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SEDEVACANTISM DISMANTLED IN FOUR STEPS!

REVTHREEVS21
83
SEDEVACANTISM DISMANTLED IN FOUR STEPS!!!!!!!!
kfarley
The retarded Koala returns.
kfarley
That is very harsh coming from a koala! I don't know how to take that-who can be mad at a koala bear even when they're lashing out at you? Thank you my little furry friend! I promise I'll visit you at the zoo this weekend and if possible bring those little koala doughnuts you enjoyed so much the last time. I'm sorry to have spoiled your day and I feel guilty because when you upset a koala bear …More
That is very harsh coming from a koala! I don't know how to take that-who can be mad at a koala bear even when they're lashing out at you? Thank you my little furry friend! I promise I'll visit you at the zoo this weekend and if possible bring those little koala doughnuts you enjoyed so much the last time. I'm sorry to have spoiled your day and I feel guilty because when you upset a koala bear there is not much pleasure you can gain from the experience.
7 more comments from kfarley
kfarley
I'm at work now. I already told you that Mr. koala. I think short-term memory is possibly non-existent in you. I've noticed this pattern in your non-cognitive brain functioning.
kfarley
Weaver I can't be sure where you'll go after death. You are sedevacantist which is a very bad thing but hell may have a basic IQ standard and since you did not recognize a symbol of the Blessed Trinity the demons may find you too stupid to torment.
kfarley
Don't feel bad Weaver, koala bears have never been mentioned as one of the more intelligent beasts. You did not understand a picture of the Holy Trinity and you probably do not understand much of anything and that is why sedevacantism and you are a perfect fit!
kfarley
Weaver my "gay flying pigeons" symbol as you call it is The Father, The Son & The Holy Spirit-3 doves and the sun meaning 1 God. The Blessed Trinity. Sedevacantists like you are a sorry lot. Do you understand the picture now oh brilliant one?
kfarley
Weaver you are truly retarded. I think I'll ask Doina to get a poll function going on Gloria tv to vote like on American Idol. We could ask everyone on Gloria to vote yes if you think the koala bear named Weaver is severely retarded. Weaver I think the massive voting in favor of this proposition might completely shut this website down! Do you not realize how stupid you are? I cannot get into the …More
Weaver you are truly retarded. I think I'll ask Doina to get a poll function going on Gloria tv to vote like on American Idol. We could ask everyone on Gloria to vote yes if you think the koala bear named Weaver is severely retarded. Weaver I think the massive voting in favor of this proposition might completely shut this website down! Do you not realize how stupid you are? I cannot get into the mind of a pscho/retard but describe what it is like as best you can.
kfarley
Weaver even your choice of a koala picture was a stupid one. Trady is as stupid as you are but at least he had enough sense to use a knight on horseback for his Gloria photo-you use a koala bear! Making arguments as a koala bear is never a good selling point.
kfarley
Weaver you are truly a pawn of satan! It just goes to show how satan uses sedevacantists-he needs to use people who are low-functioning-that is the tragedy Weaver-it's idiots like you satan can fool easily.
REVTHREEVS21
WEAVER, how does it feel to be a pawn of the devil...lol...I will post this again...read it and WEEP! A Letter from a Devil on the Assisi Event
(in the style of Screwtape Letters)

A Letter from a Devil on Assisi: Traditionalist Misunderstandings

Dear Sneakylick,
I am very happy that you took my advice. Your patient is now leaning toward Radical Traditionalism. And I know what will make him …More
WEAVER, how does it feel to be a pawn of the devil...lol...I will post this again...read it and WEEP! A Letter from a Devil on the Assisi Event
(in the style of Screwtape Letters)

A Letter from a Devil on Assisi: Traditionalist Misunderstandings

Dear Sneakylick,
I am very happy that you took my advice. Your patient is now leaning toward Radical Traditionalism. And I know what will make him cross that line! One word: Assisi. When someone hears that word, they usually think of that stupid hippy Francis. "Make me a channel of your peace." Yuck! But we can redefine Assisi. You see, the Enemy's Vicar has done something which is very controversial. He invited unbelievers to pray with him! This sickens me. This is why.
You see, the 20th century was our century. We made countries fight each other in almost every decade. We got people to think of man as an object, instead of a subject. We got people to think that man was a mere production of economy. We also got people to think that if you are a certain race, religion, or culture, you are not a person. Not only that, we got them to persecute them! We murdered millions and millions and millions of people. Everywhere you go, there were condemnations. We hate Jews! We hate Blacks! We hate Catholics! I loved it! If not, they were also troubled because they had little money because of the depression. We made man depressed! They had no more hope!
The Enemy's Church knew this. She knew that that man wanted hope. To do this, she had to change her approach on teaching doctrines. She didn't want to follow the "Spirit of the Age" of condemnation. Instead, she wanted to teach truth against the false philosophies, to show that her doctrines are better than the false ones. When I made a person teach false humanism, she striked back teaching authentic humanism: that the perfection of man is life with the Enemy.
She also found a way to evangelize: ecumenism. She prefers to dialogue with other religions. You see, I made people have an "open mind." This means that they hate anything which sounds close-minded. In other words, they are close-minded when it comes to close-mindedness. So when the Enemy taught that His Son is the Only way, people rejected it because it did not feel right and not very open minded. We got people of hating Catholic doctrines such as existence of hell, that the Catholic Church is the only true Church, and so on. In fact, I made them hate Catholic doctrine so much, that they don't even want to hear it.
The Enemy's Church then made a new strategy. She knows that they don't like to hear those things, so she will present something which both parties agree on and work from there. For example, that ArchIdiot Fulton J. Sheen said that the only way to convert Muslims is through Our Lady of Fatima. He said,
"In any apologetic endeavor, it is always best to start with that which people already accept. Because the Moslems have a devotion to Mary, our missionaries should be satisfied merely to expand and to develop that devotion, with the full realization that Our Blessed Lady will carry the Moslems the rest of the way to her Divine Son." (The World's First Love, page 204)
This is what the Enemy's Church did at Assisi. That old charismatic idiot John Paul wanted to have a dialogue. He invited them to pray. Why? Because he wanted to soften their prejudice and dialogue is needed for it. At the same time, he will sneak in the Gospel. Of course, the Church does not condemn this, but your patient doesn't know that. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange once said,
"It might be expedient for such to associate commonly with pagans and Jews in order to forward the work of their conversion, at least negatively, by softening of prejudice." (The Theological Virtues: Volume One On Faith, B Herder Book Co [1965], page 417)
But don't let your patient see this! Don't even let him try to see the rationale for this event. Make him the judge. Make him condemn the Pope! This is what we want! He doesn't know that communicating with unbelievers isn't necessarily evil, but they should be cautious of it. And if a doubt were to arise about the sufficiency of reason, the bishop should have the decisive last word (ibid). But he doesn't know that. He lives in a country where professors have to be refuted. He has a "debate" mentality. Every error must be refuted. Make him think that the only approach of evangelization is, "Go to Jesus Christ or go to hell!" And if they hear someone saying otherwise, he will refute it. Even though this is not in itself wrong, the Church prefers not to do this. However, make your patient think that the "debate" mentality is the only approach of evangelization. But most of all, never make him read what John Paul preached at the Assisi event itself! Don't make him read things like:
"...I profess here anew my conviction, shared by all Christians, that in Jesus Christ, as Savior of all, true peace is to be found, 'peace to those who are far off and peace to those who are near'" (Cf. Eph 2.17).
and
"His birth was greeted by the angels' song: Glory to God in the highest and peace among men with whom He is pleased" (Cf. Lk 2:14). He preached love among all, even among foes, proclaimed blessed those who work for peace (Cf. Mt 5:9), and through His death and resurrection He brought about reconciliation between heaven and earth (Cf. Col.1:20). To use an expression of Paul the Apostle, 'He is our peace.'" (Eph.2:14).
If he does read it, make him critique it! Make him say, "But look! It doesn't say Jesus is the ONLY peace! This implies that there can be other ways of achieving peace without Jesus!" Of course, it does not imply that at all, but who cares about truth! By condemning the Pope's teaching, he is condemning Paul's teaching and he doesn't even know it! John Paul is only restating what Paul preached.
But you can make your patient say things like, "But it doesn't say enough! It doesn't say, if you don't convert, you will go to hell!" You see, the Pope could have done that, but didn't. If he said something like that dialogue will be lost and we might have won their soul. But the Pope hates us. He doesn't want them to lose their souls to us. So he says only enough truth that is sufficient for them to hear. They believe in peace, and the Pope says Jesus Christ is the true peace. This might make them re-think their views of Catholicism. This might make them think that Catholicism isn't just condemnation and hell, but also a good and peaceful religion. But your patient doesn't know this. And don't let him know! Don't let him see the rationale for doing it!
Also, when the Pope wanted to have a dialogue, he permitted them to pray according to their own religion. Of course, if a person has religious freedom in any land, he should have religious freedom on the Church's home turf as well. John Paul permitted them to pray so that they can have a dialogue and he can preach the truth. This is because prayer itself is not wrong. No one knows or can control what a pagan for example, will pray to. If he pray to the false god, the Enemy might answer if it pleases Him.
This is the big distinction which you cannot afford to let your patient know. John Paul did not say, "pray to your false god." If he did, then he would be preaching falsehood. He invited him to pray, which again, isn't wrong. But your patient doesn't know that and don't let him. Instead, since he is theologically ignorant, make him condemn it. Make him say things like, "Look! He didn't stop them from praying to their false gods!" But if the Pope did do this, all dialogue will be ended and we could have won their souls. However, that old man didn't. He permitted it so that they can have a dialogue.
One final thing. You can make him disagree with Assisi, but your main goal is to make him condemn it publicly. You see, Cardinal Biffi disagreed with John Paul, but he did not publicly dissent from the Pope by writing articles in newspapers, websites, or blogs. What you want him to do is be unlike Cardinal Biffi.
Make him condemn it. After this, his soul is closer to our Father here below.
Your Uncle, Water Strider, senior devil
kfarley
I have to admit Weaver that personally you are so stupid that it is the koala bear picture that actually generates only the slightest reason for me to answer you-I have to pretend I'm actually talking to a retarded koala bear to even make this conversation remotely bearable.
REVTHREEVS21
WEAVER: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA, YOUR NOT A CATHOLIC WEAVER, YOUR AN ANTI-CATHOLIC PROTESTANT IDIOT. LOOK AT WHAT YOUR DOING...I TOTALLY LOVE YOU....MEET BOTH MY SWORDS, YOU LOSER....the Pope Kissing the Koran....your a pawn of the Devil, Weaver. YOUR WEAK! YOUR A SPIRITUAL CHILD....THE DEVIL, PRAYS ON WEAK, INDIVIDUALS LIKE YOU!
A Letter from a Devil on the Assisi Event
(…
More
WEAVER: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA, YOUR NOT A CATHOLIC WEAVER, YOUR AN ANTI-CATHOLIC PROTESTANT IDIOT. LOOK AT WHAT YOUR DOING...I TOTALLY LOVE YOU....MEET BOTH MY SWORDS, YOU LOSER....the Pope Kissing the Koran....your a pawn of the Devil, Weaver. YOUR WEAK! YOUR A SPIRITUAL CHILD....THE DEVIL, PRAYS ON WEAK, INDIVIDUALS LIKE YOU!
A Letter from a Devil on the Assisi Event
(in the style of Screwtape Letters)

A Letter from a Devil on Assisi: Traditionalist Misunderstandings

Dear Sneakylick,
I am very happy that you took my advice. Your patient is now leaning toward Radical Traditionalism. And I know what will make him cross that line! One word: Assisi. When someone hears that word, they usually think of that stupid hippy Francis. "Make me a channel of your peace." Yuck! But we can redefine Assisi. You see, the Enemy's Vicar has done something which is very controversial. He invited unbelievers to pray with him! This sickens me. This is why.
You see, the 20th century was our century. We made countries fight each other in almost every decade. We got people to think of man as an object, instead of a subject. We got people to think that man was a mere production of economy. We also got people to think that if you are a certain race, religion, or culture, you are not a person. Not only that, we got them to persecute them! We murdered millions and millions and millions of people. Everywhere you go, there were condemnations. We hate Jews! We hate Blacks! We hate Catholics! I loved it! If not, they were also troubled because they had little money because of the depression. We made man depressed! They had no more hope!
The Enemy's Church knew this. She knew that that man wanted hope. To do this, she had to change her approach on teaching doctrines. She didn't want to follow the "Spirit of the Age" of condemnation. Instead, she wanted to teach truth against the false philosophies, to show that her doctrines are better than the false ones. When I made a person teach false humanism, she striked back teaching authentic humanism: that the perfection of man is life with the Enemy.
She also found a way to evangelize: ecumenism. She prefers to dialogue with other religions. You see, I made people have an "open mind." This means that they hate anything which sounds close-minded. In other words, they are close-minded when it comes to close-mindedness. So when the Enemy taught that His Son is the Only way, people rejected it because it did not feel right and not very open minded. We got people of hating Catholic doctrines such as existence of hell, that the Catholic Church is the only true Church, and so on. In fact, I made them hate Catholic doctrine so much, that they don't even want to hear it.
The Enemy's Church then made a new strategy. She knows that they don't like to hear those things, so she will present something which both parties agree on and work from there. For example, that ArchIdiot Fulton J. Sheen said that the only way to convert Muslims is through Our Lady of Fatima. He said,
"In any apologetic endeavor, it is always best to start with that which people already accept. Because the Moslems have a devotion to Mary, our missionaries should be satisfied merely to expand and to develop that devotion, with the full realization that Our Blessed Lady will carry the Moslems the rest of the way to her Divine Son." (The World's First Love, page 204)
This is what the Enemy's Church did at Assisi. That old charismatic idiot John Paul wanted to have a dialogue. He invited them to pray. Why? Because he wanted to soften their prejudice and dialogue is needed for it. At the same time, he will sneak in the Gospel. Of course, the Church does not condemn this, but your patient doesn't know that. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange once said,
"It might be expedient for such to associate commonly with pagans and Jews in order to forward the work of their conversion, at least negatively, by softening of prejudice." (The Theological Virtues: Volume One On Faith, B Herder Book Co [1965], page 417)
But don't let your patient see this! Don't even let him try to see the rationale for this event. Make him the judge. Make him condemn the Pope! This is what we want! He doesn't know that communicating with unbelievers isn't necessarily evil, but they should be cautious of it. And if a doubt were to arise about the sufficiency of reason, the bishop should have the decisive last word (ibid). But he doesn't know that. He lives in a country where professors have to be refuted. He has a "debate" mentality. Every error must be refuted. Make him think that the only approach of evangelization is, "Go to Jesus Christ or go to hell!" And if they hear someone saying otherwise, he will refute it. Even though this is not in itself wrong, the Church prefers not to do this. However, make your patient think that the "debate" mentality is the only approach of evangelization. But most of all, never make him read what John Paul preached at the Assisi event itself! Don't make him read things like:
"...I profess here anew my conviction, shared by all Christians, that in Jesus Christ, as Savior of all, true peace is to be found, 'peace to those who are far off and peace to those who are near'" (Cf. Eph 2.17).
and
"His birth was greeted by the angels' song: Glory to God in the highest and peace among men with whom He is pleased" (Cf. Lk 2:14). He preached love among all, even among foes, proclaimed blessed those who work for peace (Cf. Mt 5:9), and through His death and resurrection He brought about reconciliation between heaven and earth (Cf. Col.1:20). To use an expression of Paul the Apostle, 'He is our peace.'" (Eph.2:14).
If he does read it, make him critique it! Make him say, "But look! It doesn't say Jesus is the ONLY peace! This implies that there can be other ways of achieving peace without Jesus!" Of course, it does not imply that at all, but who cares about truth! By condemning the Pope's teaching, he is condemning Paul's teaching and he doesn't even know it! John Paul is only restating what Paul preached.
But you can make your patient say things like, "But it doesn't say enough! It doesn't say, if you don't convert, you will go to hell!" You see, the Pope could have done that, but didn't. If he said something like that dialogue will be lost and we might have won their soul. But the Pope hates us. He doesn't want them to lose their souls to us. So he says only enough truth that is sufficient for them to hear. They believe in peace, and the Pope says Jesus Christ is the true peace. This might make them re-think their views of Catholicism. This might make them think that Catholicism isn't just condemnation and hell, but also a good and peaceful religion. But your patient doesn't know this. And don't let him know! Don't let him see the rationale for doing it!
Also, when the Pope wanted to have a dialogue, he permitted them to pray according to their own religion. Of course, if a person has religious freedom in any land, he should have religious freedom on the Church's home turf as well. John Paul permitted them to pray so that they can have a dialogue and he can preach the truth. This is because prayer itself is not wrong. No one knows or can control what a pagan for example, will pray to. If he pray to the false god, the Enemy might answer if it pleases Him.
This is the big distinction which you cannot afford to let your patient know. John Paul did not say, "pray to your false god." If he did, then he would be preaching falsehood. He invited him to pray, which again, isn't wrong. But your patient doesn't know that and don't let him. Instead, since he is theologically ignorant, make him condemn it. Make him say things like, "Look! He didn't stop them from praying to their false gods!" But if the Pope did do this, all dialogue will be ended and we could have won their souls. However, that old man didn't. He permitted it so that they can have a dialogue.
One final thing. You can make him disagree with Assisi, but your main goal is to make him condemn it publicly. You see, Cardinal Biffi disagreed with John Paul, but he did not publicly dissent from the Pope by writing articles in newspapers, websites, or blogs. What you want him to do is be unlike Cardinal Biffi.
Make him condemn it. After this, his soul is closer to our Father here below.
Your Uncle, Water Strider, senior devil

YOUR A PAWN OF THE DEVIL, WEAVER....NOTHING MORE OR NOTHING LESS!!!!!!!!!
kfarley
Weaver is happy someone is willing to talk to him-he's used to getting doors slammed in his face.
kfarley
Weaver how many years did they hold you back in school and how long was your brain without oxygen causing your condition-these facts from you would clear things up much more efficiently than you talking about your koala fantasies.
One more comment from kfarley
kfarley
Weaver that's ok-I've had enough fun with you for one night. You are very low-functioning intellectually and have nothing but sexual smears against our Holy Pope because that is where you come from-the gutter. I do thank you however because your postings tonight will have erased any doubt whatsoever of my claims of sedevacantists being psychotic. You did a better job in demonstrating psychosis …More
Weaver that's ok-I've had enough fun with you for one night. You are very low-functioning intellectually and have nothing but sexual smears against our Holy Pope because that is where you come from-the gutter. I do thank you however because your postings tonight will have erased any doubt whatsoever of my claims of sedevacantists being psychotic. You did a better job in demonstrating psychosis then I ever could just making a claim. I'm sure all your fellow sedevacantists are even surprised at what a complete idiot they have grouped themselves with! I can't thank you enough for making the faithful Catholics on this website have no questions any longer about how bad sedevacantism is. You showed them-THANK YOU Weaver!
REVTHREEVS21
KFARLY, GET A LOAD, OF POPE MICHAEL WEAVER, he is AS stupid as Pope Michael. He is posting garbage, FROM ONE, TWISTED SOURCE. What a Joke. You might as well, be posting something from the NATIONAL ENQUIRER...LOL..HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHABABABAHBAABHABHABHBAABHABHABHBAAAHAA
AND YOU ACTUALLY WANT US TO LISTEN TO YOU??? YOUR AN IDIOT WEAVER! YOU BELIEVE, ANYTH…More
KFARLY, GET A LOAD, OF POPE MICHAEL WEAVER, he is AS stupid as Pope Michael. He is posting garbage, FROM ONE, TWISTED SOURCE. What a Joke. You might as well, be posting something from the NATIONAL ENQUIRER...LOL..HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHABABABAHBAABHABHABHBAABHABHABHBAAAHAA
AND YOU ACTUALLY WANT US TO LISTEN TO YOU??? YOUR AN IDIOT WEAVER! YOU BELIEVE, ANYTHING, DON'T YOU! A TRUE, PROTESTANT TO THE BONE! HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA
REVTHREEVS21
LOL AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, WHAT POPE MICHAEL WEAVER, all you can come up, with...is stupid, jaded garbage, from ONE SOURCE, THAT HAS TOTALLY MISREPRESENTED EVERYTHING...THE CHURCH IS DOING! We are laughing hysterically at you! your an idiot, Pope Michael Weaver. Your sources, are TOTALLY FLAWED, A TOTAL MISREPRESENTATION....your an embarrassment, easily …More
LOL AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, WHAT POPE MICHAEL WEAVER, all you can come up, with...is stupid, jaded garbage, from ONE SOURCE, THAT HAS TOTALLY MISREPRESENTED EVERYTHING...THE CHURCH IS DOING! We are laughing hysterically at you! your an idiot, Pope Michael Weaver. Your sources, are TOTALLY FLAWED, A TOTAL MISREPRESENTATION....your an embarrassment, easily fooled....hahahahahahahahahaahahaha, a 5 year old, can see through these lies.....
One more comment from REVTHREEVS21
REVTHREEVS21
Unfortunately Pope Michael Weaver, YOU HAVE BEEN BUSTED....CAUGHT IN MORE LIES...WHY DON'T YOU TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE SO-CALLED, Sex-Change Article, and you can see, where your movement, is so desperate, its lying...

Vatican says 'sex-change' operation
does not change person's gender

By John Norton Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- After years of study, …More
Unfortunately Pope Michael Weaver, YOU HAVE BEEN BUSTED....CAUGHT IN MORE LIES...WHY DON'T YOU TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE SO-CALLED, Sex-Change Article, and you can see, where your movement, is so desperate, its lying...

Vatican says 'sex-change' operation
does not change person's gender

By John Norton Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- After years of study, the Vatican's doctrinal
congregation has sent church leaders a confidential document
concluding that "sex-change" procedures do not change a person's
gender in the eyes of the church.

Consequently, the document instructs bishops never to alter the sex
listed in parish baptismal records and says Catholics who have
undergone "sex-change" procedures are not eligible to marry, be
ordained to the priesthood or enter religious life, according to a
source familiar with the text.

The document was completed in 2000 and sent "sub secretum" (under
secrecy) to the papal representatives in each country to provide
guidance on a case-by-case basis to bishops. But when it became clear
that many bishops were still unaware of its existence, in 2002 the
congregation sent it to the presidents of bishops' conferences as
well.

"The key point is that the (transsexual) surgical operation is so
superficial and external that it does not change the personality. If
the person was male, he remains male. If she was female, she remains
female," said the source.

Bishop Wilton D. Gregory of Belleville, Ill., president of the U.S.
bishops' conference, sent a brief letter to U.S. bishops in October
informing them of the Vatican document and highlighting its
instruction not to alter parish baptismal records, except to make a
notation in the margin when deemed necessary.

"The altered condition of a member of the faithful under civil law
does not change one's canonical condition, which is male or female as
determined at the moment of birth," Bishop Gregory wrote.

The Vatican text defines transsexualism as a psychic disorder of
those whose genetic makeup and physical characteristics are
unambiguously of one sex but who feel that they belong to the
opposite sex. In some cases, the urge is so strong that the person
undergoes a "sex-change" operation to acquire the opposite sex's
external sexual organs. The new organs have no reproductive
function.

The document's conclusions close one area of controversial
speculation that arose in Italy in the late 1980s when a priest
publicly announced he had undergone a "sex-change" operation.

Given church teaching that only males can be validly ordained
priests, the question posed in newspapers at the time was whether a
priest who undergoes a "sex-change" operation remains a priest --
the answer is "yes" -- and whether a woman who undergoes the
procedure can be ordained -- "no."

A Vatican source said the text was prepared largely by Jesuit Father
Urbano Navarrete, now a retired canon law professor at Rome's
Gregorian University.

In 1997, Father Navarrete wrote an article on transsexualism in an
authoritative canon law journal and has been consulted by the
doctrinal congregation on specific cases involving transsexualism and
hermaphroditism.

The priest, citing confidentiality rules, declined to speak on the
record to Catholic News Service for this story.

The Vatican document's specific points include:

-- An analysis of the moral licitness of "sex-change" operations. It
concludes that the procedure could be morally acceptable in certain
extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will "cure" the
patient's internal turmoil.

-- But a source familiar with the document said recent medical evidence
suggested that in a majority of cases the procedure increases the
likelihood of depression and psychic disturbance.

-- A provision giving religious superiors administrative authority to
expel a member of the community who has undergone the procedure. In
most cases of expulsion from religious life, the superior must
conduct a trial.

-- A recommendation of psychiatric treatment and spiritual counseling
for transsexual priests. It suggests they can continue to exercise
their ministry privately if it does not cause scandal.

-- A conclusion that those who undergo sex-change operations are
unsuitable candidates for priesthood and religious life because of
mental instability.

-- A conclusion that people who have undergone a sex-change operation
cannot enter into a valid marriage, either because they would be
marrying someone of the same sex in the eyes of the church or because
their mental state casts doubt on their ability to make and uphold
their marriage vows.

-- An affirmation of the validity of marriages in which one partner
later undergoes the procedure, unless a church tribunal determines
that a transsexual disposition predated the wedding ceremony.

END
kfarley
Weaver-get Jim Condit Jr. to speak with you-you said you thought he was great. I'm betting that even Condit knows that talking with you would make him look stupid so he wouldn't think of it. Come on koala-ask your buddy aboard to agree with your nutty dialogue!
kfarley
I don't have an idea of a pope-I'm not sedevacantist!-Leave it to a dumb koala to make such a statement.
3 more comments from kfarley
kfarley
Weaver I'm not pulling up any of your copy/pastes-I forgot to mention that. I just figured what koala bears find funny would not interest me.
kfarley
This is tiresome. If I was not at work I'd not even be speaking to a gay koala bear. Boredom makes you do things that normally you would not engage in.
kfarley
Weaver I've agreed with you all along that your mental illness is real. Koala bears don't listen very well I suppose. Weaver get your friend Jim Condit Jr. talking with you-it is frustrating not to mention dull to talk to a stupid koala bear like yourself.
REVTHREEVS21
WEAVER:

And your trying to distance yourself, from Pope Michael, Weaver. Let me ask you something, Weaver. When was the LAST TIME, YOU MASTURBATED? To a national Geographic Magazine? When was the Last time, you looked at a woman in Lust?! YOUR A HYPOCRIT, WEAVER. YOUR ACTUALLY ATTACKING JPII FOR his attempt to dialog, with other religions, but yet, you probably, almost assuredly, had NEVER …More
WEAVER:

And your trying to distance yourself, from Pope Michael, Weaver. Let me ask you something, Weaver. When was the LAST TIME, YOU MASTURBATED? To a national Geographic Magazine? When was the Last time, you looked at a woman in Lust?! YOUR A HYPOCRIT, WEAVER. YOUR ACTUALLY ATTACKING JPII FOR his attempt to dialog, with other religions, but yet, you probably, almost assuredly, had NEVER HONESTLY, CONFESSED TO YOUR PRIEST, HOW MANY TIMES, YOU HAVE MASTURBATED, LOOKING AT GIRLY MAGAZINES. YOUR A HYPOCRIT, WEAVER. Your an absolute embarrassment, to the Catholic Church!!! YOUR NOT CATHOLIC, your a Protestant HYPOCRIT. And you definitely, have a knew nickname. Pope Michael Weaver.
kfarley
Weaver has shown the "true sedevacantist" tonight! Thank you Weaver it was funny to see you play right into my hands you imbecile! I knew you'd start talking like a maniac I just did not know that you were THIS CRAZY! Wow!
REVTHREEVS21
Weaver:
Let me guess, Weaver, your accusing the Blessed Pope of something Scandalous, for accepting graciously, an invitation, of a traveling Acrobat show... to entertain him, and the Church?! This is exactly what is SO WRONG, with your movement WEAVER. YOUR an absolute Protestant Anti-Catholic Weaver. I think you should post, Jack Chick Cartoons, or go join, the half dozen Facebook Groups, …More
Weaver:
Let me guess, Weaver, your accusing the Blessed Pope of something Scandalous, for accepting graciously, an invitation, of a traveling Acrobat show... to entertain him, and the Church?! This is exactly what is SO WRONG, with your movement WEAVER. YOUR an absolute Protestant Anti-Catholic Weaver. I think you should post, Jack Chick Cartoons, or go join, the half dozen Facebook Groups, entitles, Catholicism is Unbiblical, Catholicism is Evil, or NO CATHOLICS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS, and join in with the VERY ANTI-CATHOLIC PROTESTANTS, just like yourself, that take, a harmless circus act, and make it into something its NOT!

NOW WHY DON'T WE GET REAL....who shall I side with, this Saint, or YOU! WEAVER, your the ONE thats and Embarrassment, to the Catholic Church, NOT Pope John Paul II, who; in Charity is, accepted a performing circus to entertain the Church! AGAIN, Weaver, in your VERY...TWISTED, sense of Self-Righteousness, you are tying to convince us, your MORE CATHOLIC THAN THE POPE! I have a knew nickname for you. Pope Michael Weaver. Your JUST AS FOOLISH AS POPE MICHAEL....

So lets see???!!!! Shall we follow, Pope Michael Weaver, OR

SAINT PADRE PIO—On Humanae vitae & Vatican II
Your Holiness,
I unite myself with my brothers and present at your feet my affectionate respect, all my devotion to your august person in an act of faith, love and obedience to the dignity of Him whom your are representing on this earth. The Capuchin Order has always been the first in the first line of love, fidelity, obedience and devotion to the Holy See; I pray to God that it may remain thus and continue its tradition of religious seriousness and austerity, evangelical poverty and faithful observance of the Rule and Constitution, certainly renewing itself in the vitality and in the inner spirit, according to the guides of the Second Vatican Council, in order to be always ready to attend to the necessities of Mother Church under the rule of your Holiness.
I know that your heart is suffering much these days in the interest of the Church, for the peace of the world, but above all, for the lack of obedience of some, even Catholics, to the teachings that you, assisted by the Holy Spirit and in the name of God, are giving us. I offer you my prayers and daily sufferings as a small but sincere contribution on the part of the least of your sons in order that God may give you comfort with His grace to follow the straight and painful way in the defense of eternal truth, which never changes with the passing of years. Also, in the name of my spiritual children and the Prayer Groups, I thank you for your clear and decisive words that you especially pronounced in the last encyclical, Humanae vitae; and I reaffirm my faith, my unconditional obedience to your illuminated directions.
May God grant victory to the truth, peace to his Church, tranquility to the world, health and prosperity to your Holiness so that, once these fleeting doubts are dissipated, the Kingdom of God will triumph in all hearts, guided by your apostolic work as Supreme Pontiff of all Christianity.
Prostrate at your feet, I pray you to bless me in the company of my brothers in religion, my spiritual children, the Prayer Groups, my sick ones and also bless all our good endeavors which we are trying to fulfill under your protection in the name of Jesus.
Humbly yours,
P. Pio, Capuchin

WAKE UP WEAVER....
kfarley
Keep talking that way koala!-Gloria will kick you off faster than a greased koala bear sliding down Mt. Everest!
kfarley
Mr. koala you've just lost your conversion opportunities by making bizarre statements. People can now see the psychosis of sedevacantism in your meltdown. It was going so well and then what happened?-A koala bear starts talking about backrubs? Jim Condit Jr. is definately not going to want the likes of you in his corner for a sedevacantist example. A koala bear who starts "getting gay" is not a …More
Mr. koala you've just lost your conversion opportunities by making bizarre statements. People can now see the psychosis of sedevacantism in your meltdown. It was going so well and then what happened?-A koala bear starts talking about backrubs? Jim Condit Jr. is definately not going to want the likes of you in his corner for a sedevacantist example. A koala bear who starts "getting gay" is not a selling point to those questioning their belief systems.
REVTHREEVS21
Weaver: Whats so comical Weaver, if it wasn't so sad, and dangerous, is you absolutely fail to grasp, GREAT SAINTS, like St. Padre Pio, left this life, in absolute Loyalty, and Obedience, to the New Mass, and Vatican II. This is what separates, the TRUE CATHOLICS, FROM THE HERETICS. YOU MIGHT "THINK" your a true Catholic, as you pound on the Tradional Drums. But the very second you step over the …More
Weaver: Whats so comical Weaver, if it wasn't so sad, and dangerous, is you absolutely fail to grasp, GREAT SAINTS, like St. Padre Pio, left this life, in absolute Loyalty, and Obedience, to the New Mass, and Vatican II. This is what separates, the TRUE CATHOLICS, FROM THE HERETICS. YOU MIGHT "THINK" your a true Catholic, as you pound on the Tradional Drums. But the very second you step over the line, and make a very foolish mistake, that YOUR MORE CATHOLIC THAN THE POPE, AND THE POPE IS A HERESTIC, you instantly, start heading down these tracks.

"The Pope is the supreme legislator in the Church. In an Apostolic Letter which he issued motu proprio (on his own initiative) he declared that Mons. Lefebvre and the priests Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta, have incurred the grave penalty of excommunication envisaged by ecclesiastical law. (Cf. Code of Canon Law, can. 1382)...While the priests of the Society of St. Pius X are validly ordained, they are also suspended a divinis..While it is true that participation in the Mass at the chapels of the Society of St. Pius X does not of itself constitute "formal adherence to the schism", such adherence can come about over a period of time as one slowly imbibes a schismatic mentality which separates itself from the teaching of the Supreme Pontiff and the entire Catholic Church classically exemplified in A Rome and Econe Handbook..." Mgr Camille Perl.

The Flat Earth Society and SSPX Type 'Traditionalists'
Many Catholics who love sacred tradition and who abhor the abuses which have so often characterized the immediate post-conciliar era have had at one time or another to wrestle with the response of the Society of St. Pius X and similar groups to this crisis. The piety and liturgical correctness of the SSPX proved a potent seduction. But, as the Greek schism showed, we may have all piety and beautiful liturgy, even martyrs who pour out their blood for Christ, but if we stray from the dogmatic certainties and parameters of the Church, schism remains schism. We do not doubt anyone's good intentions, but where Church dogma and the Promises of Christ to His visible Church until the end of time are concerned (Mt. 28:20) , good intentions, piety, and liturgical perfection are not sufficient. When we wash away from the Rock who is Peter we descend into a labyrinth of errors, exaggeration and imbalance. It took many of us a long time to see our way clear through these issues. But a veritable army of laymen and priests has left and are leaving those ranks. We pray that many more will see their way clear to safer ground and begin fighting the real fight today---- against the Culture of Death." Stephen Hand, Traditional Catholic Resources Note.

An Open Letter To Confused 'traditionalists'
"In the interests of elucidating what a genuine "traditional" theology means, TCR continues its analysis of the Society of St. Pius X, convinced that any theology which attributes serious error or heresy to the magisterium is---by definition---outside the parameters of Catholic doctrine, whether they be drum-beating liberals or High Mass SSPX'ers. The Society of St. Pius X prints books with pictures of the Pope peering like a demon (Cf. their Johannes Dormann books). The theology behind such schemes must be scrutinized. Many of us had to learn the hard way. We wish to make it easier for others. John Loughnan has done the Church an important service." Stephen Hand, Traditional Catholic Resources Note.

In Christ Ross
WAKE UP WEAVER....
REVTHREEVS21
Weaver: “You fail to see that the Church clearly teaches that popes can mislead the Church, and still retain their office.”—So you are saying they are--misleading? Are you saying they can change Church doctrine and infallible teachings---as some of the V2 documents do?

As usual, Weaver, your seizing anything you can, and running with it. AND TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT. What that says, is this! …More
Weaver: “You fail to see that the Church clearly teaches that popes can mislead the Church, and still retain their office.”—So you are saying they are--misleading? Are you saying they can change Church doctrine and infallible teachings---as some of the V2 documents do?

As usual, Weaver, your seizing anything you can, and running with it. AND TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT. What that says, is this! EVEN IF, a Pope, DOES mislead the Church, they still retain their office, which means, in the case of Vatican II, the door is open for reform! Which is whats happening. What you nut cases fail to understand, IS THE CHURCH HAS BEEN IN SERIOUS TROUBLE IN THE PAST, WITHOUT FALLING INTO TOTAL HERESY, WHAT DID THE LORD, SAY TO ST. FRANSIS OF ASSISI...HE TOLD THE GREAT SAINT, TO RE-BUILD HIS CHURCH....DUH....all great Saints, like ASSISI, AND Pope Benedict XVI, are reformers. And all total losers, are herestics, that leave the Church, and say, incredibly, arrogant, and evil things like this...."All these (pre Pope John XXIII) Popes have resisted the union of the Church with the revolution; it is an adulterous union and from such a union only bastards can come. The rite of the new mass is a bastard rite, the sacraments are bastard sacraments. We no longer know if they are sacraments which give grace or do not give it. The priests coming out of the seminaries are bastard priests, who do not know what they are. They are unaware that they are made to go up to the altar, to offer the sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ and to give Jesus Christ to souls." "An Open Letter To Confused Catholics", by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

SO AS USUAL, WEAVER...your doing nothing more, than taking the VERY PROTESTANT APPROACH....
kfarley
Don't worry Mr. koala bear-you can't be in the Catholic Church anyway-no koala bears are allowed. I'll tell you what though-I will come and feed you at the zoo every weekend and make sure that you are not mistreated in any way!
kfarley
This koala is getting mad! I hope koalas don't bite.
One more comment from kfarley
kfarley
We've established that koala's are sedevacantist but we need to know are they also Trekies?
REVTHREEVS21
R. Sungenis: In closing, the Dimond Brothers have shown their incompetence throughout this discussion. Their left hand doesn’t know what their right hand is doing. They claim to obey one set of Church teachings, yet they flatly deny another set, and all this by their own personal judgment which they esteem so highly.
The Dimond Brothers have simply failed to make the proper distinctions, and …More
R. Sungenis: In closing, the Dimond Brothers have shown their incompetence throughout this discussion. Their left hand doesn’t know what their right hand is doing. They claim to obey one set of Church teachings, yet they flatly deny another set, and all this by their own personal judgment which they esteem so highly.
The Dimond Brothers have simply failed to make the proper distinctions, and unfortunately for them, the Catholic religion is all about making the proper distinctions. So many people in history have fallen by the wayside by what appears to be contradictory teaching from the Church, but that is a trap that the devil sets for them.
The Dimond Brothers hold that Vatican II contradicts previous Church teaching, but that is only because they neither understand previous teaching nor understand Vatican II. We saw this quite easily in the Dimond Brothers’ opening remarks in which they attempted to list 10 heresies of Vatican II, their best shot at proving their point, but they utterly failed. The best that can be concluded is that Vatican II has some ambiguous statements, but that is far from being in formal heresy.
The truth is that the Dimond Brothers are promoting heresy, and they are seeking to separate people from the Catholic Church by appearing as if they are supporting the Catholic Church. Ultimately, the Dimond Brothers have repudiated Jesus Christ, for it was He who said that the gates of hell would NOT prevail against the Church, but the Dimond Brothers believe that hell has, indeed, prevailed, for we are headless, without a leader, and have been for the last 47 years, the very opposite of what Jesus promised. Not only is it incorrect, it is absurd.
The main problem, of course, is that the Dimond Brothers have not learned to distinguish between judging faith and morals for the sake of their own conscience and the far different position of judging the Magisterium. At will, the Dimond Brothers declare the whole Magisterium heretical and non-Catholic, yet, as we have seen, they barely have the capability to read a document for what it actually says, and have less capability to understand the context, or synthesize apparent contradictions into a unified whole. That is because they are bent on destroying the Catholic Church and declaring themselves the true holders of the faith. Didn’t we go through this once before with Martin Luther and John Calvin? Apparently, the Dimond Brothers haven’t learned from history, but that is no surprise, for when pride and arrogance get in the way, history means nothing to the egomaniac.
The Dimond Brothers have gone back to the error of Balaam and the error of Korah (Jude 1:11), cases in which mere underlings tried to usurp authority from the rightful magisterium. God simply has no mercy upon those who arrogate authority to themselves, regardless whether the authority in charge is good, bad or indifferent.
As far as the Church is concerned, we have the right to register our objections and disagreements with the Magisterium (Canon Law 212, 2-3) but that is as far as our prerogatives go. Other than that, we are mere peons with an opinion. We can register our opinions, we can write letters to our bishop and pope, but that is as far as our authority goes. We certainly have no right to declare a pope a heretic and unilaterally depose him from office, and insist that others do the same under threat of eternal damnation. That is the devil’s gospel, and I’m sorry to say, that is the gospel being propagated by the Dimond Brothers.
Not judging the Magisterium relieves us of being judged by God. God alone is the judge of the Magisterium, not you, not me, not the Dimond Brothers. Of course, the Magisterium better toe the line, for they will face a much harsher punishment from God than you and I if they faulter. None of us want to be in that position, believe me. It is not a light thing to be a prelate in God’s Magisterium.
The Dimond Brothers are on the road to perdition, and anyone who follows them is putting their soul on the precipice of hell. Run, don’t walk, away from them as fast as you possibly can.
Robert A. Sungenis, M.A., Ph.D. (cd)
President: Catholic Apologetics International
August 1, 2005
kfarley
Weaver the koala bear...I ran out of logic for you? What kind of logic would one need when speaking to a koala bear? Believe me Mr. Koala speaking with you is for entertainment purposes only. It is as easy as breathing for me. There are not enough sedevacantists is several billion galaxies to ever pool their intellect (or lack there of) where anything resembling a challenge would ever be present …More
Weaver the koala bear...I ran out of logic for you? What kind of logic would one need when speaking to a koala bear? Believe me Mr. Koala speaking with you is for entertainment purposes only. It is as easy as breathing for me. There are not enough sedevacantists is several billion galaxies to ever pool their intellect (or lack there of) where anything resembling a challenge would ever be present in my debating one. It is not difficult to debate a koala bear who already has the disadvantage of being dead wrong. In order to make for a good debate you must possess at least some fragment of truth or fact-since you have none at you disposal all you can do is cling to your tree and eat whatever koala's like to graze on!
kfarley
Sedes are an irritation much like a common house fly. You can no more reason with a sede than you can a house fly and like the house fly a sede has no idea who the Pope is either!
REVTHREEVS21
And to my very Protestant Sedevacantist friends; you have already made up your mind on the matter that the post-conciliar popes are heretics. You fail to see that the Church clearly teaches that popes can mislead the Church, and still retain their office. You don't understand the levels of Church authority, and you don't understand when the Church exercises her ordinary and universal Magisterium.…More
And to my very Protestant Sedevacantist friends; you have already made up your mind on the matter that the post-conciliar popes are heretics. You fail to see that the Church clearly teaches that popes can mislead the Church, and still retain their office. You don't understand the levels of Church authority, and you don't understand when the Church exercises her ordinary and universal Magisterium. And that is not your biggest problem. Your biggest problem is that you espouse sedevacantism, which denies the First Vatican Council's dogmatic teaching that the papacy will have perpetual successors, and makes Jesus a liar. If sedevacantism were true, the gates of hell have prevailed. There is no way to elect a new pope without a specific revelation from God. That is why the sedes cannot even agree on who is pope. They are a splintered and fractured group of dissidents who have named at least 20 different popes since Pius XII. Jim, I urge you to reconsider your position, which comes under the anathema of Almighty God Himself. I am now finished with this dialogue. God bless.

In Christ Ross


ps. Nice job Kfarley. Your a strong Catholic, and you have proven yourself, again. When I was discerning these groups, over a year ago, IT WAS BECAUSE OF NUT CASES LIKE THIS, THAT I FLED THERE MOVEMENT. Its a joy to actually be associated, with STRONG Catholics, and not nut cases, who align themselves, with totally embarrassing individuals, like POPE MICHAEL, who has a youtube video, and a facebook, profile, CLAMING HIMSELF TO BE THE POPE. Or a Psychotic, nut case, like Trady, here! Who claims, St. Lucia, was an imposter. I actually appreciate, these morons, there actually doing the New Mass, a service. ANY intelligent, Catholic can immediately discern, there hate, and condemnation, and instantly realize, there STATE OF MIND, IS totally against, what St. Paul teaches. They remind me of the Mormons, who lose all there CREDIBILITY, trying to get souls, to believe, God lives on the Planet Kobar, with his wife! I will add them to my Rosary. This is my last post. In Christ Ross
REVTHREEVS21
Kfarley:

Thank God, I am not on the Chair of St. Peter, they would have added my comments of leaving the internet for LENT, as another heresy! lol. This last pathetic attempt, to justify, there Psychotic delusions , is almost as pathetic, as there entire movement. I wonder, as they attack, the Blessed Father, full of hate, and contempt, they realize, this is HOW affective they truly are.
LOVE…More
Kfarley:

Thank God, I am not on the Chair of St. Peter, they would have added my comments of leaving the internet for LENT, as another heresy! lol. This last pathetic attempt, to justify, there Psychotic delusions , is almost as pathetic, as there entire movement. I wonder, as they attack, the Blessed Father, full of hate, and contempt, they realize, this is HOW affective they truly are.
LOVE

1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love is patient,
love is kind and is not jealous;
love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly;
it does not seek its own,
is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails
;

but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.


"All these (pre Pope John XXIII) Popes have resisted the union of the Church with the revolution; it is an adulterous union and from such a union only bastards can come. The rite of the new mass is a bastard rite, the sacraments are bastard sacraments. We no longer know if they are sacraments which give grace or do not give it. The priests coming out of the seminaries are bastard priests, who do not know what they are. They are unaware that they are made to go up to the altar, to offer the sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ and to give Jesus Christ to souls." "An Open Letter To Confused Catholics", by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

No wonder, there so screwed up, Kfarley, and Psychotic, is a perfect description. Your donkey and swines, was a perfect match. I think I will stick, with St. Paul....what good is it, all I hear, with these knuckled heads, is a loud GONG...and crashing cymbals....but what do you expect from PROTESTANTS.

In Christ Ross
kfarley
Tiresome sedevacantist debate...rejecting reality and wanting to engage others in their confusion. As I stated before, sedevacantists want people to debate them and this is futile. Sedevacantists reject what is the Catholic Church and propose their psychosis as a plausible alternative. Tiresome.
Timothy Johnson
Weaver has rightly drawn attention to Ross' reliance on Mr John Salza.

So let's just discuss John Salza rather than the random, disorganised tidbits extracted from him and others which seek to answer points which I have never made.

No one becomes a 32nd degree freemason through mere youthful naivety. At this level we are talking explicit luciferianism and a thorough understanding of the jude…More
Weaver has rightly drawn attention to Ross' reliance on Mr John Salza.

So let's just discuss John Salza rather than the random, disorganised tidbits extracted from him and others which seek to answer points which I have never made.

No one becomes a 32nd degree freemason through mere youthful naivety. At this level we are talking explicit luciferianism and a thorough understanding of the judeo-masonic penetration of the institutions of the Catholic Church. Does Mr Salza discuss any of this? Or is he content to tell everyone he made a "mistake" and to "reveal" a few anodyne things about the freemasons which have long been in the public domain? Well, if you want to find out, watch his videos and read his book Masonry Unmasked. Anything here? No. Not a whisper. Right at the end of this book he finally makes a few "speculative" admissions about Freemasonry's role in the New World Order, but NOTHING, not a sausage, nada about how the Vatican and the V2 bishops are crawling with freemasons and about their age-old plans to infiltrate the Church. How extraordinary.

So what on earth is going on here? Why is he not he spilling the real beans on the crisis afflicting the Church. He could totally blow the cover off the judeo-masonic conspiracy if he really were a repentant ex-32 degree mason. His life would then be in real danger, of course, but this is surely the sacrifice Our Lord demands for joining such a virulently evil organisation in the first place.

And why on earth is Mr Salza so tranparently avoiding a live debate with Br Peter Dimond by insisting that the latter validate his OSB credentials first? Not only is this impossible in the climate of the V2 counter-church but it's utterly irrelevant - Dimond is not a private eyewitness whose veracity needs to be ratified; his testimony is drawn exclusively from the public treasures of the Church. Watch this videofor evidence of John Salza's apparently evasive and disingenuous behaviour.

Some are now beginning to suspect that Mr Salza remains very much a freemason, indeed a truly brilliant one, a real honour to the Lodge. In this thesis, he's been asked to infiltrate the Church rather like the thousands of young freemasons and communists who invaded the seminaries in the 1930s. His job? Who knows? But who is to say that blocking the ever-increasing flow of traditional Catholics towards the truth of the sede vacante position is not on the agenda? If you're an anti-sedevacantist looking to ward off attacks from your sedevacantist brethren, Mr Salza is at your ready service.
REVTHREEVS21
Timothy: The reason, this because a Pyschological issue, is because your NOT using any common sense. You have stumbled into a group of Catholics, who have viewed everything, from ONE side of the coin. And there is NO chance of dialoging. Thats where the Pig and Donkey video's come in. Whenever, ANYONE, decides, ''THEY'' now are MORE CATHOLIC THAN THE POPE, then real trouble starts to brew. That …More
Timothy: The reason, this because a Pyschological issue, is because your NOT using any common sense. You have stumbled into a group of Catholics, who have viewed everything, from ONE side of the coin. And there is NO chance of dialoging. Thats where the Pig and Donkey video's come in. Whenever, ANYONE, decides, ''THEY'' now are MORE CATHOLIC THAN THE POPE, then real trouble starts to brew. That person, has totally been led down a certain path, WITHOUT even considering, the other side. IF even one, of your foundations pieces, is loose, or cracked, or based on mis-interpretation, then guess what. YOUR whole platform, is faulty. I have discerned this in your movement. Go back, and seriously read what I am posting...and you must understand. YOUR THE ONE, GUILTY OF THE FALSE ATTACKS, my friend. NOT Kfarley. He is just defending the Church, BIG DIFFERENCE.

Timothy, you can either listen to the Dimond Brothers, or you can listen to the popes who opened and closed the council who both said the Council did not teach "with a note of infalliblity" (that is a quote from Paul VI). Also, Baptism of desire is not a sacrament (I never said it was). However, it produces the fruit of the sacrament. You are also adopting the same position as the Novus Ordo apologists: That everything the Church does is infallible. That is absolutely wrong. The Church can teach error and can impose harmful rites on the faithful. It is as simple as that. Nicea and Trent told us so. That means some things come from the human side of the Church, not the divine side. The Church found over 40 errors in PRE CONCILIAR papal teaching on faith and morals when she was defining papal infallibility at Vatican I. So what do you do with that Timothy? Say the Church was in heresy before VII? No. You acknowledge that the Church teaches infallibly only when she communicates the Tradition that has been believed "by all, always and everywhere." Timothy, you need to use your God-given intellect when you analyze these issues. Not everything is going to be spelled out for you with divine-like clarity. Again, I reiterate:

1. If Nicea says that pastors can deride the ecclesiastical traditions (it did), and if Trent says that pastors can inact new rites that do not conform to tradition (it did), then that answers your question. If it doesn't conform to tradition, then it is harmful.

2. It is common knowledge that popes have erred. Read about the Church's investigations when formulating the papal infallibility dogma at the First Vatican Council. There is no distinction between the Church and the pastors of it, because the pastors make up the members of the body, and they don't always teach correctly. Big deal. Big surprise. Your real issue is whether we swallow it or resist it. Obviously, we resist it! We hold only to the Tradition. And we need people like you to educate people about resisting the novelties.

3. Read the opening and closing address of the council as well as Pope Paul VI's speeches concerning the council. Do the research. It is common knowledge that Pope Paul VI says the council "did not teach with a note of infallibility." If you have any of Michael Davies' books, you will find the quote.

4. Yes, the Church has taught infallibly since 1958. VII's teachings on the divinity of Christ, the sinlessness of Mary, the sacrifice of the Mass - all teachings that are part of the Apostolic Tradition - are infallible. Pope John Paul II's ban on women priests in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is infallible. Again, any teaching that has been taught "by all, always and everywhere" is infallible. Remember that formula. It comes from St. Vincent of Lerins' Commonitorium.

In Christ and Mary Ross
REVTHREEVS21
Timothy:
I don't think Kfarly is "Attacking" your person. I think he is quite accurate with his diagnoses. As far as the donkey and pig video's, they also, are very accurate. I have obstained from "Facebook" for lent, which doesn't include Gloria Tv. Now lets say, you decide, I didn't keep my word, because I said, I was obstaining, here also. Does that make my a non-Catholic? The same is true …More
Timothy:
I don't think Kfarly is "Attacking" your person. I think he is quite accurate with his diagnoses. As far as the donkey and pig video's, they also, are very accurate. I have obstained from "Facebook" for lent, which doesn't include Gloria Tv. Now lets say, you decide, I didn't keep my word, because I said, I was obstaining, here also. Does that make my a non-Catholic? The same is true for Vatican II, where your psychosis comes in. Is your basically walking hand in hand with Trady, who actually believes, that St. Lucia, or I should say, an imposter of St. Lucia, was installed her place after Vatican II. This all sounds, a little, "To made up". The first thing I look at, is how "Whacky", can your group get. Consider this. You are not addressing the biggest issue. Nicea and Trent said the Church could err on deriding ecclesiastical traditions and imposing new rites. What you fail to see is that liturgy does not invoke the ordinary and universal Magisterium in regard to faith and morals, unlike the other issues you mention below (unless, of course, the pope makes it clear that his liturgical directives are not reformable, which is arguably the case with Quo Primum of St. Pius V insofar as the integrity of the Roman rite is concerned). Also, the Church has never defined the extent to which "general discipline" is error-free, so this is pure speculation. In fact, given what Trend and Nicea said, we must conclude that an alternative rite given to the Latin Church as an option does not invoke infallibility. Neither the Church nor any reputable theologian has said otherwise. So you either are a sedevacantist, or you recognize that the novelties of the post-conciliar Church don't bind. Certainly, if the teachings of VII are pastoral and thus non-binding, then certainly the liturgy which came from commissions (and which violates many directives of the council) cannot be binding either. It is common sense.
Timothy Johnson
How many variations on the You're a sedevacantist nutter theme can one spin?

Quite a few if your name is kfarley! Below he asserts that I suffer from psychological issues, require professional consultation, and that sedevacantism is an illness, nay a psychosis!

Nor does this self-appointed psychologist stop here. He has elsewhere described another sedevacantist Catholic as mentally ill, …More
How many variations on the You're a sedevacantist nutter theme can one spin?

Quite a few if your name is kfarley! Below he asserts that I suffer from psychological issues, require professional consultation, and that sedevacantism is an illness, nay a psychosis!

Nor does this self-appointed psychologist stop here. He has elsewhere described another sedevacantist Catholic as mentally ill, insane, and requiring regular medication!

Now these are the defamatory tactics used by tyrannical regimes to repress any kind of rational, informed opposition. It's textbook ad hominem abuse, solely aimed at destroying an opponent's character and good name. As such, it constitutes mortal sin (Mt 5:21-22).
kfarley
I can tell you today that you are wrong Timothy-no need to wait for a personal revelation in the future. Anyone like yourself who calls our Catholic Church a "V2 pseudo-church & satan's most brilliant creation to date" suffers from grave spiritual and psychological issues. Until you get some professional & spiritual consultation you'll forever be lost in the quandry you are presently in. …More
I can tell you today that you are wrong Timothy-no need to wait for a personal revelation in the future. Anyone like yourself who calls our Catholic Church a "V2 pseudo-church & satan's most brilliant creation to date" suffers from grave spiritual and psychological issues. Until you get some professional & spiritual consultation you'll forever be lost in the quandry you are presently in. Sedevacantism's illness shines brightly in you and that is why psychosis cannot be argued with or reasoned with.
Timothy Johnson
Have a good Lenten break, Ross. I respect your evident sincerity. I was once of your opinion, and it is only logical that you should excoriate me whilst you hold it.

Schism from the Vicar of Christ is a most appalling sin and leads to eternal perdition. But a sedevacantist rejects not Popes per se (God forbid!) but those whom he considers in good conscience to be apostate antipopes. One day, …More
Have a good Lenten break, Ross. I respect your evident sincerity. I was once of your opinion, and it is only logical that you should excoriate me whilst you hold it.

Schism from the Vicar of Christ is a most appalling sin and leads to eternal perdition. But a sedevacantist rejects not Popes per se (God forbid!) but those whom he considers in good conscience to be apostate antipopes. One day, we will all learn the truth. If I should prove wrong, I repent wholeheartedly in advance.

In the meantime I am more than happy to accept the honour of being considered a schismatic from the V2 pseudo-church, which I formally denounce as Satan's most brilliant creation to date, a product of judeo-masonic infiltration, cowardice and betrayal.

Finally, let me add that, unlike some sedevacantists, I accept traditional non-sedevacantist Catholics as true members of Christ's Church. I believe I was one such for most of my life. In these confusing times, it seems one may have a foot in the pseudo-church and one's heart in the true Church at the same time - but clearly we can't go on like this indefinitely.
REVTHREEVS21
Trady:

Its lack of homework and preperation that lead you to very rash statements, like the one you just made, with Dr. Sungenis. Who is 100 percent, PRO BENEDICT. Does he have issues, with the New Mass, of course. But here is a quote from him, and if you need more, Trady. I will be glad to "School", you when Lent is finished.

Question 31- Novus Ordo vs. Tridentine
What is your opinion on the …More
Trady:

Its lack of homework and preperation that lead you to very rash statements, like the one you just made, with Dr. Sungenis. Who is 100 percent, PRO BENEDICT. Does he have issues, with the New Mass, of course. But here is a quote from him, and if you need more, Trady. I will be glad to "School", you when Lent is finished.

Question 31- Novus Ordo vs. Tridentine
What is your opinion on the Novus Ordo vs. the
Tridentine mass and all the changes to the mass over
the last few years?

R. Sungenis: The Traditional Mass was adequate and is far superior to the Novus Ordo in many respects. The Novus Ordo, however, is a valid Mass, and thus we cannot condemn it on that basis. The fact that the Church has given us two Masses means we must choose between the two which is better. This will require a value judgment on our part. That being the case, it is my opinion that the TLM is much better. It's prayers are more solemn, it's wording is more in tune with what the Mass is accomplishing (a sacrifice before God), its overall format is very respectful and reverent toward God; and all the major doctrines of Catholicism are taught and preserved.

IN Christ Ross
REVTHREEVS21
Trady:

Your trapped in your own, inflated ego, and your own, inflated intellect. Pride and arrogance, nullify's, your common sense. What do you think, Catholics in this time period, used as an excuse to leave the Church, and become a Lutheran?!Let me remind everyone that Trent and the Tridentine Mass did NOT save England or Germany or Scandanavia and other lands from protestantism and later …More
Trady:

Your trapped in your own, inflated ego, and your own, inflated intellect. Pride and arrogance, nullify's, your common sense. What do you think, Catholics in this time period, used as an excuse to leave the Church, and become a Lutheran?!Let me remind everyone that Trent and the Tridentine Mass did NOT save England or Germany or Scandanavia and other lands from protestantism and later secular atheism. The Old mass and disciplines and outward appearances did NOT stop the French Revolution, the rise of Socialism and satanism of the 1840s. It didn't save Portugal or Spain from military dictatorships or their civil wars.

Your so caught up in your childish, conspiracy theory's, you fail to grasp, the Church has been in MUCH WORST SHAPE, in the past, in your TRADITIONAL MOVEMENT! And don't quote, Robert Sungenis, he is DEFINITELY NOT YOUR FRIEND....
3 more comments from REVTHREEVS21
REVTHREEVS21
Trady:

Your an IDIOT!
REVTHREEVS21
Timothy and Trady: I just want you to come to grips, with THE REALITY, OF WHAT YOUR DOING. I am leaving the Internet for LENT, so I won't be around for 40 days. Here is how useless, your movement truly is, concerning your journey to Heaven. WITHOUT THIS...your going nowhere. I really pray, you come to grips, with the fact, Jesus Christ, IS NOT BEHIND A MOVEMENT, THAT HATEFULLY ATTACKS, THERE OWN …More
Timothy and Trady: I just want you to come to grips, with THE REALITY, OF WHAT YOUR DOING. I am leaving the Internet for LENT, so I won't be around for 40 days. Here is how useless, your movement truly is, concerning your journey to Heaven. WITHOUT THIS...your going nowhere. I really pray, you come to grips, with the fact, Jesus Christ, IS NOT BEHIND A MOVEMENT, THAT HATEFULLY ATTACKS, THERE OWN CATHOLIC BROTHERS AND SISTERS. THAT IS NOT, a fruit of the Holy Spirit...PERIOD! ITS A FRUIT OF THE DEVIL! WITHOUT THIS, YOU WON'T ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD, YOUR DECIEVED."So the rite and rubrics alone or outward appearances "alone" without a deep yearning for holiness and willingness to be radically faithful to all the virtues not just some.... is the sine qua non of all renewal and life.... irrespective of rite, rubrics and uniforms." I think this is what the LORD has tried to teach us throughout Scripture, it certainly is at the heart of the debates between JESUS and the Pharisees, and it is the sign of the Presence of the Holy Spirit as seen in the life of St. Francis of Assisi and his early followers and in the Charismatic Renewal. THAT IS WHY, I LEFT YOUR MOVEMENT, I REALIZED, RAPIDLY, THAT I WAS FILLING FULL OF JUDGEMENT AND HATE, AND NOT, BECOMING A NEW CREATION IN CHRIST. I REPENTED, AND I AM NOW, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT CATHOLIC. EVEN IF, YOU DON'T AGREE WITH FARLEY'S, CHOICE OF LANGUAGE, HE IS CORRECT. YOUR NOT FUNCTIONING AS A CATHOLIC, BECAUSE YOUR NOT ONLY REJECTING THE POPE, YOUR ACTUALLY ATTACKING OTHER CATHOLICS...YOU HAVE BEEN LED, INTO A DARK PLACE. AND YOUR PRIDE AND EGO'S HAVE SEALED THE DOOR. ONLY TRUE WISDOM, AND PRAYER, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN LIBERATE YOU. Your in my prayers, IN Christ Ross
REVTHREEVS21
Timothy and Trady. Do you think, there were Catholics who felt the same way, you do, in this time period of history? The key to any council is who interprets it and then enforces the implementation. Confir the Acts of the Apostles and the council of Jerusalem....they didn't just write a letter and send it off to Antioch, they also selected two representatives to make sure their letter was …More
Timothy and Trady. Do you think, there were Catholics who felt the same way, you do, in this time period of history? The key to any council is who interprets it and then enforces the implementation. Confir the Acts of the Apostles and the council of Jerusalem....they didn't just write a letter and send it off to Antioch, they also selected two representatives to make sure their letter was properly received.....to the degree the bishops came home from the council and were in control of the development - like in Poland or the far east....things went OK. In the US and EU zone bishops were NOT in control as the Media and theologians and others took the pole position and ran with it.... most people, especially the "bureaucratic" people in the Church got their information about what it all means not from the Pope or Vatican but from the NYT, Time Magazine, religious order theologians, etc. all trumpetting their interpretation as the sign of the times, etc.

Hence we got the parallel magisterium and 'american church' craziness of the 1980s and 1990s (from folk who generally couldn't fight their way out of wet paper bags via persuasion so just did things, just asserting their view as fact and buffaloed or bluffed their way to change on the ground.)

But while the West was being infiltrated via various Communist 5th columns (not my opinion, the KGB archives revealed post 1989 attest to this), as well as the usual anti-Catholic secular elites' infiltration and good old fashioned defections in the face of the Zietgheist (world, flesh and devil), the East and south and other parts were NOT experiencing a collapse in vocations and evangelization.

Instead, the 3rd world was experiencing a boom in every category.

So that tells me that the decay of the West cannot be laid at the feet of Vatican II, as though it wasn't already well underway.

Let me remind everyone that Trent and the Tridentine Mass did NOT save England or Germany or Scandanavia and other lands from protestantism and later secular atheism. The Old mass and disciplines and outward appearances did NOT stop the French Revolution, the rise of Socialism and satanism of the 1840s. It didn't save Portugal or Spain from military dictatorships or their civil wars.

So the rite and rubrics alone or outward appearances "alone" without a deep yearning for holiness and willingness to be radically faithful to all the virtues not just some.... is the sine qua non of all renewal and life.... irrespective of rite, rubrics and uniforms.

We can't confuse cause and effect. The golden era of the 1940s-1950's were a historically unique effect of a lot of difference influences.... but as we see, that window of blessings didn't endure. Maybe it's because Christians are not supposed to live for long without struggle and persecution? Maybe our Lord is right when he says the price of following him is to pick up crosses....