Book review: Setting the Table

Book review: Setting the Table
Preparing Catholic Parishes to Welcome Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender People and Their Families

This review appeared in Catholic Family News in November 2011
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Schexnayder Upholds "Gay" Mythology -- James Schexnayder, aka Reverend James Schexnayder, is a 70ish homosexual retired priest/"gay" activist in good standing with the Diocese of Oakland, California, under at least three consecutive bishops, John S. Cummins, Allen H. Vigneron, and the current bishop, Salvatore J. Cordileone.

When it comes to promoting the ideology of the Homosexual Collective, the author unabashedly adheres to the strict party line:

"Gay" is good, if not better.

"Gays" are born that way.

Coming out is good.

All public discourse on homosexuality must be framed in terms of social justice and civil rights, not morality and sexual deviancy.

The Catholic Church needs to listen and learn from the "lived experience" of sexual deviants of all persuasions.

Biblical scholars were unaware of the existence of the homosexual "person."

I could go on and on, but that would be gilding Oscar Wilde's lily.

Link
ACLumsden
Aaron 🤗 🙂 .
Temperance
🤗 Fidelium.
Temperance
😇 Hi ACL. Yes I guess we disagree on this issue. But I do not reject any teaching the church officially proclaims. God Bless you this holy week!
ACLumsden
Sorry Aaron, your view on the Will of God is quite human, nothing like unto the God described by Holy Mother Church, or the Fathers. I offered to you the Doctor of Doctors, St Thomas Aquinas, and you rejected him, if I were to offer to you the great Augustine of Hippo, or even our Holy Father in his exegesis on the Pentateuch, I am convinced you would also reject him. Therefore, let us agree to …More
Sorry Aaron, your view on the Will of God is quite human, nothing like unto the God described by Holy Mother Church, or the Fathers. I offered to you the Doctor of Doctors, St Thomas Aquinas, and you rejected him, if I were to offer to you the great Augustine of Hippo, or even our Holy Father in his exegesis on the Pentateuch, I am convinced you would also reject him. Therefore, let us agree to disagree.

Pax tecvm! Frater, orantes et hebdomadae sanctae habes. 🤗
Fidelium
Aaron....tis the truth you speak.
Temperance
Hi ACLumsden. Glad we agreed on the more important things.
About Aquinas he does speak of the different evils you are right. Thomas is a great Saint and a Doctor of the Church, but it has been proven that he was wrong on some issues even. However, I don't think he would agree that God "'gives nature permission'" in the context you have given. The way your stating this, it sounds like "nature" wanted …More
Hi ACLumsden. Glad we agreed on the more important things.

About Aquinas he does speak of the different evils you are right. Thomas is a great Saint and a Doctor of the Church, but it has been proven that he was wrong on some issues even. However, I don't think he would agree that God "'gives nature permission'" in the context you have given. The way your stating this, it sounds like "nature" wanted the Homosexuals killed?! The whole philosophy here is that God wanted those Homo's killed. He willed it and they were wiped-out. To say He/God gave nature permission diminishes the severity of the message. Now I do agree God used nature to kill the Homosexuals, such as fire, but I don't agree as with many traditional philosophers don't agree, that God just let nature do whatever it wanted that day. There are many cases like this in the O.T. such as God parting the Red Sea to let His people cross. He didn't "kill" the Egyptians the water did. yet God certainly wanted them to die. God could have just blocked one end of the ocean and the Egyptians would have been forced to go back, but thats not how God wanted it. He wanted them to die, and they did.
God bless.
ACLumsden
Hi Aaron 🤗 . We agree that the gay agrenda is evil; we agree that Sodom and Gomorrah suffered for their sin. However, I am here to tell you, that we are not in agreement, regarding the way you think God was involved in their punishment - see St Thomas Aquinas on the problem of evil- Summa Theologiae: I, Q. xlviii, a. 5, 6; Q. lxiii, a. 9; De Malo, I, 4.
Here Aquinas discribes the three types of …More
Hi Aaron 🤗 . We agree that the gay agrenda is evil; we agree that Sodom and Gomorrah suffered for their sin. However, I am here to tell you, that we are not in agreement, regarding the way you think God was involved in their punishment - see St Thomas Aquinas on the problem of evil- Summa Theologiae: I, Q. xlviii, a. 5, 6; Q. lxiii, a. 9; De Malo, I, 4.

Here Aquinas discribes the three types of evil: Evil is threefold, viz., "malum naturæ" (metaphysical evil), "culpæ" (moral), and "paenæ" (physical, the retributive consequence of "malum culpæ"). It is the paenae of which we are talking here, the consequence of Sodom's evil. God 'allows' the punishment; God 'gives nature permission'. He does not inflict it. Do the research, I think you'll find Aquinas calling you simplistic view into question.

Pax 😇 🤗
holyrope 3
Don't rain on their parade! ☕ 😀 Like their Folsom Street Parade!
Aaron & HC 👍
🤗 www.latinmasstimes.comMore
Don't rain on their parade! ☕ 😀 Like their Folsom Street Parade!

Aaron & HC 👍

🤗 www.latinmasstimes.com
Temperance
😇 Hi ACLumsden. I read your post and understand where you are coming from. But I have to say you have a modernist view on this particular Bible book. I would have to respectfully disagree with your views. I do believe maybe it could happen as you put it, but I actually think and I would have to say most traditional Theologians would also that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorra by how the Bible …More
😇 Hi ACLumsden. I read your post and understand where you are coming from. But I have to say you have a modernist view on this particular Bible book. I would have to respectfully disagree with your views. I do believe maybe it could happen as you put it, but I actually think and I would have to say most traditional Theologians would also that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorra by how the Bible illustrates it. With Sodom and Gomorra one has to remember it was a complete and total corrupted abomination to God. After Lot and his family left NO one was found righteous. The city was filled with Sodomites! Our culture is overrun with these liberal views on "gays". We have forgotten how evil and distorted the homo's are. In Biblical times Homos were put to death if you were a jew and the Jews found out you practiced it. They understood how evil it was and because they remembered God's justice with the cities; because in the rule of Moses it is very much condemned as well. All the states in the USA at one time had laws against Homo activity also. Now we are forced to tolerate them because they have shoved their agenda into our faces and are forcing our children to learn about it. It is a horrible sin against the very fabric of nature and destroys the family and society. God knows more than we do how awful homosexuality is and I do believe as most Christians that God sent fire down on the homo's in those cities to show the world for all time that these acts are atrocious. To say it was through more natural cause I believe would diminish the Severity of the story.
God bless.
Holy Cannoli
If it were up to the “Soft on Sodomy” crowd they would prefer that the world believed that the sin of Sodomy was inhospitablity. Nothing could be further from the truth but the truth is not important to homo promo activists. For them, it's about pushing their agenda.
Throughout History, Jewish and Christian scholars of all persuasions have recognized that one of the chief sins that provoked God’s …More
If it were up to the “Soft on Sodomy” crowd they would prefer that the world believed that the sin of Sodomy was inhospitablity. Nothing could be further from the truth but the truth is not important to homo promo activists. For them, it's about pushing their agenda.

Throughout History, Jewish and Christian scholars of all persuasions have recognized that one of the chief sins that provoked God’s destruction of Sodom was its people's homosexual behavior. But today certain homosexual activists and their apologists advocate the idea that the sin of Sodom was merely a lack of hospitality. Although inhospitality is a sin, it is clearly the homosexual behavior of Sodomites that is singled out for special criticism and prominence in the account of their city's destruction. When we look to Scripture we clearly see that the sin of Sodom. Jude 7 records that Sodom and Gomorrah "acted immorally and indulged in unnatural lust."

msnbcmedia.msn.com/…/120323-elton-jo…
ACLumsden
Hey Greg! Hi! 🤗 Indeed that man, indeed. If it were up to rhemes and his lot, we would all still be believing that the Earth is flat and that the Universe orbits the Earth! Not to worry that man, each to his own. 😇
Holy Cannoli
In the New Testament, Christ refers to the destruction of Sodom "in the days of Lot" (Luke 17:28, 29), and St. Peter (2 Peter 2:6-8) speaks of the deliverance of the "just Lot". The fate of Lot's wife is referred to in Wis., x, 7; Luke 17:32. According to Jewish and Christian tradition, the pillar of salt into which she was converted was preserved for some time (Josephus, "Antiq.", I, xi, 4; …More
In the New Testament, Christ refers to the destruction of Sodom "in the days of Lot" (Luke 17:28, 29), and St. Peter (2 Peter 2:6-8) speaks of the deliverance of the "just Lot". The fate of Lot's wife is referred to in Wis., x, 7; Luke 17:32. According to Jewish and Christian tradition, the pillar of salt into which she was converted was preserved for some time (Josephus, "Antiq.", I, xi, 4; Clement of Rome, I Corinthians 11.2; Irenæus, "Adv. Haer.", IV, xxxi). Various explanations are given of this phenomenon. According to von Hummelauer ("Comment. in Gen.", Paris, 1895, 417), Lot's wife could easily have been overtaken by the salty waters of the Dead Sea and literally covered with salt. Kaulen had already advanced a similar explanation, accounting for the coating of salt by the heat of the flames releasing the salt fumes from the soil.

The Catholic Encyclopedia
Holy Cannoli
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7
For the unnatural sins of their inhabitants Sodom, Gomorrha, Adama, and Seboin were destroyed by "brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven" (Genesis 13:13; 18:20; 19:24, 29More
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7

For the unnatural sins of their inhabitants Sodom, Gomorrha, Adama, and Seboin were destroyed by "brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven" (Genesis 13:13; 18:20; 19:24, 29; Hosea 11:8). Since then, their names are synonymous with impenitent sin, and their fall with a proverbial manifestation of God's just wrath (Deuteronomy 29:23; 32:32; Isaiah 1:10 sqq.; Ezekiel 16:49; Matthew 11:23 sq.; 2 Peter 2:6; Jude 7). The Septuagint rendering katestrephe (Genesis 19:25) probably led to the erroneous opinion that the destruction of Sodom was accompanied by great upheavals of the earth, and even to the formation of the Dead Sea.

The Catholilc Encyclopedia
ACLumsden
Hi Aaron 🤗 : In answer to your question, I have two points to share:
1. Take the Creation Myths for example. These appear in the book of Genesis Ch.1 and 2. Two completely different accounts of the Creation. Now, broaden ones view to encompass the whole Fertile Crescent. The Babylonians, Asyrians and Egyptians also had Creation Myths.
The Babylonian in particular is interesting for us. The Babylonian …More
Hi Aaron 🤗 : In answer to your question, I have two points to share:
1. Take the Creation Myths for example. These appear in the book of Genesis Ch.1 and 2. Two completely different accounts of the Creation. Now, broaden ones view to encompass the whole Fertile Crescent. The Babylonians, Asyrians and Egyptians also had Creation Myths.

The Babylonian in particular is interesting for us. The Babylonian Creation Myth of how Marduk called the Cosmos into being bears striking resemblence to the Creation Myths of Genesis, e.g. in the God called all into existence, etc. The only difference is in the relationship between God and man and God, man and the environment. In Genesis, we are told that God saw all that He had made and found it all very good.

My point here is that the Christian Church does not believe the Creation narative as if it were a Court Transcript of a case-action, e.g. God rested on the Seventh Day - what day was this? Were there days in primordial times? No, of course not. Rather, we believe in the Truths that the Creation Myths teach: that God created all, that man was created in the image and likeness of God, that man was put in charge of creation, and that man chose to disobey God and suffer separation from God for his crime.

2. The Pillar of Salt imagery. Hebrew literature is unlike anything we in the West are accustomed to. Hence the reason for Biblical Scholarship and a learned and holy priest to interpret for us!

Many of the books and accounts of the works of Yahweh were written many centuries AFTER the event. Now, in an oral tradition it is imperative that ones stories contain strong images (pictoral literature if you will) so that they can survive the centuries (millenia of passing from one generation to the next). This is true of every other oral culture of the time (e.g. the pagan Creation Myths mentioned above).

So when writing came into the saga, who began to write these oral account down for posterity? The scribes and the priests. It was their job to interpret the plight of Israel and all of Her many, many woes and triumphs. Rather like the Magesterium of the Church today, but does God actually say unto the holy Cardinals "do this!", or "do that!" ? Of course not, this is rather simplistic. Like Jesus Himself says, "you can tell that it is going to rain, because you can see the clouds gathering". In other words, reading the signs of the times.

Therefore, what am I saying in all of this? 1. That there is a danger in taking the Old Testament literally, since it is an account of how Yahweh saves; an account in pictoral literature, not COMPLETELY a blow-by-blow account of God's intervention in nature. 2. That what is recorded in the Old (and New) testament are the accounts of men of faith, seeing the hand of Yahweh working in HIs people's lives, through natural events (rather like we saying: humm.... since the Church is not forming men well for priesthood, God has held His hand and the Call to priesthood is now withheld. Hence the shortage of priests. Did God tell us this? No! We have read the signs of the times....).

In fine, all of the above does not diminish the OT imagery in the least, nor God's power to Save. However, it teaches us what God has done for us throughout Salvation History. Therefore, what he can do for us in our own life; what He has already done in Christ Jesus our Lord. In this time of Triduum Sacrum both the mighty power of God to Save and to do marvelous works is to be celebrated. But not everything is a 'wonder' or miraculous event, e.g. the distruction of Sodom and Gommorah, Lot's wife, etc. So let us not get bogged down in the imagery, but transcend it unto the truth they teach us. (Be careful not to project unto God, what is purely a trait of fallen humanity, i.e. taking life.)
Holy Cannoli
God created life He can take it away, can't He?
He can and he absolutely does.
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It is true, when one offends us unjustly, God does not will his sin, nor does he concur in the sinner’s bad will; but God does, in a general way, concur in the material action by which such a one strikes us, robs us or does us an injury, so that God certainly wills the offense we suffer …More
God created life He can take it away, can't He?

He can and he absolutely does.
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It is true, when one offends us unjustly, God does not will his sin, nor does he concur in the sinner’s bad will; but God does, in a general way, concur in the material action by which such a one strikes us, robs us or does us an injury, so that God certainly wills the offense we suffer and it comes to us from his hands. Thus the Lord told David he would be the author of those things he would suffer at the hands of Absalom: “I will raise up evils against thee out of thy own house, and I will take thy wives before thy face and give them to thy neighbor24.”

Hence too God told the Jews that in punishment for their sins, he would send the Assyrians to plunder them and spread destruction among them: “The Assyrian is the rod and staff of my anger . . . I will send him to take away the spoils25.” “Assyrian wickedness served as God’s scourge for the Hebrews26‘‘ is St. Augustine’s comment on this text. And our Lord himself told St. Peter that his sacred passion came not so much from man as from his Father: “The chalice which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it27?”

When the messenger came to announce to Job that the Sabeans had plundered his goods and slain his children, he said: “The Lord gave and the Lord taketh away28.” He did not say: “The Lord hath given me my children and my possessions, and the Sabeans have taken them away.” He realized that adversity had come upon him by the will of God. Therefore he added: “As it hath pleased the Lord, so is it done. Blessed be the name of the Lord29.”

We must not therefore consider the afflictions that come upon us as happening by chance or solely from the malice of men; we should be convinced that what happens, happens by the will of God. Apropos of this it is related that two martyrs, Epictetus and Atho, being put to the torture by having their bodies raked with iron hooks and burnt with flaming torches, kept repeating: “Work thy will upon us, O Lord.” Arrived at the place of execution, they exclaimed: “Eternal God, be thou blessed in that thy will has been entirely accomplished in us30.”


St. Alphonsus de Liguori, Doctor of the Church
Temperance
Hi ACLumsden. Interesting outlook on the whole destruction of the two cities. I enjoyed your comments on St Anselm, St Thomas St Aquinas, & St Augustine. I guess that could happen.
I would argue though that God can kill who ever He wants. If you think about it God created man and told him he couldn't kill but never said that about Himself. God created life He can take it away, can't He?
Not meaning …More
Hi ACLumsden. Interesting outlook on the whole destruction of the two cities. I enjoyed your comments on St Anselm, St Thomas St Aquinas, & St Augustine. I guess that could happen.

I would argue though that God can kill who ever He wants. If you think about it God created man and told him he couldn't kill but never said that about Himself. God created life He can take it away, can't He?

Not meaning to stray from the issue, but I am still not convinced that God didn't give the order to have those cities killed. God wanted to show all creation that Homosexuality is evil. But I have to ask you an important question then in regards to this view you have illustrated. If this was caused by Solar Energy + Natural Gas + Tar equaling a Huge explosion than why did a woman turn into a pillar of salt? Nothing natural can cause this. The woman turned into a pillar of salt because she saw the awesome hand of God with His wrath coming down upon the Sodomites. A huge explosion wouldn't have caused her to turn into salt. If this was true people all around the world would be warned not to play with natural Gas and tar. I still lean towards the literal Biblical view because of the woman and her turning into salt. I am sure some scientist out there has even given a reason for her turning into salt, yet after we make excuses for all these situations in the bible, it become wishy-washy.
ACLumsden
Hey Aaron 🤗 . That sin has its consequences is a direct function of the Fall. This Fall, you would agree, was on account of man choosing to disobey God's Will. If men choose evil, the consequences are dire. But who inflicts these consequences?
In the case of Sodom etc, present archeological evidence points to the following:
1. That there is a rather large deposit of natural hyrocarbons beneath …More
Hey Aaron 🤗 . That sin has its consequences is a direct function of the Fall. This Fall, you would agree, was on account of man choosing to disobey God's Will. If men choose evil, the consequences are dire. But who inflicts these consequences?

In the case of Sodom etc, present archeological evidence points to the following:

1. That there is a rather large deposit of natural hyrocarbons beneath the Dead Sea (hence the everpresent tar washing up on its beaches).

2. Loaded in these deposits are pockets of Natural Gas.

3. The Geology of the surface topography of this area consists of rather a high presence of exposed flint.

Now, one does not need to be too bright to know that the great heat in that part of the world from Solar Radiation is rather intense. If we consider how natural bush fires are caused, even today, it is easy to see how deadly the above combination is: Solar Energy + Natural Gas + Tar = Huge explosion.

I am therefore offering to you what Dom Henry Wansborough (Editor in Chief of the New Jerusalem Bible), and my Old testament professor, has confirmed: the fire and brimstone of the Sodom and Gommorah narative is indeed an ancient Hebrew account of such a natural disaster.

Now, I am not saying that God had nothing to do with it; who made all the natural resources to fuel the explosion? God did. What I am saying is that God is not like unto a human father, who administers punishment himself. Rather, God allows the punishment to befall a sinner, on account of their choice (like the consequneces of Origin Sin cited above).

Therefore to say that God issued forth a decree to kill, is to reduce God into a human being. St Anselm and St Thomas Aquinas struggled with this, not to mention Augustine of Hippo; that God would say on the one hand "thou shalt not kill", and on the other hand Himself contravene His own law, caused the Fathers much torment. I believe it was Anselm who began the argument above, but archeology coupled with good scriptural exegesis, guided by Holy Mother Church, has fleshed it out somewhat.

In fine, there is much more to the Old Testament than that which is written.
😇
Temperance
holyrope always great to see you! 🤗
Great link! I live next to one of those churches! 👍More
holyrope always great to see you! 🤗

Great link! I live next to one of those churches! 👍
holyrope 3
AaronBrennan.. 👍
😇 www.latinmasstimes.comMore
AaronBrennan.. 👍

😇 www.latinmasstimes.com
Temperance
I agree with you that reading the Scriptures one must have proper hermeneutics, I am actually getting my Bachelors of Science this may in Religion.
Never read the Bible in Hebrew though, but I do study it in Greek from time to time.
But with the issue at hand my whole idea is that for those cities to have been destroyed God would have wanted it or willed it. So in essence God did destroy them. …More
I agree with you that reading the Scriptures one must have proper hermeneutics, I am actually getting my Bachelors of Science this may in Religion.

Never read the Bible in Hebrew though, but I do study it in Greek from time to time.

But with the issue at hand my whole idea is that for those cities to have been destroyed God would have wanted it or willed it. So in essence God did destroy them. Maybe not by His hand but he certainly gave the order to have them all burned.

I see your logic and there is wisdom and caution in it, I thank you for it, but we would both have to conclude that God did will for the Homo's in those cities to be destroyed.