J. Ratzinger: ci sono santi pagani, fuori dalla Chiesa ci si salva in larga scala

http://radiospada.org/2015/02/j-ratzinger-ci-sono-santi-pagani-fuori-dalla-chiesa-ci-si-salva-larga-scala/

J. Ratzinger: ci sono santi pagani, fuori dalla Chiesa ci si salva in larga scala
(There are holy pagans outside the Church who are saved on a large scale )

Salt of the Earth

 

 

POPE CONTRADICTS BIBLE, CARDINAL LEVADA ISSUES NO CLARIFICATION. EXPECTS OFFICAL CLARIFICATION FROM BISHOP FELLAY

 

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/pope-contradicts-bible-cardinal-levada.html

 

________________________________________

 

REPORT IS AN EXPOSE OF APOSTASY AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF THE CHURCH-ROBERT SUNGENIS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2011/02/report-is-expose-of-apostasy-at-highest.html


CDF CLARIFIES COMMENT ON CONDOMS BUT NOT JEWS : POPE CONTRADICTS BIBLE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2010/12/cdf-clarifies-comment-on-condoms-but.html#links

POPE SAYS REVISED GOOD FRIDAY PRAYER IS NOT FOR THE CONVERSION OF THE JEWS ? EARTHQUAKE SHIFT IN CATHOLIC TEACHING ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/12/pope-says-revised-good-friday-prayer-is.html

Pope Benedict XVI’s objective,factual error in Light of the World (Ignatius) p.107 is contributing to widespread liberalism and dissent in the Catholic Church.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/search/label/Light%20of%20the%20World

Msgr. Guido Pozzo could announce Vatican Council II agrees with literal interpretation of dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus while Nostra Aetate says Catholics are the ‘new people of God’ : pope made an error in Light of the World- all this is relevant to the Vatican-SSPX differences
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/msgr-guido-pozzo-could-announce-vatican.html
  CATHOLIC NEWS BLACK OUT ON BAGNASCO-RABBI DEAL
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2009/09/catholic-news-black-out-on-bagnasco.html#links

RABBIS WHO MET WITH CARDINAL ANGELO BAGNASCO ORIENTED TO HELL INDICATES VATICAN COUNCIL II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2009/10/rabbis-who-met-with-cardinal-angelo.html#links

 

VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION Vatican Council II says outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation. Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

The Catholic Church teaches after Vatican Council II (1965) that all people need to enter the Catholic Church to go to Heaven (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II). Catholic Faith with the Baptism of water is the normal, ordinary way of salvation for all people (Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II).The Catholic Church is the ordinary way of salvation for all people (Lumen Gentium 14).Non Catholics however can be saved through the extraordinary means of salvation (Lumen Gentium 16).Only God knows who are the non-Catholics saved through the extraordinary means of salvation; the exceptions. We do not know who the exceptions are. We cannot judge. Jesus, the Church, Scripture and Vatican Council II indicate that the priority is Catholic Faith and the Baptism of water for all people.

So everyone needs to enter the Catholic Church which is the like the only Ark of Noah that saves in the Flood (CCC).Non Catholic religions have good things in them. However they are not paths to salvation. All salvation comes through Jesus and His Mystical Body the Church. Those non-Catholics who know the above information and yet do not enter the Church are oriented to Hell (Ad Gentes 7, Lumen Gentium 14).Those non-Catholics participating in inter religious dialogue, are educated. They know. They are oriented to Hell.

Outside the Church there is no salvation. Catholic Faith and the Baptism of water are needed for all people. This is Vatican Council II.
No where in Nostra Aetate, Vatican Council II is it said that non Catholic religions are paths to salvation.
Vatican Council II is in harmony with John 3:5, the Church Fathers, the ex cathedra councils on extra ecclesia nulla salus, the Council of Florence, Evangelii Nuntiandi, Redemptoris Missio, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Dominus Iesus, Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, Notification on Fr. Jacques Dupuis etc. In ‘certain circumstances’ as Pope Pius XII states (Letter of the Holy Office 1949) those with implicit faith, those who are not Catholics ,can be saved (without Catholic Faith and the Baptism of water).So we cannot interpret ‘It follows that these separated churches and Communities….’ as referring to the ordinary way of salvation. Since only in 'certain circumstances’; exceptionally and known to God only can members of separated Churches and communities be saved without Catholic Faith in the Catholic Church. The ordinary way of salvation is the baptism of water and Catholic Faith. For example the Catechism states that the Catholic Church knows of no way to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water (given to adults with Catholic Faith). So this is the ordinary way. Yet CCC 1257 also says salvation is not limited to the Sacraments. So here we have the dejure, extraordinary,exceptional means of salvation. In a way it is irrelevant to us since it will be judged only by Jesus.-Lionel Andrades

_________________________________________________________________________________

CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS IS DE FIDE AND NOT CONTRADICTED BY VATICAN COUNCIL II- Fr. Nevus Marcello O.P
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2011/07/cantate-domino-council-of-florence-on.html
 

AMERICAN APOLOGIST SAYS ITALIAN BISHOPS IN APOSTASY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2009/10/american-apologist-says-italian-bishops.html#links

CATHOLIC PRIESTS CORRECT POPE BENEDICT'S MISTAKE : WE DO NOT KNOW ANY CASE OF A NON CATHOLIC SAVED IMPLICITLY BY JESUS AND THE CHURCH SO IT DOES NOT CONTRADICT CANTATE DOMINO,COUNCIL OF FLORENCE

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/search?q=Pope+Benedict+XVI+contradicts+the+Bible



 

POPE BENEDICT XVI MAKES THE RICHARD CUSHING ERROR AND ASSUMES VATICAN COUNCIL II CONTRADICTS THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS

The pope and his Curia have made an objective mistake and are now forcing it upon the SSPX with threats of an ecclesial rupture.

“If it is desirable to offer a diagnosis of the text [Gaudium et Spes] as a whole, we might say that (in conjunction with the texts on religious liberty and world religions) it is a revision of the Syllabus of Pius IX, a kind of countersyllabus. [...] Let us be content to say that the text serves as a countersyllabus and, as such, represents, on the part of the Church, an attempt at an official reconciliation with the new era inaugurated in 1789.”-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (Principles of Catholic Theology, 1987, pp. 381-2, Ignatius Press 1987)

http://www.romancatholicism.org/vatican-ii.htm

I altered the text in such a way as to express our faith that Christ is the Savior for all, that there are not two channels of salvation, so that Christ is also the redeemer of the Jews, and not just of the Gentiles.

But the new formulation also shifts the focus from a direct petition for the conversion of the Jews in a missionary sense...-Light of the World-Conversations with Peter Seewald (Ignatius Press.p.107)

For Pope Benedict XVI there is salvation outside the Church since he assumes that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.From here the problems start for all of us.

For centuries there was only one channel of salvation and it was Jesus in the Catholic Church.This is no more the one channel of salvation for our pope.Since he believes there can be non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance etc.There are exceptions to the one traditional channel.

When he says there are 'not two channels of salvation' he means there is only one channel of salvation which is Jesus Christ who saves all and so all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church. So every one does not need to enter into the one traditional channel of salvation which was the Catholic Church.Christ is the redeemer of the Jews and the Gentiles.So they do not have to enter the Church, the one channel for salvation.

This is the new theology. It is based on the error of assuming those saved with the baptism of desire etc are exceptions to the defined dogma.

This is an objective error since we cannot see these cases.It is a factual error. Since it is accepted it is assumed further that Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma on exclusive salvation.Lumen Gentium 16 refers to those saved in invincible ignorance so it is taken for granted(superficially)  that there is salvation outside the church and LG 16 contradicts the dogma.Since LG 16 contradicts the dogma obviously it would have to contradict the Syllabus of Errors for the pope.

So from this error has devolved new theories like the theology of religions and the ecclesiology of communion. The pope has approved them. He has probably also asked the Society of St.Pius X to accept this new theology  the last time Bishop Bernard Fellay,Superior General of the SSPX, went to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith office.
-Lionel Andrades
Sept.1,2012
First Saturday

We are back to the traditional ecclesiology and understanding of religious liberty. The Council does not contradict the dogma on salvation or the Syllabus of Errors

I have just re- read Gaudium et Specs, Vatican Council II and have not found any text which contradicts the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or the Syllabus of Errors.

On the Most Holy Family Monastery (MHFM) website it is said:

Salza is wrong again. To give just one example that refutes Salza’s claim, in his book Principles of Catholic Theology,... Benedict XVI admits that Vatican II’s teaching on religious liberty (to which Benedict XVI adheres) contradicts the magisterial teaching of Pope Pius IX in the Syllabus of Errors (1864). That the two contradict each other is obvious to any honest person who studies the issue.

That Gaudium et Specs and other Vatican Council II documents would contradict the dogma on exclusive salvation and the Syllabus could be because it is assumed that Vatican Council II says there is salvation outside the Church.

For Pope Benedict XVI and the sedevacantists MHFM Vatican Council II says there is salvation outside the Church since they both assume that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma.

The Dimond Brothers of the MHFM have written a book Outside the Church there is no Salvation in which this error is made. They assume that the baptism of desire is known to us and so is an exception to the dogma.

In Light of the World Conversations with Peter Seewald the pope seems to be making the same mistake as Cardinal Richard Cushing , the Archbishop of Boston.Hence for him Vatican Council II would contradict the Syllabus of Errors.

For me Vatican Council II does not state that there is salvation outside the Church, so the Council does not contradict the Syllabus.With the literal interpretation of the dogma ecclesiology is traditional and exclusive. Hence the teaching on religious liberty would also be traditional. With this perspective one needs to re-read Gaudium et Specs.

Before the SSPX Chapter communique last month this would also be the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) perspective on this issue. However their communique is saying outside the church there is no salvation and no possibility to find the means of salvation. So they do not acknowledge invincible ignorance etc as exceptions to the dogma. Hence there would be no exceptions in Vatican Council II also, to the dogma. Hence we are back to the traditional ecclesiology and understanding of religious liberty. The Council does not contradict the dogma on salvation or the Syllabus of Errors.-Lionel Andrades

___________________________________________

“If it is desirable to offer a diagnosis of the text [Gaudium et Spes] as a whole, we might say that (in conjunction with the texts on religious liberty and world religions) it is a revision of the Syllabus of Pius IX, a kind of countersyllabus. [...] Let us be content to say that the text serves as a countersyllabus and, as such, represents, on the part of the Church, an attempt at an official reconciliation with the new era inaugurated in 1789.” (Principles of Catholic Theology, 1987, pp. 381-2, Ignatius Press 1987)

ttp://www.romancatholicism.org/vatican-ii.htm

 

P. 16- SALZA WRONGLY SAYS THE CONCILIAR ANTIPOPES HAVE NEVER SAID THEY KNOW THEY ARE DEPARTING FROM CATHOLIC TEACHING

John Salza, Second Article, p. 16: “Of course, the conciliar popes have never said they know they are departing from Catholic teaching. Expulsion from the Church must be based on malice, not speculation.”

Salza is wrong again. To give just one example that refutes Salza’s claim, in his book Principles of Catholic Theology, Antipope Benedict XVI admits that Vatican II’s teaching on religious liberty (to which Benedict XVI adheres) contradicts the magisterial teaching of Pope Pius IX in the Syllabus of Errors (1864). That the two contradict each other is obvious to any honest person who studies the issue.

Benedict XVI, Principles of Catholic Theology, 1982, p. 381: "If it is desirable to offer a diagnosis of the text [of the Vatican II document, Gaudium et Spes] as a whole, we might say that (in conjunction with the texts on religious liberty and world religions) it is a revision of the Syllabus of Pius IX, a kind of counter syllabus… As a result, the one-sidedness of the position adopted by the Church under Pius IX and Pius X in response to the situation created by the new phase of history inaugurated by the French Revolution, was, to a large extent, corrected..."

Benedict XVI admits here that Vatican II’s teaching (to which he adheres) is directly contrary to the teaching of the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX. In other words, he admits that Vatican II’s teaching is contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Magisterium. One could hardly ask for more of a confirmation that the teaching of Vatican II is heretical. In his book, Benedict XVI repeats this again and again, calling the teaching of Vatican II “the countersyllabus,” and saying that there can be no return to the Syllabus of Errors!

Benedict XVI, Principles of Catholic Theology, 1982, p. 385: "By a kind of inner necessity, therefore, the optimism of the countersyllabus gave way to a new cry that was far more intense and more dramatic than the former one."

Benedict XVI, Principles of Catholic Theology, 1982, p. 391: " The task is not, therefore, to suppress the Council but to discover the real Council and to deepen its true intention in the light of present experience. That means that there can be no return to the Syllabus, which may have marked the first stage in the confrontation with liberalism and a newly conceived Marxism but cannot be the last stage."

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/E-Exchanges.php

Pope Benedict XVI’s objective,factual error in Light of the World(Ignatius) p.107 is contributing to widespread liberalism and dissent in the Catholic Church.

Pope Benedict XVI’s objective,factual error in Light of the World (Ignatius) p.107 is contributing to widespread liberalism and dissent in the Catholic Church. Many Catholics have just accepted the assumption that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are defacto,explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and to Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II.-Lionel Andrades

SATURDAY, APRIL 14, 2012

LIGHT OF THE WORLD ERROR SHOWS THAT THERE ARE NO REAL DOCTRINAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE VATICAN AND THE SSPX

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/light-of-world-error-shows-that-there.html

'Light of the World' p.107 expresses Pope Benedict’s personal opinion or is the ordinary magisterium: the pope wrongly assumes those saved in invincible ignorance are known exceptions to the dogma and the SSPX position on ecumenism and non Catholic religions

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/light-of-world-p107-expresses-pope.html

There could soon be an 'ecclesial rupture' because the Vatican does not want to say that there can be two interpretations of Vatican Council II.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/there-could-soon-be-ecclesial-rupture.html

VATICAN-SSPX NEED TO CALL TIME OUT: ERROR IN LIGHT OF THE WORLD DIRECTLY LINKED TO DIFFERENCES IN ECUMENISM, INTER-RELIGIOUS DIALOGUE, RELIGIOUS LIBERTY WHICH MSGR.NICOLA BUX MENTIONED

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/vatican-sspx-need-to-call-time-out.html

HOLY FATHER ASSUMES THOSE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE ARE KNOWN TO US: CONTRADICTS VATICAN COUNCIL I AND II

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/holy-father-assumes-those-saved-in.html

HOLY FATHER MAKES AN OBJECTIVE ERROR IN WRITING

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/holy-father-makes-objective-error-in.html

DID THE POPE REALLY DENY THE FAITH ON THE NEED FOR JEWS TO CONVERT ?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/did-pope-really-deny-faith-on-need-for.html

ANIVERSARY OF THE DENIAL OF THE FAITH BY THE MAGISTERIUM ?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/aniversary-of-denial-of-faith-by.html

The International Theological Commission's position paper Christianity and the World Religions 1997 has an objective factual error and is approved by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger : invincible ignorance is not an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/international-theological-commissions.html

INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION ASSUMES ‘SEEDS OF THE WORD’ (VATICAN COUNCIL II ) IN OTHER RELIGIONS ARE KNOWN TO US AND THIS IS AN EXPLICIT EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/international-theological-commission.html

VATICAN'S INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION MAKES AN ERROR IN ITS POSITION PAPER CHRISTIANITY AND THE WORLD RELIGIONS

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/vaticans-international-theological.html

Bishop Fellay, Fr.Schmidberger,FSSP,Joseph Fenton seem unaware the baptism of desire is not an explicit exception to the dogma

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/bishop-fellay-frschmidbergerfsspjoseph.html

'Light of the World' p.107 expresses Pope Benedict’s personal opinion or is the ordinary magisterium: the pope wrongly assumes those saved in invincible ignorance are known exceptions to the dogma and the SSPX position on ecumenism and non Catholic religions

A comment on this blog says that in Light of the World (Ignatius)p.107 the Holy Father was only expressing a personal opinion.Whether it was his personal opinion or the ordinary magisterium there was a factual, objective error.

I respect Pope Benedict XVI and I value what he writes.The point I wanted to make was that we do not know explicit cases of those saved in invincible ignorance etc as the pope assumes. Since we do not know any of these cases they are not explicit exceptions to the ancient teaching that there is exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church only and there are no (known) exceptions.

Since the pope makes this error he assumes that Vatican Council II mentions exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Since he thinks there are so many exceptions ( seeds of the Word, good conscience etc),then for him, the traditional position on ecumenism and other religions of the Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) is flawed. He would expect the SSPX to accept that there are defacto known cases of non Catholics in the present time (2011-2012 ) saved in invincible ignorance etc.We know there are no such cases.

These cases are always possibilities. They can never be defacto known to us. Since they are only possibilities always, they do not contradict the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which says all need to convert into the Church for salvation. It also does not contradict Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II which states all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.

The SSPX needs to publicly state that there are no known exceptions to the dogma mentioned in Vatican Council II. There are no reference texts.

Also before any decision is taken on the SSPX a public clarification (non secret) should be asked of the the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith,Vatican.

The pope approved two position papers of the International Theological Commission(ITC) with the same error. The two papers are

1.

Christianity and the World Religions(1997)

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_cti_1997_cristianesimo-religioni_en.html.

2. THE HOPE OF SALVATION FOR INFANTS WHO DIE WITHOUT BEING BAPTISED

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

The President of the ITC was Cardinal Luiz Ladaria, Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. He represented the Vatican in failed talks with the SSPX. They differed over the issue of ecumenism, inter religious dialogue and religious liberty indicated by  the Open Letter to the SSPX by Mnsgr.Nicola Bux, Consultant to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Office of Liturgical Celebrations of the Pope .

It may be mentioned that though the pope made the objective error in the book by Peter Seewald in none of the magisterial documents, including those issued by Cardinal Ratzinger and then Pope Benedict XVI,  is it said that those saved in invincible ignorance etc are known to us personally or that they are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.No magisterial text including that of Vatican Council II makes this error.

-Lionel Andrades
_______________________________________

There is no reference text in Vatican Council II contrary to the SSPX position on other religions, ecumenism
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/there-is-no-reference-text-in-vatican.html#links

CONDITIONS FOR THE SSPX TO 'ENTER THE CHURCH'
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/conditions-for-sspx-to-enter-church.html#links

There could soon be an 'ecclesial rupture' because the Vatican does not want to say that there can be two interpretations of Vatican Council II.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/there-could-soon-be-ecclesial-rupture.html

CATHOLICS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD PRAYED TODAY FOR 'HERETICS AND SCHISMATICS': DIVINE MERCY NOVENA
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/catholics-throughout-world-prayed-today.html

VATICAN-SSPX NEED TO CALL TIME OUT: ERROR IN LIGHT OF THE WORLD DIRECTLY LINKED TO DIFFERENCES IN ECUMENISM, INTER-RELIGIOUS DIALOGUE, RELIGIOUS LIBERTY WHICH MSGR.NICOLA BUX MENTIONED
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/vatican-sspx-need-to-call-time-out.html

HOLY FATHER ASSUMES THOSE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE ARE KNOWN TO US: CONTRADICTS VATICAN COUNCIL I AND II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/holy-father-assumes-those-saved-in.html

HOLY FATHER MAKES AN OBJECTIVE ERROR IN WRITING
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/holy-father-makes-objective-error-in.html

The Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ says Nostra Aetate 4,Vatican Council II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/jewish-authorities-and-those-who.html

DID THE POPE REALLY DENY THE FAITH ON THE NEED FOR JEWS TO CONVERT ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/did-pope-really-deny-faith-on-need-for.html

ANIVERSARY OF THE DENIAL OF THE FAITH BY THE MAGISTERIUM ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/aniversary-of-denial-of-faith-by.html

THE ‘SECRET TALKS’ WERE USEFUL FOR THE CDF TO CHANGE CHURCH-TEACHING WITH NO RELEVANT TEXT FROM VATICAN COUNCIL II

The Vatican-SSPX talks were held behind closed doors. Catholics till today are not informed about what were the precise doctrinal differences. Everything is still a secret.

The Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) has been asked to accept the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) position since the magisterium is always correct.

We are called to be the light of the world, the salt of the earth and not to hide our faith in a bushel basket. Yet everything was so secret and it still is.

The people just know that by next week there could be an ‘ecclesial rupture’ because the SSPX rejects the Jewish Left liberal version of Vatican Council II.

Why should we have to accept new doctrines in the name of Vatican Council II and with no supportive text in the Council?

Nowhere in Vatican Council II is it written that we should receive the Eucharist in our hand and nowhere in Vatican Council II, in the name of collegiality or what not, is it mentioned that there are explicit, defacto exceptions to exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church.

Bad enough that these new doctrines are held by so many Catholics but now they are likely to excommunicate people for not accepting the deception.

The Bishops Conference of England and Wales website indicates that Lumen Gentium 16 refers to explicitly known cases of non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance.(1) In the past you would expect the CDF to correct them. Now the CDF is making the same mistake. It has approved the same error on the website of the International Theological Commission.

The CDF also assumes LG 16 etc are defacto known exceptions to the SSPX understanding of ecumenism and inter religious dialogue.

Then there are norms for the Tridentine Rite Mass which are violated according to Universae Ecclesiae issued by Ecclesia Dei. Since every priest who offers the Traditional Latin Mass is expected to accept all the dogmas of the Catholic Church. Yet there are good priests who assume that invincible ignorance etc are defacto exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.(2) One just has to accept all this since the pope in Light of the World p.107 makes the same error.

Similarly the Archbishop Emeritus Kevin McDonald of Southwark implies the 'seeds of the Word' in other religions is the ordinary means of salvation and these exceptions are explicitly known.(3) Daphne McLeod says that we do not know any of these cases saved with invincible ignorance… of for that matter ‘seeds of the Word’.(4) But what difference does it make ? How could Daphne McLeod expect the CDF to do anything when they them self are hit by the virus.

Now behind closed doors the CDF assumes that invincible ignorance etc are defacto exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church. So they believe in secret talks that the SSPX position on ecumenism and other religions is wrong. Then in secret they tell the SSPX that there are doctrinal differences and that they need to accept Vatican Council II with no relevant supportive texts or face an ecclesial rupture by next week.-Lionel Andrades

1

BISHOPS CONFERENCE OF ENGLAND AND WALES SAYS LUMEN GENTIUM 16 REFERS TO EXPLICITLY KNOWN CASES OF NON CATHOLIC SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/bishops-conference-of-england-and-wales.html

2

NORMS FOR THE TRIDENTINE RITE MASS VIOLATED?

PRIESTS OFFERING EXTRAORDINARY FORM OF MASS IN ROME DO NOT MEET CONDITIONS OF UNIVERSAE ECCLESIAE : INSTRUCTIONS OF ECCLESIA DEI

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/norms-for-tridentine-rite-mass-violated.html

3.

Archbishop Emeritus Kevin McDonald of Southwark implies the 'seeds of the Word' in other religions is the ordinary means of salvation and these exceptions are explicitly known

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/archbishop-emeritus-kevin-mcdonald-of.html

4.

NON CATHOLICS CAN BE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE, BAPTISM OF DESIRE AND IT DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS- Daphne McLeod, Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice, England

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/non-catholics-can-be-saved-in.html

There could soon be an 'ecclesial rupture' because the Vatican does not want to say that there can be two interpretations of Vatican Council II.

If the pope does not know personally of non Catholics saved in 2012 in invincible ignorance and when Vatican Council II does not make this claim of knowing explicit cases in real life how can the magisterium reject the SSPX doctrinal position on other religions, ecumenism and dialogue?

The SSPX (Society of St.Pius X) is not obliged to accept an interpretation of Vatican Council II with no supporting text on ecumenism and inter religious dialogue. Nowhere does Vatican Council II say Judaism is a path to salvation or that Jews are saved in general in their religion. Instead the Magisterium is unable to say in public that Vatican Council II (AG 7) says Judaism and other religions are not paths to salvation and that Catholics are the Chosen People of God (NA 4).

Why does the SSPX have to accept Vatican Council II when the pope and his Curia will not affirm Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II?

The Holy Father is not proclaiming the Faith for political reasons and the falsehood and lies are being repeated by thousands of Catholics to protect their self interest or due to ignorance.

There could soon be an 'ecclesial rupture' because the Vatican does not want to say that there can be two interpretations of Vatican Council II. One according to the text of Vatican Council II and the other due to political necessity and survival and with no references from Vatican Council II text.

I repeat - Vatican Council II does not mention a visible baptism of desire or known- to- us- in- Heaven-cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience or seeds of the Word. So there is no doctrinal basis for rejecting the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II. SSPX was in agreement with Vatican Council II on ecumenism, inter religious dialogue and religious liberty in the Vatican-SSPX failed talks.

The Vatican needs to clarify in public if they know any case of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance, the seeds of the Word and a good conscience.

If the answer is No then they should permit the SSPC not to accept Vatican Council II (Jewish Left version) - with the Vatican agreeing to clarify the issue over time.

Catholics should sign petitions and place advertisements in the newspapers asking a politically oriented Curia how can those saved in invincible ignorance and a good conscience in the year 2012, be explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and so how can the SSPX position on ecumenism and inter religious dialogue be wrong?

Catechism Teachers should ask the Vatican how can they excommunicate the SSPX for affirming the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (in accord with Vatican Council II) when there is no contradicting text in Vatican Council II to reject the SSPX position on other religions?

Religious communities ask the Vatican why you all cannot accept the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus and also implicit baptism of desire and invincible ignorance. Until this issue is settled there should not be an 'ecclesial rupture' with the SSPX.

Assuming Fr. Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for denying invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire (and he was not!) you can go ahead and affirm implicit invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire and also the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus?

Catholic religious communities who attend the Novus Ordo Mass why cannot you accept the literal interpretation of extra ecclesism nulla salus and also implicit baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance implicitly,this being known only to God ?

It is the magisterium's doctrinal position which is irrational and contrary to common sense? SSPX please ask the Vatican spokesman if he actually knows any case of a non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance. Is there a visible baptism of desire?

If the pope does not know of any person saved in invincible ignorance and now in Heaven and when Vatican Council II does not make this claim of knowing in real life explicit cases  inHeaven, how can the magisterium reject the SSPX doctrinal position on other religions, ecumenism and dialogue?

Even though the SSPX rejects Vatican Council II (Jewish Left version) they should start talking with the Vatican in terms of Vatican Council II: ask the Vatican Curia to cite texts in Vatican Council II which contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?

Also, how can the Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF), Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J , as the former President of the International Theological Commission (ITC) reject the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Nicene Creed, Vatican Council II (AG 7) and still offer Holy Mass ?.This heresy can be viewed on the ITC’s website.

When the pope says in Light of the World (Ignatius) p.107 that all who are saved are saved through Jesus we must note it has two meanings.

1. All who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church and this is our general Catholic belief, which we accept.There is no controversy here.

2. However the theological meaning is that all who are saved are saved either in invincible ignorance, a good conscience, and the baptism of desire etc or with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.

Then the pope also says in Light of the Wolrd p.107 that there is only ‘one channel’ of salvation. he says there is only one way of salvation. implying the one mentioned  above.

This is false theologically since the one channel of salvation in the Catholic Church has always been through Jesus in the Catholic Church. We don’t know any case of a non Catholic saved invincible ignorance etc as the pope would wrongly assume.

When the pope makes an objective, factual error one can expect the rest of the Church to be confused or in error.

I ask Catholic priests these questions and they do not answer. Some say they do not know the answer and others say that they have not specialized in this or that.When I ask them if I can record their answer with my camera they say no.They will agree that one needs to proclaim the Faith and not be ashamed of it.-Lionel Andrades

HOLY FATHER ASSUMES THOSE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE ARE KNOWN TO US: CONTRADICTS VATICAN COUNCIL I AND II

I wish I did not have to write this and someone else would carry the weight. I respect the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI, he is my pope. However he made an objective error and he or others can easily correct it.

In the book Light of the World (Ignatius), conversations with Peter Seewald the Holy Father makes two statements which could be misunderstood.

The pope says:

1. 'I modified it ( Good Friday Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews ) in such a way that… one did not pray directly for the conversion of the Jews…'- Light of the World- p.107

2. ‘ I altered the text in such a way as to express our faith that Christ is the Savior for all, that there are not two channels of salvation…’-Light of the World.p.107

The first statement on Jews not having to convert in the present time is heresy. It contradicts the Nicene Creed, the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, Vatican Council II (AG 7) and the Bible (John 3:5, Mk 16: 16 etc).It also contradicts other magisterial documents issued during the pontificate of Pope John Paul II. (Dominus Iesus 20 etc).

The second statement about there being only one channel of salvation and all who are saved are saved through Jesus Christ is true as a general concept. The Holy Father however means this as an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and to Vatican Council II (AG 7) which says all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.

Pope Benedict assumes that all those persons saved in invincible ignorance and with a good conscience (LG 16) etc are known to us. So they could be explicit exceptions to AG 7, Vatican Council II and Cantate Domino, Council of Florence.They cannot be known exceptions since these cases are known only to God.

So the pope’s one channel of salvation is flawed.

The one way of salvation is Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church His Mystical Body and if there are non Catholics  saved in invincible ignorance etc it would be known only to God.

For centuries the one channel of salvation was Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for all with no exception. It was in the 1940’s that Cardinal Richard Cushing, Archbishop of Boston and the Jesuits there assumed that those saved in invincible ignorance etc were explicit exceptions to the dogma and to the literal interpretation of Fr. Leonard Feeney.

The Letter of the Holy Office does state that Fr. Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for heresy. It mentions disobedience. The Church lifted the excommunication without him having to recant.

Like Fr. Leonard Feeney both Vatican Councils, I and II, clearly teach that formal membership in the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation.(1).-Lionel Andrades

(1)

Friday, March 2, 2012

The Vatican Councils of the Catholic Church have clearly taught that formal membership in the Catholic Church IS absolutely necessary for salvation.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/vatican-councils-of-catholic-church.html

Monday, April 9, 2012

HOLY FATHER MAKES AN OBJECTIVE ERROR IN WRITING
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/holy-father-makes-objective-error-in.html#links

Sunday, April 8, 2012

DID THE POPE REALLY DENY THE FAITH ON THE NEED FOR JEWS TO CONVERT ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/did-pope-really-deny-faith-on-need-for.html

Wednesday, February 29, 2012

Ultra Traditonalists in accord with Vatican Council II on extra ecclesiam nulla salus

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/02/ultra-traditonalists-in-accord-with.html

Wednesday, February 29, 2012

When one is clear that all those saved are explicit only in Heaven it is not difficult to affirm ‘the formal necessity of belonging to the Church’.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/02/when-one-is-clear-that-all-those-saved.html

Wednesday, February 29, 2012

Whether they know it or not non Catholics with the stain of Original Sin on their soul and mortal sins committed in that state and without the Sacraments outside of which there is no salvation, are all oriented to Hell

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/02/whether-they-know-it-or-not-non.html

Wednesday, February 29, 2012

Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church is in agreement with the rigorist interpretation of outside the church no salvation

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/02/blog-post.html

Thursday, March 1, 2012

The Catholic Legate - John Pacecho, Art Sippo,Peter Vere contradict each other ?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/catholic-legate-john-pacecho-art.html

 

Friday, March 2, 2012

Being saved in invincible ignorance is not a defacto exception to the teach being-saved-in-invincible-ignorance-is.htmling of Cantate Domino Council of Florence

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/being-saved-in-invincible-ignorance-is.html

Friday, March 2, 2012

No pope has said that those saved in invincible ignorance are known to us and so are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/no-pope-has-said-that-those-saved-in.html

Saturday, March 3, 2012

ALL THE CATECHISMS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAVE TAUGHT THE RIGORIST VIEW OF EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/all-catechisms-of-catholic-church-have.html

Saturday, March 3, 2012

IF THE LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949 CONSIDERED THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE AS A DEFACTO EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA IT WOULD BE AN OBJECTIVE ERROR: WE DON’T KNOW ANY SUCH CASE

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/if-letter-of-holy-office-1949.html

Sunday, March 4, 2012

Catholic Legate, Canada uses a defacto-defacto interpretation of magisterial texts: who gave them permission? No magisterial document recommends this analysis

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/catholic-legate-canada-uses-defacto.html

HOLY FATHER MAKES AN OBJECTIVE ERROR IN WRITING

Excommunicated priests could cry foul: Members of the SSPX need to appeal to the pope to affirm Vatican Council II (AG 7) in public.

It’s all there in writing.Dissent from a religious. Not a liberal priest or bishop, but Our Holy Father the pope himself.

It’s hard to believe. It was something that was a suspicion for a long time but there was no proof.Now the pope has made an error and put it in writing. He can no more stay behind the secret, confidential memos and telephone calls or cardinal - bishop proxies.

The pope’s error is not ex cathedra but it is a public error contradicting the ex cathedra statements of popes and Church Councils but worse still, to would seem for some, it’s a common sense error.

Perhaps it was inadvertant and no ill will was intended.Let us give our Holy Father the benefit of the doubt.

The error, among other things, shows that the Vatican is in no position to demand that the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) accept Vatican Council II (Jewish Left version) when the pope himself is rejecting Vatican Council II , Ad Gentes 7 and misunderstanding Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II.(1)

The SSPX on April 15, the deadline for their response to the March 16 Vatican statement, should ask the pope or the Vatican spokesman, to clarify their position on AG 7 and LG 16 and the factual error made by the pope in writing.

How can there be ‘an ecclesial rupture of painful and incalculable consequences’ when the Vatican itself cannot affirm Vatican Council II according to common sense, reason and simple objectivity.

Here’s the problem for all to see:

The Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI tells Peter Seewald in the book Light of the World- Conversations with  Peter Seewald  (Ignatius) that there is only one way of salvation and all who are saved are saved through Jesus.

This is a simple statement and acceptable. All good Catholics can agree with the Holy Father.He implies that all non Catholics are saved with the baptsm of water and Catholic Faith or, in invincible ignorance,a good conscience and other implicit forms of salvation known only to God and unknown to us.

So this is the one way of salvation.

But there is a problem here and it may not show itself unless you think it through.

The Holy Father is saying that the one way of salvation is not just Catholic Faith and the baptism of water (AG 7, Vatican Council II) but also being saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience (LG 16, Vatican Council II) etc.

So when AG 7 states all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water the Holy Father says “No, Not all.”- the exceptions are those who are in invincible ignorance, a good conscience  (LG 16) etc and are saved. There are exceptions.

There are exceptions to AG 7 ?

Did Vatican Council II make a mistake?

Is Vatican Council II irrational, illogical ?

How can Vatican Council II like the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus say all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water ?

Something is wrong, somewhere?!

Now we come to the heart of the problem.The Richard Cushing Error.The objective flaw. And the Holy Father also fell for it.

It’s simple. It’s so simple that many will not believe it.

We don’t know anyone on earth saved in invincible ignorance or a good conscience.

Objectively we don’t know anyone in this category.They are in Heaven and are known only to God.

So the one way of salvation is not all who are saved through Jesus and the Church as the Holy Father told Peter Seewald.

The pope assumes that those saved in invincible ignorance etc are known to us and so they are an exception to AG 7.He also assumes that LG 16 refers to explicitly known cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance and with a good conscience.

This is an objective, factual error. We cannot meet or telephone someone saved in invincible ignorance. So it is not an explicit, defacto exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus  and the centuries-old one way of salvation for all.

So when the Vatican asks the SSPX to affirm Vatican Council II the SSPX should ask the Vatican to clarify LG 16 and AG 7, what is the Vatican’s position on this objective error of the pope?

Ask the Vatican spokesman if he knows anyone personally saved in invincible ignorance or a good conscience.

Catholic priests in Rome, to whom I have asked this question, say they don’t know a single such case.- Lionel Andrades

1.

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church’s preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself “by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.- Ad Gentes 7

This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church.-Lumen Gentium 14

Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.-Lumen Gentium 16

Sunday, April 8, 2012
DID THE POPE REALLY DENY THE FAITH ON THE NEED FOR JEWS TO CONVERT ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/did-pope-really-deny-faith-on-need-for.html