we do have brave pastors. People need to use discernment in seeking out these pastors and giving them support and going to them for pastoral encouragement, too.
There are persistent rumours that the Synod is manipulated by a Vatican “gay lobby” or by a shadow Synod consisting mainly of Jesuits?
John Smeaton: Oh yes, like everybody else I've heard about these things. Of course, I suppose you could argue: "Well, you always have these people who lobby for this, that and the other. That's always been the case." What has not always been the case is the curious, to put it mildly, reaction of the Vatican when these things happen.
So when you get a Polish priest coming out as it were and attacking the Church’s teaching on homosexuality, which refers to it as a grave depravity, and the Church has always taught that, what happened? The Church says, he is gonna be sacked, because he is lobbying, he is putting pressure on the Church. Huh? He is being sacked because he is putting pressure on the Church? Well, I suppose that somebody working for the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith shouldn't put pressure on the Church. Isn't he being sacked because he said something gravely contrary to the common good, gravely scandalous to little children, that according to the words of Christ - you know millstones being hung around people's necks... This is surely a matter where the Church needs to point out, this is a gravely wrong message for this priest to deliver. We are deeply shocked and he is being sacked - instead of, he is lobbying us. That is the sort of things politicians say, not pastors.
On which side is the Vatican, the side of the pro-life movement or on the side of the mainstream media?
John Smeaton: “The Vatican” is a very big term. There are many different figures in the Vatican. Unfortunately the authorities that appear to have the whip hand - as we put it in English - are those who adopt positions, which are contrary to Catholic faith and morals and the common good.
So you have Monsignor Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, for example, who is Chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, angrily sweeping aside people who object to leading pro-abortion lobbyists from the United Nations being invited to discuss, seven times in the case of Jeffrey Sachs, the Sustainable Development Goals. Sachs is a guy who was the architect of language, which is seeking to promote abortion and contraception in every country of the world, particularly Africa. Sorondo says: Oh, no, no, no, no, there is no reference to abortion and contraception in the Sustainable Development Goals. They refer to Reproductive health. Come on! SPUC (The Society for the Protection of Unborn Children) has been lobbying to the United Nations for twenty-one years. But you don't have to be an expert to know that the way the UNFPA (The United Nations Population Fund), the way Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama define Reproductive health is access to abortion and contraception. Who is he kidding? So you've got people like him.
You have this appalling situation at the Pontifical Council for the Family where they had a seminar taking place, where they had figures coming along, experts coming along talking about an acceptance in some way or another of homosexual relationships. Absolutely diabolical! It would seem: Satan is alive and well and very active in the Vatican. That's how I would put it.
Do you expect a sort of schism after the Synod?
John Smeaton: I'm not a Church historian. I don't understand what makes a schism. I do understand what makes my life and my family life difficult which is finding a way of worshipping God where I'm not going to be scandalized by what is going on in the parish with respect to the Holy Eucharist, because the target of all of this is the Holy Eucharist. Because what the dissenting bishops want is for people who are living lives of habitual mortal sin, they want people therefore who have rejected God, rejected God's laws to be able to receive the Holy Eucharist. People may say, we see that happening in our Churches all the time. Well I'm afraid very often we do see that happening in ordinary Parish churches around the country. We do have good priests too, as we have locally, who will say: "You must not come to communion unless you are in the state of grace and so on - free of mortal sin and a Catholic." These clerical gentlemen want to destroy the moral law. They want people in habitual mortal sin to be able to receive the Holy Eucharist, which is a profound desecration, the worst sort of desecration that one can be engaged in.
Would it already be a success for the Catholics, if the Synod were to produce an ambiguous document neither heretical nor clearly confirming Catholic teaching?
John Smeaton: I don't think we can talk in terms of success and failure. I think we have to pray for a great outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon God's people. We've got to pray that the labourers who appear to be so few, grow enormously. I'm encouraged because Voice of the Family last year - this coalition of 26 organisations from five continents around the world, pro-life, pro-family organisations - we were more or less alone in Rome last year. This year there is a lot of other groups who are active and who are making statements and so on. We've got to pray for that, too.
I think, ambiguity is just really going to mean that we are going to see the further destruction of the innocence of children, the further destruction of Catholic life throughout the world. The most vulnerable Catholics are the ones who are going to be the worst affected. I'm thinking here in particular of families in Africa, who thank God have by large got bishops who are really standing up to this evil agenda at work at the Synod. It's an evil agenda, that's in the Instrumentum laboris.
The African bishops put out a very strong statement, attacking the Sustainable Development Goals, saying: "Keep this filth away, keep your abortions and your contraception away from our children." They know that their people are particularly vulnerably because aid is made dependent upon acceptance of contraception, acceptance of abortion, acceptance of legalisation of same-sex-relationships.
So if the Vatican sends out an ambiguous note, we had one [African] prelate tell us last year, that he and his colleagues of different faith groups had gone to the government and said: "No you can't possibly introduce same sex legislation. It's against the moral codes of every faith, it's against the natural law, etc." And the government accepted that. But when the Interim report was published last year, which talked about valuing the orientation of homosexuals, valuing mortal sin, valuing acts of grave depravity, he got a text from one of the politicians in his country saying: "We won't be able to hold out any longer." And they didn't. Ambiguity in Vatican document has casualties. And the main casualty actually is the innocence of children. Not even the destruction of human life, which will be colossal. It's the innocence of children, my children, my grand children.
What are you doing to influence the Synod?
John Smeaton: I'm here in Fatima just to spend a couple of days and to share with pro-life colleagues here our experience of the Synod. While being here I heard that a very prominent bishop from somewhere in the world, I won't say who and where, sat down at dinner. My colleagues were having their meal in the evening. And he sat down with them. They talked with him. They had a discussion about the natural law. He was deeply engaged in what they had to say. It helped him. It encouraged him.
We are telling the bishops who we know are seeking to defend our families: "We are here for you. We have some expertise on these documents that we can share with you." Some of them are so busy going out into the bush, pastoring to the millions of Catholics in their diocese. They don't necessary have time to weighed through all this material. So they value the analysis that we are able to provide for them and the selection of materials that we can provide them with, give them a platform perhaps. Give them the chance to meet each other, because one of the ways in which the Synod is apparently being manipulated is that there is very, very little General Assembly, where they all meet each other. They've been divided into groups. And Cardinal Baldisseri would not answer the question on what basis they've been divided into groups. There is considerable concern, that it has been done in order to keep good people away from each other and so on and make sure that there are dominating figures who hold heterodox positions in those little groups. We can provide them the opportunity to breath, to discuss. We all need that in doing our work and in standing up.
One of the things also we can do is by our witness and by our daily prayer. We meet every day for the rosary at 9 o'clock. Maybe that's the most important work we do. We can do that anywhere. But then we go on and we have our meeting, and discuss the day's events and do our action. But at 9 o'clock Rome time, anywhere in the world, you know, particularly if you can join us in prayer. Perhaps say the rosary together at that time. That would be a wonderfully fruitful thing.
Thank you.
