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Lay Association Makes Public Appeal to Correct Francis

The international association Veri Catholici published on November 9 a one-page ad in the Roman edition of Il Giornale.

It calls on cardinals and bishops “to canonically rebuke Jorge Mario Bergoglio, to assess whether his election was valid, that is to say, to examine whether he was Catholic before he was elected or whether he is now in schism with the Catholic Church”.

The appeal refers especially to Amoris Laetitia. The group was originally founded to resist the errors of German Cardinal Walter Kasper.

Picture: © marcotosatti.com, #newsFsepyxfwho

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Klaus Gamber
@Rafał_Ovile exactly as you have ----> And I quote you "a pope should be judged, warned and declared as heretic by perfect or imperfect Council"
but for further information see here: www.catholicculture.org/…/index.cfm or in any decent catholic encyclopedia.
There's no similarities with the present situation and the Western Schism. Try as much as you'd like to draw them.
Klaus Gamber How do you define Conciliarism? And please cite my specific opinions that you consider identical to Conciliarism. Also what are the similarities of the present situation you consider to be analogous to the Western schism?
Klaus Gamber
@Rafał_Ovile you are arguing in favour of conciliarism which emerged as a response to the Western Schism, but is considered problematic and protestant. Following this thread it seems you've tied yourself in knots, and would like to seek recourse to Our Lady undoer of Knots, for whom the Holy Father Pope Francis has a particular devotion.
Dr Stuart Reiss I'm aware lay people lack juridical authority and have only canon 212 to act in accordance with. Therefore, they can plea Hierarchy "pro bono Ecclesiae" in case a Churchmen commits crimes of heresy. Private opinions have only informative value. For exmaple "The Filialis correctio"which I trust has also motivated Veri Catholici to act. As for canonic viewpoint when dealing with a … 더보기
Dr Stuart Reiss
@Rafał_Ovile Thank you...unfortunately the comment you’ve highlighted demonstrates none of those skills, which i’d not claimed for myself in the first place...furthermore its meant to be facetious, within the given context...and certainly not to be taken literarly...which, i admit, would be a common mistake of anyone with rudimemtary knowledge of english or with poor grasp of irony...GTV is dotted with such comments, of mine and many others....
Dr Stuart Reiss I have managed to save some of your comments (see one of many below) which reflect your "excellent" language skills and "great" ecclesiological knowledge. I will leave you with the following words for today:
"Medice, cura te ipsum."

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"I think perhaps the faithful should protest idiot bishops like this who are not even elected to their … 더보기
Dr Stuart Reiss
@Rafał_Ovile the truth of this matter...cannonically...is as @BrTomFordeOFMCap explained..clearly...what i took exception to in your statement was that you’ve suggested his argument was incoherent...and youv’e also gone on to voice your opinion that the Holy Father is a heretic. Furthermore, i have noticed from previous exchanges with you here on GTV that you hold extreme views verging on … 더보기
Dr Stuart Reiss theological/ canonical debates were a norm throughout Church history except in times of censorship when CC was occupied by heretics... This is not modern game of win or lose but to establish truth which gives polemics the diametrically different purpose.
Dr Stuart Reiss
@Rafał_Ovile ohhhh...did i hurt your feelings?....im sorry...i hadn’t considered you an adversary...that’s a big word...but if your main objective in writing here is ‘winning’ then i’m afraid you could fit me into your definitions...but please..follow your own rules that you so humbly present...
Dr Stuart Reiss I don't doubt Brother Thom has apolegitical skills to debate anyone. Please show some humility and respect for adversaries by providing arguments instead of opinions....
Dr Stuart Reiss
@Rafał_Ovile i’m very tolerant to positions and opinions of others and respect even opposite ones, and have not called them incoherent...even if they are...I simply take @BrTomFordeOFMCap s side on this one, as he’s presented his argument better, and more authoratively.
Dr Stuart Reiss There are other theological positions and opinions which you should respect. The facts show that Pope Benedict XVI is still the Pope while Magisterium excludes the possibility of being two popes. Please be more tolerant and open to other views and be able to argument otherwise truth will not be established "pro bono Ecclasiae" which I reckon we all want.
Dr Stuart Reiss
@Rafał_Ovile actually @BrTomFordeOFMCap statements are perfectly coherent and rational in this present crisis...there’s no point in having an infantile rant at the Holy Father...Francis is THE pope, and quite a lot of catholics, including myself don’t like it, but he was chosen by the Sacred College of Cardinals, in a valid conclave and that is that....BXVI resigned, and will have to … 더보기
Well Bro. Tom, the Holy Spirit may very well be trying to work with him, but it seems as though he's not listening very well.
BrTomFordeOFMCap I have chosen one out of your many incoherent statements in regards to the present papal crisis which may publicly lead Brethren to erroneous cognition of the reality. You seem to use the Holy Spirit to legitimate the heresies of the highest legislator Francis while at the same time you disregard the real existence of another Pope.

You may want to hear and understand Pope … 더보기
Thanks God. Finally Bergoglio will pass to history as what he is and what he was in Argentina: a clever schismatic and apostate heretic.
Where ever there is a freedom of speach people should politly express their opinions ,even if it ,s towards the pope
Rafał_Ovile Benedict is not the first Pope to resign. No one but God can know who has and hasn't rejected by their free will the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. You missed my central point: this crowd is asking for something that does not exist, i.e. a canonical method for rebuking a Pope.
BrTomFordeOFMCap False conclusion because the Holy Spirit - God - does not contradict Himself. Therefore if Cardinals reject by their free will the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to choose a particular candidate best for the Church then Holy Spirit can not be forced to work with "whomever the Cardinals pick." Historic canonical tradition clearly shows elected anti-popes and those who greatly … 더보기
Did they ask a canon lawyer for advice before they published this? There is no canonical method for rebuking a Pope. You rebuke him and put up with the consequences. Neither is there a way to check whether he was validly elected (I think they mean licitly). Is he bishop of Rome (his predecessor seems to think so)? If he is then he is the man whom the Holy Spirit has promised to work with i.e. … 더보기