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It's them, not John Paul II

Pius X:

12 Q. Who are infidels?

A. Infidels are those who have not been baptised and do not believe in Jesus Christ, because they either believe in and worship false gods as idolaters do, or though admitting one true God, they do not believe in the Messiah, neither as already come in the Person of Jesus Christ, nor as to come; for instance, Mohammedans and the like.


Source of text: CATECHISM OF SAINT PIUS X: The Ninth Article of the Creed, Those Outside the Communion of Saints, 12 Q. Who are infidels?; www.ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/PIUSXCAT.HTM

Pius XI:

72. But in this battle joined by the powers of darkness against the very idea of Divinity, it is Our fond hope that, besides the host which glories in the name of Christ, all those - and they comprise the overwhelming majority of mankind, - who still believe in God and pay Him homage may take a decisive part.

Source of text: Encyclical "Divini Redemtoris" 72; w2.vatican.va/…/hf_p-xi_enc_193…

Pius XII:

16. Nor can We pass over in silence the profound impression of heartfelt gratitude made on Us by the good wishes of those who, though not belonging to the visible body of the Catholic Church, have given noble and sincere expression to their appreciation of all that unites them to Us in love for the Person of Christ or in belief in God. We wish to express Our gratitude to them all. We entrust them one and all to the protection and to the guidance of the Lord and We assure them solemnly that one thought only fills Our mind: to imitate the example of the Good Shepherd in order to bring true happiness to all men: "that they may have life, and may have it more abundantly" (Saint John x. 10).

Source of text: Encykclical "Summi Pontificatus" 16; w2.vatican.va/…/hf_p-xii_enc_20…
Mohameddans are categorized by Pius X as infidels. Therefore "admitting one true God..." is understood in the sense "allow the possibility of...". Unfortunately +1400 year reality of islam shows muslims do not tolerate true God's children - Christians - and thereby do not even admit one true God - Most Holy Trinity. Nevertheless, the above statement, taken as it is, can not imply and be basis …More
Mohameddans are categorized by Pius X as infidels. Therefore "admitting one true God..." is understood in the sense "allow the possibility of...". Unfortunately +1400 year reality of islam shows muslims do not tolerate true God's children - Christians - and thereby do not even admit one true God - Most Holy Trinity. Nevertheless, the above statement, taken as it is, can not imply and be basis for the following false and blasphemous judgment in Nostra Aetate: "The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself..." Therefore Nostra Aetate sets the novel post-conciliar anti-trinitarian monotheistic cult inside the Church and is source of terrible consequences, which post-conciliar pope Benedict XVI makes clearly distinct from true Trinitarian monotheism. In summary, NA is the creator of neo anti-trinitarianism not the continuity with pre-conciliar magisterium as the author of this post falsely implies...

As for the following other varying tendencies of the opinion agreeing with necessities of mind and place, they should not be used to accommodate human life but subject to absolute dogmatic truth.
Pius XI:

72. But in this battle joined by the powers of darkness against the very idea of Divinity, it is Our fond hope that, besides the host which glories in the name of Christ, all those - and they comprise the overwhelming majority of mankind, - who still believe in God and pay Him homage may take a decisive part.

Source of text: Encyclical "Divini Redemtoris" 72; w2.vatican.va/…/hf_p-xi_…More
Pius XI:

72. But in this battle joined by the powers of darkness against the very idea of Divinity, it is Our fond hope that, besides the host which glories in the name of Christ, all those - and they comprise the overwhelming majority of mankind, - who still believe in God and pay Him homage may take a decisive part.

Source of text: Encyclical "Divini Redemtoris" 72; w2.vatican.va/…/hf_p-xi_enc_193…
W please consider historical context of time and space enclosed in the title. Therefore, the above general (not specifying muslims etc.) statement of Pius XI expresses certain emotion in preceding words "it is Our fond hope...". Such is the mental cognition as flow and experience of feelings... thus being substantially different to a theological judgment with dogmatic implications (i.e. in …More
W please consider historical context of time and space enclosed in the title. Therefore, the above general (not specifying muslims etc.) statement of Pius XI expresses certain emotion in preceding words "it is Our fond hope...". Such is the mental cognition as flow and experience of feelings... thus being substantially different to a theological judgment with dogmatic implications (i.e. in Nostra Aetate).
Mortalium Animos, Pius XI, being in accordance with holy tradition leaves no doubt to his magisterium and consequences to those who are in error and deception:
2. "A similar object is aimed at by some, in those matters which concern the New Law promulgated by Christ our Lord. For since they hold it for certain that men destitute of all religious sense are very rarely to be found, they seem to …More
Mortalium Animos, Pius XI, being in accordance with holy tradition leaves no doubt to his magisterium and consequences to those who are in error and deception:
2. "A similar object is aimed at by some, in those matters which concern the New Law promulgated by Christ our Lord. For since they hold it for certain that men destitute of all religious sense are very rarely to be found, they seem to have founded on that belief a hope that the nations, although they differ among themselves in certain religious matters, will without much difficulty come to agree as brethren in professing certain doctrines, which form as it were a common basis of the spiritual life. For which reason conventions, meetings and addresses are frequently arranged by these persons, at which a large number of listeners are present, and at which all without distinction are invited to join in the discussion, both infidels of every kind, and Christians, even those who have unhappily fallen away from Christ or who with obstinacy and pertinacity deny His divine nature and mission. Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little. turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion."
"Therefore Nostra Aetate sets the novel post-conciliar anti-trinitarian monotheistic cult inside the Church"

Your opinion regarding a "monotheistic cult" just happens to be contradicted by the Church's teachings going all the way back to the Nicene Creed.Quoting giant lengths of text doesn't make you correct. It just makes you a pompous bore, like usual.
www.vatican.va/…/credo.htm
@ Rafał when Pius XI wrote these words, christians represented only a third of the world's population, and the pope wrote: ... with the exception of the host who prides himself on the name of Christ, everyone - and represents the vast majority of mankind - who still believe in God and give him homage. .. ("Divini Redemtoris" 72; w2.vatican.va/…/hf_p-xi_enc_193…).

We can not criticize St John …More
@ Rafał when Pius XI wrote these words, christians represented only a third of the world's population, and the pope wrote: ... with the exception of the host who prides himself on the name of Christ, everyone - and represents the vast majority of mankind - who still believe in God and give him homage. .. ("Divini Redemtoris" 72; w2.vatican.va/…/hf_p-xi_enc_193…).

We can not criticize St John Paul II and at the same time praise the St Pius X. I recommend the text : Bóg NIE MOŻE chcieć fałszywych religii
W whatever you take out of context will not affect clear Pius XI magisterium on dialoguing with infidels in Mortalium Animos. Your end is to reconcile post-conciliar heretical and erroneous monistic view on monotheism. (here also refer to pp BXVI) However, the end does not justify the means. p.s. Who is "we criticize..."? Are you familiar with my discernment on St. John Paul II's dialogue with …More
W whatever you take out of context will not affect clear Pius XI magisterium on dialoguing with infidels in Mortalium Animos. Your end is to reconcile post-conciliar heretical and erroneous monistic view on monotheism. (here also refer to pp BXVI) However, the end does not justify the means. p.s. Who is "we criticize..."? Are you familiar with my discernment on St. John Paul II's dialogue with false religions?

Stuart try to read with understanding what present pope Benedict XVI has stated on distinct monotheism. Thereby you may avoid to fool yourself and others. Otherwise you will continue in your pertinacious error..
@Rafał no...islam is an evil and a false religion. My goal is to show that St. John Paul II continued and developed the teaching of Pius X, Pius XI and Pius XII. Can we be surprised by the teaching of the post-conciliar popes when St. Pius X taught:

Infidels are those who have not been baptised and do not believe in Jesus Christ, because they either believe in and worship false gods as …More
@Rafał no...islam is an evil and a false religion. My goal is to show that St. John Paul II continued and developed the teaching of Pius X, Pius XI and Pius XII. Can we be surprised by the teaching of the post-conciliar popes when St. Pius X taught:

Infidels are those who have not been baptised and do not believe in Jesus Christ, because they either believe in and worship false gods as idolaters do, or though admitting one true God, they do not believe in the Messiah, neither as already come in the Person of Jesus Christ, nor as to come; for instance, Mohammedans and the like (CATECHISM OF SAINT PIUS X: The Ninth Article of the Creed, Those Outside the Communion of Saints, 12 Q. Who are infidels?; www.ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/PIUSXCAT.HTM).
@W obronie Tradycji Kościoła "@Ultraviolet this is not my opinion:"

I know it's not your opinion. I wasn't addressing you. I was addressing our ever-argumentative RaFal_Olive. I highlighted his name and quoted him directly. I'm not Rafal. Whatever dispute you're having with him is not my direct concern. Well, aside from watching you encounter the same problems with him that I have.

In point of …More
@W obronie Tradycji Kościoła "@Ultraviolet this is not my opinion:"

I know it's not your opinion. I wasn't addressing you. I was addressing our ever-argumentative RaFal_Olive. I highlighted his name and quoted him directly. I'm not Rafal. Whatever dispute you're having with him is not my direct concern. Well, aside from watching you encounter the same problems with him that I have.

In point of fact, I used an argument almost identical to the one you're presenting a few days ago. I was defending the validity of the current Church Catechism on Islam.

As you're beginning to discover yourself, reason is lost on Rafal. He quotes only Church sources he feels support his views, ignores the context of them, dismisses any and all Church sources that directly contradict his views as "modernist", and ignores any reasoning that reconciles his own quoted sources with others.

It's like arguing with a brick wall. A wall that can talk and an intellectually dishonest one at that. Have fun with him.
@Ultraviolet ok. but we can not forget that we have a duty to evangelize muslims (declaration by "Dominus Iesus" (www.vatican.va/…/rc_con_cfaith_d… ).

By the way, it is worth recalling:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in …More
@Ultraviolet ok. but we can not forget that we have a duty to evangelize muslims (declaration by "Dominus Iesus" (www.vatican.va/…/rc_con_cfaith_d… ).

By the way, it is worth recalling:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it (CCC 846; www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM).
You 'mistakingly' deleted my following comment or you have no argument?
"W You aim to reconcile traditional concept (as explain faithfully existing doctrines) and modernist concept ["...and developed the teaching..." / develop - improve) of tradition what inevitably leads to relativity of absolute (dogmatic) truth.

Traditional concept of Tradition alive is not in the subjective sense of change …More
You 'mistakingly' deleted my following comment or you have no argument?
"W You aim to reconcile traditional concept (as explain faithfully existing doctrines) and modernist concept ["...and developed the teaching..." / develop - improve) of tradition what inevitably leads to relativity of absolute (dogmatic) truth.

Traditional concept of Tradition alive is not in the subjective sense of change but in objective sense it is not dead. Otherwise the consequence of accumulating relative truths leads to steady obscurement of absolute truth with end to nullify its objectivity...

Finally, Tradition is in the same sense and the same judgment over time and space so as to watch over doctrines saintly and explain faithfully, delivered as deposit of faith to Spouse of Christ.

Can you cite text in JPII magisterium in reference to popes you mention to prove the continuity implied?"
I have irrefutable arguments. The truth is sometimes very painful.
@W obronie Tradycji Kościoła Agreed. We have a duty to evangelize The Good News to all humanity. Heck, you don't have to go as far as something like "Dominus Iesus". It's in the Gospels, straight from Jesus Himself.

For what it's worth, I prefer to do my evangelizing by leading a good life and, I hope, lead by example. After all, we are not living in the time of Jesus. We are not dealing with …More
@W obronie Tradycji Kościoła Agreed. We have a duty to evangelize The Good News to all humanity. Heck, you don't have to go as far as something like "Dominus Iesus". It's in the Gospels, straight from Jesus Himself.

For what it's worth, I prefer to do my evangelizing by leading a good life and, I hope, lead by example. After all, we are not living in the time of Jesus. We are not dealing with civilizations where the first evangelists were encountering people who had -never- heard of Christ in any form ever before.

This is the internet age, the age of the smart-phone. Any Muslim who has even the slightest curiosity about Christianity can find literally terabytes of data on every denomination from all of history.

Somehow, I think that my handing out leaflets or Bibles or care-packages or whatever isn't going to do anything. I have the entirety of Muslim history supporting that view. No country that has fallen to Islam has ever rebuked it. Single conversions happen occasionally, but they're fairly rare and almost always self-initiated.

I do agree with you the Church Catechism clearly shows that those who reject Christ can not and will not be saved. Like I said, I'm not arguing with you. I'm enjoying watching you beat Rafal_Ovile at his own game, though. Personally, I never found his arguments worth the effort of digging up obscure Church documents to refute him.

Your scholarship and reasoning are having the same success in changing Rafal's mind, as you'd have trying to convert the wilfully ignorant Muslims.
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