Clicks935

Resurgence of Pachamama worship in the Church

After seven years of the Bergoglian pontificate:

The Jesuits celebrate Pachamama Day

The Vatican issues Pachamama coin

This is the worship of demons in the high places

Where is the outrage in the Church that Jesuits and the Vatican are officially promoting the veneration of Pachamama?

Where are the bishops? The priests? The deacons?

Their silence makes the whole institutional Church complicit

Where are the disciples of Elijah to bring God's justice to Ahab?

la verdad prevalece
Jesus replied, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin, but now because you claim that you can see, your guilt remains."
Ultraviolet
This post is about how the Vatican allegedly "issues (a) Pachamama coin", Gesu. Go to the Vatican Numismatic site take a screen cap and highlight the word "Madre Terra" or "Pachamama"
Ultraviolet
To misquote E. Michael Jones, "The clever bully always cries out in pain while striking someone else". That's really what you're doing here Gesù è con noi
4 more comments from Ultraviolet
Ultraviolet
"Because cyberbullies can’t witness the effect of their words," You lash out a me, but you don't consider my feelings do you, Gesu? Irony? No, you simply don't care. All your concern about "bullying" is a passive-aggressive attack,. Gesù è con noi
Ultraviolet
"Beware Ultraviolet frequently uses cyberbully to attack the faithfull Catholics of this forum." -Gesù è con noi
Ultraviolet
"Ultraviolet is an enemy of the Catholic faith." -Gesù è con noi And a few minutes earlier you commented .."a troll is a person who starts flame wars..." Like so many hypocrites, you indict yourself without noticing.. The only thing I'm an enemy of is falsehoods So why don't you get back on topic? Because this post is about a supposed "Pachamama coin" not me.
Ultraviolet
"by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages " -You're not talking about the coin, are you? @Gesù è con noi Also, pic related.
Gesù è con noi
“Cyberbullying is the platform the twenty-first century bully uses to inflict pain and humiliation upon another,” says author and speaker Dr. John DeGarmo of The Foster Care Institute. “The use of technology to embarrass, threaten, tease, harass or even target another person.” DeGarmo emphasizes the danger of cyberbullying in how inescapable it can be.
Because cyberbullies can’t witness the effec…More
“Cyberbullying is the platform the twenty-first century bully uses to inflict pain and humiliation upon another,” says author and speaker Dr. John DeGarmo of The Foster Care Institute. “The use of technology to embarrass, threaten, tease, harass or even target another person.” DeGarmo emphasizes the danger of cyberbullying in how inescapable it can be.
Because cyberbullies can’t witness the effect of their words, they use less restraint than they would in face-to-face situations. This emotional and physical detachment allows them to harass others, in some cases without truly realizing they’ve become a bully. But if you are thinking cyberbullying can never harm someone as much as a punch or getting shoved into a locker, think again.
Gesù è con noi
Ultraviolet is an enemy of the Catholic faith. Beware Ultraviolet frequently uses cyberbully to attack the faithfull Catholics of this forum.
Gesù è con noi
In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts flame wars or intentionally upsets people on the Internet by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, either for the troll's amusement …More
In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts flame wars or intentionally upsets people on the Internet by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, either for the troll's amusement or a specific gain...
Ultraviolet
So... the hypocrites "like/love" @malemp's use of four-letter profanity on a "Catholic" site. And @Gesù è con noi isn't summoning @Don Reto Nay to complain. You're too busy putting little "hate" frownies on all my posts aren't you, Gesu? All you show is you hate the truth. For if the truth were on your side, you could show this to be true. You can't. No outrage from you about "insulting …More
So... the hypocrites "like/love" @malemp's use of four-letter profanity on a "Catholic" site. And @Gesù è con noi isn't summoning @Don Reto Nay to complain. You're too busy putting little "hate" frownies on all my posts aren't you, Gesu? All you show is you hate the truth. For if the truth were on your side, you could show this to be true. You can't. No outrage from you about "insulting and harassing" when a fellow Latin GTV user starts following me around swearing. Fancy that. Nice to see @malemp de Argentina has the same filthy mouth as our Argentinian Pope

You people are like all hypocrites. It isn't the act that bothers you, it's the person. When Malemp is spewing gutter-talk on a Catholic site, you're not putting "hate" frownies on his posts, are you? Your standards are as false as your faith. You were raised a Catholic, you may to go Mass and profane the Euchrarist, but your kind are, in truth, less Catholic than even that Argentinian clown who's the current Pope.

There's nothing "liberal" about my agenda, @malemp, you stupid campesino. . But there's plenty that's factually wrong about yours and Gesu's and San Atanasio's and, happily only a very few others. You "amigos" seem to think telling lies are okay if you don't like someone. I don't. Best of all, I use facts and the truth to humiliate you and make you look exactly like the petty, malicious simpletons you truly are. That's what you truly despise. You can't argue the facts with anything except your own hatred of them.

...and the person who tells them.

Here's an idea @malemp instead of turning GTV into a "four letter" toilet, go to the Vatican Numismatic site take a screen cap and highlight the word "Madre Terra" or "Pachamama". If you can't, your charming phrase applies only to you. ;-)
De Profundis
This
malemp
ULTRAVIOLET yousuck and youre not even a CATHOLIC always bullyng usuaries and try to push LIBERAL AGENDA whats wrong whith others not thinking the same liberal bull you think?
Alex A
Boy! Have you got that wrong? Friendly suggestion, malemp, check your facts first, before 'jumping into the fire.'
Ultraviolet
@Gesù è con noi I more than welcome @Don Reto Nay's direct attention. Explain to him why the many insults I recieve from you and several other users don't qualify as insulting and harassing "faithful Catholics". .Also explain to him why you're not disproving anything I've presented earlier tonight. Instead, you're trying to get me into trouble. That is true "harassment". ;-)

It's debat…More
@Gesù è con noi I more than welcome @Don Reto Nay's direct attention. Explain to him why the many insults I recieve from you and several other users don't qualify as insulting and harassing "faithful Catholics". .Also explain to him why you're not disproving anything I've presented earlier tonight. Instead, you're trying to get me into trouble. That is true "harassment". ;-)

It's debatable that you and a few others even still are Catholics since you obviously don't submit to "Bergoglio" as you call him, who is the Supreme Pontiff (like it or not). That is schism under Canon Law 751 and schismatics incur aa latae sententiae excommunication excommunication from the Catholic Church under Canon Law 1364 §

"Faithful Catholics" follow the laws of the Church. Do you submit to Pope Francis and recognize him as the Supreme Pontiff? Yes or no?

You 're wrong about the Pope, you're wrong about the woman on the Vatican's coin, and this is how you handle being wrong. What irony... Christ's enemies ran to Pilate and you run to @Don Reto Nay

Seems you and a few other anti-Papal schismatics have started a nice piece of propaganda. "UV insults/ harasses faithful Catholics". Correcting your constant falsehoods and anti-Papal nonsense isn't "harrassment". If I "insult" you, remember I give what I get. I'm just better at giving it than you are.

You're trying to misuse Scripture just like a "Sola Scriptura" Lutheran does when he's wrong. Suddenly he remembers he's "religious" and starts quoting the Bible about heresy.

Let us speak of heresy, as faithful Catholics. The Catholic Church states in Canon Law 751 "Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith."

Show which truth believed by the Church to be divine I obstinately deny or doubt. If you can't, will you accept a permanent ban from GTV?

You want to play at being a "faithful Catholic"? Fine. Let us wager our memberships with @Don Reto Nay as judge. Loser gets permanently banned and banned again if they try to rejoin. Do you still want to discuss heresy as a "faithful Catholic"? I do! :D

You quote Titus 3:11-11 about "evil teachers" What have I taught here that is evil or false?

"Jesus answered him: If I have spoken evil, give testimony of the evil; but if well, why strikest thou me?" (John 18:23)

That's exactly what you're NOT doing. You can't and you know it which is why you're playing the Pharisee.
Gesù è con noi
Let them alone: they are blind, and leaders of the blind.
Catena Aurea Saint Jerome: This is also the same as that Apostolic injunction, “A heretic after the first and second admonition reject, knowing that such a one is perverse.” [Tit 3:11-11] To the same end the Saviour commands evil teachers to be left to their own will, knowing that it is hardly that they can be brought to the truth.
Gesù è con noi
@Don Reto Nay I wonder how the administration of Gloria tv allows this user @Ultraviolet to insult and harass faithful Catholics.
Atte: @Deacon Nick Donnelly
Ultraviolet
You are a liar, @San Albóndigas I'm not contradicting "the Official Vatican website" or the sculptor Luigi Oldani because neither of them call the woman on the coin "Pachamama" or "Madre Terra". Those words don't even appear on those pages. You can't read Italian, so linking up Italian language sites and then making claim about they say is just the kind dirty trick I can expect from you.

More
You are a liar, @San Albóndigas I'm not contradicting "the Official Vatican website" or the sculptor Luigi Oldani because neither of them call the woman on the coin "Pachamama" or "Madre Terra". Those words don't even appear on those pages. You can't read Italian, so linking up Italian language sites and then making claim about they say is just the kind dirty trick I can expect from you.

Very easy to prove one way or the other. Highlight the word "Pachamama" or "Madre Terra" on the screen-cap of Official Vatican Philatelic and Numismatic site or your screencap of the sculptor Luigi Oldani..

That IS your claim: the Vatican website and the sculptor " identifies the coin with the Pachamama" Your words quoted verbatim.. So highlight the word Pachamama on the screen caps for the Vatican site or Luigi Oldani. Do it or apologize to me with the same thoroughness of your attack. I'm not done with you. I'll be "replying" just so my reply is properly organized. (cont.)
Ultraviolet
You picked the worst time to squabble with me @San Apestado ;-) When I'm feeling playful, I like to use my opponents' own material against them. Just because I can.

So, you insist Pachamama is the same as Mother Earth. You did so so last night with your silly headlines and now you even claim the "the official Vatican website" and "the sculptor" "identifies the coin with the Pachamama".

More
You picked the worst time to squabble with me @San Apestado ;-) When I'm feeling playful, I like to use my opponents' own material against them. Just because I can.

So, you insist Pachamama is the same as Mother Earth. You did so so last night with your silly headlines and now you even claim the "the official Vatican website" and "the sculptor" "identifies the coin with the Pachamama".

Just one problem: the Official Vatican Philatelic and Numismatic site doesn't name this coin or call the woman on it "Pachamama" OR even "Madre Terra" (i.e. "Mother Earth")

ufn.va/…ag-fs-2020-50-ann-g-terra.html

The official Vatican Philatelic and Numismatic site describes the image as "depicting a mother carrying the earth in her womb"

So were did this name "Madre Terra" get connected with the coin? It was introduced by way of secular sites like Church Militant (and similar bloggy news sites) quoting a secular Italian numismatic site which you screen-capped. Neither of those sources are Vatican or even quoting the Vatican.

They fabricated the title of the coin. It doesn't appear on the Vatican site. Anti-Papal morons like you will swallow anything because it fits your agenda. (cont.)
Ultraviolet
Where did the secular Italian numismatic site get it? They borrowed the term from the Italian title of Pope Francis book from October of last year: "Nostra Terra Madre. Una lettura Cristiana della sfida dell’ambiente" (English: Our Mother Earth: A Christian reading of the environmental challenge)

vaticannews.va/…-for-the-care-of-creation.html

press.vatican.va/…bblico/2019/10/16/191016e.html…More
Where did the secular Italian numismatic site get it? They borrowed the term from the Italian title of Pope Francis book from October of last year: "Nostra Terra Madre. Una lettura Cristiana della sfida dell’ambiente" (English: Our Mother Earth: A Christian reading of the environmental challenge)

vaticannews.va/…-for-the-care-of-creation.html

press.vatican.va/…bblico/2019/10/16/191016e.html

This is significant because it shows both the Vatican and the Pople are fully comfortable using the term "Madre Terra" when they want to. If the Vatican wanted to call this coin or the woman on it,"Madre Terra," then they have arlready demonstrated that they would. They didn't because she isn't "Madre Terra" and therefore she isn't Pachamama.

A secular Italian numismatic site can give any name they want. They are not the Vatican. Worse, that secuar site's name for the coin is even more wrong than you could possibly imagine as you'll soon learn. (cont.)
4 more comments from Ultraviolet
Ultraviolet
The expert on the Quechua language you kept ignoring last night, Catholic priest Padre Jorge A Lira claimed that "Pacha Mama significa Madre Tierra:" (English: "Pacha Mama means Mother Earth:").

That citation is courtesy of @V.R.S. checking the Spanish language Wikipedia... Never let it be said I don't give the credit he richly deserves. Especially when what's going to follow makes him …More
The expert on the Quechua language you kept ignoring last night, Catholic priest Padre Jorge A Lira claimed that "Pacha Mama significa Madre Tierra:" (English: "Pacha Mama means Mother Earth:").

That citation is courtesy of @V.R.S. checking the Spanish language Wikipedia... Never let it be said I don't give the credit he richly deserves. Especially when what's going to follow makes him look as silly as getting caught in that lie about checking English dictionaries.

Let's ignore for a moment exactly -how- Padre Lima defined Pachamama. His definition includes a number of concepts that directly contradict each other and what "Madre Terra" means. None of that is his fault, he's only repeating what a bunch of pagan savages claimed and making a best approximation of their errors and falsehoods..

Important, true, but let's just run with the Padre for a few steps. ;-)
Ultraviolet
According to Padre Lima, "Pacha Mama means Mother Earth". The figure on the Vatican coin can't be "Mother Earth" for one incontestable reason...

Mother Earth can't carry herself in her own womb.

It's a self-contradicting impossibility. As I said, this might well be a different panthiest eco-diety, but it is not Mother Earth/ Madre Terra (Tierra), and therefore, according to Padre Lima, it …More
According to Padre Lima, "Pacha Mama means Mother Earth". The figure on the Vatican coin can't be "Mother Earth" for one incontestable reason...

Mother Earth can't carry herself in her own womb.

It's a self-contradicting impossibility. As I said, this might well be a different panthiest eco-diety, but it is not Mother Earth/ Madre Terra (Tierra), and therefore, according to Padre Lima, it can't be Pachamama, either.

Gotcha! ;-)
Ultraviolet
Here's the big breakdown for you.

@San Atanasio esta cabron:: Pachamama is Madre Terra. Look at my UK News Headlines!

@V.R.S. (quoting) Father Lima "Pachamama means Madre Terra." Argumentum Ad Wikipedium En Español ;-)

@ Offiical Vatican Numismatic Site Page :Doesn't call the coin or the woman on the coin "Madre Terra" (or Pacha Mama) anywhere.

...because Mother Earth can't carry hers…More
Here's the big breakdown for you.

@San Atanasio esta cabron:: Pachamama is Madre Terra. Look at my UK News Headlines!

@V.R.S. (quoting) Father Lima "Pachamama means Madre Terra." Argumentum Ad Wikipedium En Español ;-)

@ Offiical Vatican Numismatic Site Page :Doesn't call the coin or the woman on the coin "Madre Terra" (or Pacha Mama) anywhere.

...because Mother Earth can't carry herself in herself and then give birth to herself.

A woman is carrying the earth in her womb.

This last point is central to Catholic pro-life argument. Mother and her unborn child are separate individuals.. A mother who gets an abortion isn't removing a piece of herself. She is removing someone else (and killing them).

Little wonder why the woman on the Vatican coin doesn't look like Pachamama. It isn't Pachama and never was.
Ultraviolet
Well done, @V.R.S. Your own oh so helpful Spanish Wikipedia reference just destroyed @San Cagado's argument entirely. They were doing poorly enough on their own, but that wasn't enough for you. Not at all... You just had to help them out with your scholarship. Aw, you poor chumps, the both of you.

Lastly, since you each insisted on bringing the subject up... this is why I'm arrogant.…More
Well done, @V.R.S. Your own oh so helpful Spanish Wikipedia reference just destroyed @San Cagado's argument entirely. They were doing poorly enough on their own, but that wasn't enough for you. Not at all... You just had to help them out with your scholarship. Aw, you poor chumps, the both of you.

Lastly, since you each insisted on bringing the subject up... this is why I'm arrogant. I can beat you with my sources. Then I can turn around and beat you with your own sources as well ... just for the sheer pleasure of doing so. MFW...
Ultraviolet
Today @la mentira prevalece discovers the Church Militant site is not the Vatican any more than he is. If Church Militant calls the coin "Mother Earth" or "Madre Terra" or "Britney Spears" so what? They're not quoting the Vatican website and neither are you. Your screen cap is worthless and you are an idiot.

"It is a waste of time trying to prove the facts"

Your stupidity just got disproved …More
Today @la mentira prevalece discovers the Church Militant site is not the Vatican any more than he is. If Church Militant calls the coin "Mother Earth" or "Madre Terra" or "Britney Spears" so what? They're not quoting the Vatican website and neither are you. Your screen cap is worthless and you are an idiot.

"It is a waste of time trying to prove the facts"

Your stupidity just got disproved with facts. Try again. Go ahead, why don't YOU take a look at the official Vatican numismatic site, screen-cap it and highlight the word "Madre Terra" on it. Here's the page.

ufn.va/…ag-fs-2020-50-ann-g-terra.html

The word "Madre Terra" does not appear on that page, either identifying the coin or the woman on it.

"especially if someone does not speak English."

Go play your "foreign language" victim-game somewhere else. You Latins are every bit as vicious as I am. You lie, you repeat your lies even after I've corrected them and then you complain like hurt little children how I'm the one attacking you! :D Hypocrisy? Loads of it. I give what I get. I just give MORE of it out of a fine sense of irony and, perhaps, a growing Catholic generosity. ;-)
Alex A
@la verdad prevalece What, and whose truth would that be?
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
Ultraviolet has the arrogance to contradict the official Vatican website and the sculptor of the pagan coin who identifies the coin with the Pachamama, that was made to honor the pagan idol for the 50th Anniversary of World Earth Day, released on the anniversary of the closure of the Amazonian pagan pseudo-synod.
la verdad prevalece
Exodus 20:3 you shall have no other gods before me.
la verdad prevalece
Ultraviolet lives in the post-Truth era and he maliciously believes he has the right to deny facts.
la verdad prevalece
I do not know if that account belongs to the moderator Anthony Principe who has maliciously also had the audacity to deny the dogma of Hell and the prophecy of La Salette. Both use the same modus operandi of trolls.
la verdad prevalece
It is a waste of time trying to prove the facts because Ultraviolet would ridicule them and attack whoever dares to oppose him especially if someone does not speak English.
Alex A
@la verdad prevalence> Ah diddums. Need a Tissue 😭 Why are you playing the race card then?
dpfurey
"Their silence makes the whole institutional Church complicit"

Yep. Sure does.
Ultraviolet
@V.R.S. I already addressed this using an English translation of the text. You need to explain how time and the universe are the same as the earth Maybe wikipedia will help you. :D.i.e. choosing one translation while deliberately excluding all the rest which contradict it (and each other). "The name Pachamama is translated into English as Mother Earth since pacha is a word in both Quechua …More
@V.R.S. I already addressed this using an English translation of the text. You need to explain how time and the universe are the same as the earth Maybe wikipedia will help you. :D.i.e. choosing one translation while deliberately excluding all the rest which contradict it (and each other). "The name Pachamama is translated into English as Mother Earth since pacha is a word in both Quechua and Aymara that means earth, cosmos, universe, time, space, etc. in English and mama means "mother."

It's gotten buried, but that's only because petty creatures like @San Atanasio derive some infantile pleasure in "blocking" me while endlessly replying. :P

To recap... Pachamama also means "cosmos mother" and "universe mother" and "time mother" and "space mother" and "etc. mother". In short, it means numerous contradictory concepts. Time is not space, neither time nor space is the earth. How sloppy. Latin is a bit more precise.

Earth mother and Mother Earth are not the same. Likewise...

"Terra "-Earth
"Universum" -Universe
"Tempus" -Time
"Locus" -Space

"Cosmos" isn't Latin, it's Greek and refers to the order of the universe (as opposed to chaos). Then there's the small matter of iconography. The Vatican's "Mother Earth" coin simply doesn't have a direct parallel with traditional Andean depictions of Pachamama.
Ultraviolet
You can't speak latin @San Atanasio, so posting Latin prayers in all bold brands you pretentious, sanctimonious fraud. Nice faux-Catholic virtue signalling. Protip: Archbishop Fulton Sheen had a degree in canon law and another in philosophy. Abp Sheen was not psychiatrist nor did he conduct any studies on the psychological basis of arrogance. In my case, arrogance is a manifestation of …More
You can't speak latin @San Atanasio, so posting Latin prayers in all bold brands you pretentious, sanctimonious fraud. Nice faux-Catholic virtue signalling. Protip: Archbishop Fulton Sheen had a degree in canon law and another in philosophy. Abp Sheen was not psychiatrist nor did he conduct any studies on the psychological basis of arrogance. In my case, arrogance is a manifestation of pride based on consistent and repeated success, exactly what's happening all over the comments section of this post to your considerable and increasing chagrin.

Soo... even here ya' blew it! Enjoy. Your Fallacy Is:
One more comment from Ultraviolet
Ultraviolet
@San Atanasio el Stupido Nice upgrade with FALSE IN ALL CAPS BOLD AND RED. You're not going to find an inidigenously crafted representation of Pachamama with a globe.Stone age savages didn't have maps of the planet. Doubtful they even knew it was round, much less what was on it.

"Likewise, a naked woman with a child in her womb is not a clothed woman with a globe in her womb". = FALSE…More
@San Atanasio el Stupido Nice upgrade with FALSE IN ALL CAPS BOLD AND RED. You're not going to find an inidigenously crafted representation of Pachamama with a globe.Stone age savages didn't have maps of the planet. Doubtful they even knew it was round, much less what was on it.

"Likewise, a naked woman with a child in her womb is not a clothed woman with a globe in her womb". = FALSE

Can you even read English without a translation program? An infant is the same as a globe? Naked is the same as clothed? Tell that one to Adam and Eve. MFW pic related.

Which is why none of your "Pachamama" images fit the criteria of the Vatican's "Mother Earth" Very important that. This isn't any old "Mother Earth". This is the Vatican's depiction. An indigenously crafted representation must conform to that and no other. None of your images qualify.. Upper Left and Right. No globe, no wheat, no pregnancy. Lower Left: No pregancy, no wheat. Lower Right: No wheat, no globe.

Also, please use only images of crafts you can show are produced by indigenous Andean people not referencing modern sources. Otherwise you could draw the darn picture yourself and say it's from a genuine "Latin American artist" :D :D. Ethnography doesn't work that way. Still waiting.... ;-)
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
@Ultraviolet Vade retro satana Nunquam suade mihi vana Sut mala quae libas Ipse venena bibas
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
As Archbishop Fulton John Sheen said that “Arrogance is the manifestation of weakness, the secret fear towards rivals.”
V.R.S.
Yes, he is that arrogant & ignorant:

"First, he's Padre Lira, a Catholic priest who was an expert on the folklore of the Andes, as well as a linguist, scholar, and author. Guess which source has more authority on Latin American language and etymology, hmm?"
"He's a British journalist who focuses on environmental topics. He's not a Latin American nor an expert on the Quechua language. Padre …More
Yes, he is that arrogant & ignorant:

"First, he's Padre Lira, a Catholic priest who was an expert on the folklore of the Andes, as well as a linguist, scholar, and author. Guess which source has more authority on Latin American language and etymology, hmm?"
"He's a British journalist who focuses on environmental topics. He's not a Latin American nor an expert on the Quechua language. Padre Jorge A Lira is both."
----

OK, we have here in fact argumentum ad wikipediam 😬, then - lets quote the Spanish one:

"Pacha Mama significa Madre Tierra:

pacha, un término aimara y quechua, significa ‘tierra, mundo, universo, tiempo, época’.8

pacha kununuy (‘temblor de tierra con fuerte ruido’).9

pachamit'a (‘parte del tiempo’, cada una de las cuatro estaciones en que se divide un año).

pacha k'anchay (‘luz del mundo’, la luz solar).

mama: "madre""

and what's the source of such translation? 😂

Yes it's our dear, beloved Padre Lira and his Spanish Dictionary:
8 LIRA, Jorge A. (1944): Diccionario kkechuwa-español (volumen II). Tucumán (Argentina): sin editorial, pág. 719.
Ultraviolet
Another news article San Atanasio? About climate change? Such a scholarly source! :P You really can't find anything bette, can you?. Please quote, verbatim, where your article says "Mother Earth" is the same as Pachamama. Then show why John Vidal is academically qualified to make such a claim.

He's a British journalist who focuses on environmental topics. He's not a Latin American nor an …More
Another news article San Atanasio? About climate change? Such a scholarly source! :P You really can't find anything bette, can you?. Please quote, verbatim, where your article says "Mother Earth" is the same as Pachamama. Then show why John Vidal is academically qualified to make such a claim.

He's a British journalist who focuses on environmental topics. He's not a Latin American nor an expert on the Quechua language. Padre Jorge A Lira is both.

Also explain, if "Mother Earth" is Pachamama, why didn't Boliva call the law "Ley de Derechos de la Pachamama"?

Since you've brought up Bolivia, here's something a bit more relevant. This site
is every bit as general interest and unsourced as your news articles. At least it's Latin American AND Bolivian.

"The name Pachamama is translated into English as Mother Earth since pacha is a word in both Quechua and Aymara that means earth, cosmos, universe, time, space, etc. in English and mama means "mother."

So Pachamama also means "cosmos mother" and "universe mother" and "time mother" and "space mother" and "etc. mother". In short, today it means anything at all. How sloppy. Latin is a bit more precise.

Earth mother and Mother Earth are not the same. Likewise...

"Terra "-Earth
"Universum" -Universe
"Tempus" -Time
"Locus" -Space

"Cosmos" isn't Latin, it's Greek and refers to the order of the universe (as opposed to chaos). I'm still waiting for "Pachamama" with clothes, wheat in her hair annnnnnnnd a globe, too.. Gotta have the globe @San Stupido!
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
Again @Ultraviolet is acting like a Troll deflecting the subject. This is not a game of lose or win nor is it an English class, here it is about the truth or the lie and it is proven that the argument about the Pachamama @Ultraviolet gave is FALSE.
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
@Ultraviolet :"World Mother" is not "Mother Earth"= FALSE
@Ultraviolet :"Likewise, a naked woman with a child in her womb is not a clothed woman with a globe in her womb". = FALSE

Ultraviolet :
At the risk of repeating myself, "Mother Earth" isn't "Pachamama." The iconography of the pagan "Pachamama" diety never included clothes or wheat in its hair or had the globe of the earth as a …More
@Ultraviolet :"World Mother" is not "Mother Earth"= FALSE
@Ultraviolet :"Likewise, a naked woman with a child in her womb is not a clothed woman with a globe in her womb". = FALSE

Ultraviolet :
At the risk of repeating myself, "Mother Earth" isn't "Pachamama." The iconography of the pagan "Pachamama" diety never included clothes or wheat in its hair or had the globe of the earth as a pregnancy. (doubtful the savages worshipping Pachamama knew the earth was a glob).
This might well be a different panthiest eco-diety, but it isn't Pachamama. = ALSO FALSE
Ultraviolet
No, I'm not "going around the bush" @San Atanasio I'm discrediting your source by exposing the author's lack of credentials. I'm also pointing out MY source beats yours as badly as I'm beating you right now. Protip: If you can speak English when it suits you, don't hide your remarks using Spanish. It's dishonest. It's also not going to work.

There's nothing racist about any of this, either. …More
No, I'm not "going around the bush" @San Atanasio I'm discrediting your source by exposing the author's lack of credentials. I'm also pointing out MY source beats yours as badly as I'm beating you right now. Protip: If you can speak English when it suits you, don't hide your remarks using Spanish. It's dishonest. It's also not going to work.

There's nothing racist about any of this, either. Except, of course YOU introducing it as a defense. That's very racist indeed. A certain kind of minority invariably resorts to this kind of accusation when they lose an argument: claiming the opposition is "racist". No surprise you're one of them. It's also an ad hominem argument since a racist can still be factually correct in spite of such a bias. You fail again, even on that.
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
The funniest thing is that the racist @Ultraviolet has to put up with a Hispanic for his ´pope´.
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
@Ultraviolet La Biblia dice que los ignorantes cuando hablan anuncian su necedad y este es el caso de Ultraviolet cuando se ve perdido se va por las ramas.
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
But still he hates even Spanish language
Ultraviolet
You didn't check your source's credentials @San Atanasio. Unfortunately for you, I did. ;-) Mr. James Ingham has a BA in English and Drama from the University of Exeter 1992 -1995 and that's it.

By his own admission, Mr. Ingham has only a "Limited working proficiency" in Spanish.

Since I have to spell it out for you, A Batchelor of Arts degree in English and Drama does not qualify him …More
You didn't check your source's credentials @San Atanasio. Unfortunately for you, I did. ;-) Mr. James Ingham has a BA in English and Drama from the University of Exeter 1992 -1995 and that's it.

By his own admission, Mr. Ingham has only a "Limited working proficiency" in Spanish.

Since I have to spell it out for you, A Batchelor of Arts degree in English and Drama does not qualify him to speak with any authority on Latin American language/ culture/ or religion. In fact, he can just barely speak the language at all.

...and THIS is your big expert. :P

In contrast, My source is a Wikipedia entry citing Lira, Jorge A (1944). Diccionario Kkechuwa - Español (in Spanish). Tucumán, Argentina.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachamama

Let's talk about Jorge A. Lira. First, he's Padre Lira, a Catholic priest who was an expert on the folklore of the Andes, as well as a linguist, scholar, and author.

Guess which source has more authority on Latin American language and etymology, hmm?

1.) A Brit with a BA in English or drama with a "limited working proficiency in Spanish or a

2.) A Latin American Catholic priest who specialized in folklore, speaks Spanish perfectly and compiled a specialist dictionary on the Quecha language.

The ignorance here is yours. Speaking of which, "the Catholic faithful" acknowledge the authority of the Pope. You don't. Therefore you're neither Catholic nor faithful and the garbage you post either about the Pope or Pachamama isn't the truth.

Here's an idea... since you're online and usin' google 'n all, Post a photo of a traditional "Pachamama" statue wearing clothes, with wheat in its hair, and a globe in its belly.
Alex A
Here we go. Time to get the popcorn and other 'goodies' out. This should be another quality debate.
Ultraviolet
Me? vs.that clown San Atanasio Your charity does him far too much credit. Perhaps to my fault, I'm not that charitabl and, in truth, neither are they. Which is fine. People who go out of their way to brag about "Ignorance is bold" when they think they've got a solid argument deserve everything they get when it evaporates.
V.R.S.
"This should be another quality debate."
---

Rather: another Norse saga.
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
@Alex A Do not worry in this forum we have learned that you do not talk to fools that is why it says that trolls should not be fed but unfortunately for the honor of the Truth from time to time we have to put them in their place.
Ultraviolet
"for the honor of the Truth from time to time we have to put them in their place."

Still waiting to see you explain how a Brit with limited proficiency in Spanish is a better expert on the Quecha language and Pachamama than a Latin American Catholic priest who compiled a dictionary on the language and was a recognized expert in folklore.

"Look at these images of the Pachamama that denies …More
"for the honor of the Truth from time to time we have to put them in their place."

Still waiting to see you explain how a Brit with limited proficiency in Spanish is a better expert on the Quecha language and Pachamama than a Latin American Catholic priest who compiled a dictionary on the language and was a recognized expert in folklore.

"Look at these images of the Pachamama that denies what @Ultraviolet says"

Where's the wheat? Where's the globe in the belly? Where's the traditional statue I asked for.? You haven't shown anything.

Headlines? That's your best source? Headlines of videos? Wow. Go ahead, Edit your post with more garbage. Why don't you trying discrediting Padre Jorge A. Lira the way I discredited your Brit?

Stil waiting, San Atanasio
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
Ignorance is bold, because it is also accompanied by arrogance and obstinacy in error. Ultraviolet is not only wrong but maliciously persecutes the Catholic faithful who defend the Truth.
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
«In the indigenous philosophy, the Pachamama is a living being.
The draft of the new law states: "She is sacred, fertile and the source of life that feeds and cares for all living beings in her womb. She is in permanent balance, harmony and communication with the cosmos. She is comprised of all ecosystems and living beings, and their self-organisation." theguardian.com/…nshrines-natural-worlds-…More
«In the indigenous philosophy, the Pachamama is a living being.
The draft of the new law states: "She is sacred, fertile and the source of life that feeds and cares for all living beings in her womb. She is in permanent balance, harmony and communication with the cosmos. She is comprised of all ecosystems and living beings, and their self-organisation." theguardian.com/…nshrines-natural-worlds-rights
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
Look at these images of the Pachamama that denies what @Ultraviolet says
V.R.S.
The Church has always fought with the Pachamama idolatry. Cf. for example:
books.google.co.uk/…to_the_Virgin_of_Copacaba.html=snippet&q=Pachamama&f=false
iwirawan
The narrative they are going to promote here is the earth is our mother, and probably the earth's mother is the Vatican with Bergoglio as it's head. That makes them like God. Who is like God?
The next they probably will copy the Catholic liturgy for us to worship them? What a mess!
Ultraviolet
From YOUR wiki source. @F M Shyanguya A more literal translation (of Pachamam) would be "World Mother" (in the Aymara and Quechua languages). "World Mother" is not "Mother Earth" and neither Aymaran nor Quechuan. is Latin.

Likewise, a naked woman with a child in her womb is not a clothed woman with a globe in her womb. Religious iconography exists for a reason.

Get a real computer with…More
From YOUR wiki source. @F M Shyanguya A more literal translation (of Pachamam) would be "World Mother" (in the Aymara and Quechua languages). "World Mother" is not "Mother Earth" and neither Aymaran nor Quechuan. is Latin.

Likewise, a naked woman with a child in her womb is not a clothed woman with a globe in her womb. Religious iconography exists for a reason.

Get a real computer with a proper monitor and keyboard and try visiting the sites you're citing. :P
F M Shyanguya
How quickly people forget or things are coming at them so fast. Cf The Desolating Sacrilege at Holy Mass concluding the Pan-Amazon Synod of Bishops 2019-10-27: ‘let those who are in Rome flee to the mountains!’

Our “La Pachamama”, or Our Mother Earth.
F M Shyanguya
One of the links is that Wordpress blog post:
Ultraviolet
At the risk of repeating myself, "Mother Earth" isn't "Pachamama." The iconography of the pagan "Pachamama" diety never included clothes or wheat in its hair or had the globe of the earth as a pregnancy. (doubtful the savages worshipping Pachamama knew the earth was a glob).

This might well be a different panthiest eco-diety, but it isn't Pachamama.

"Their silence makes the whole institutional …More
At the risk of repeating myself, "Mother Earth" isn't "Pachamama." The iconography of the pagan "Pachamama" diety never included clothes or wheat in its hair or had the globe of the earth as a pregnancy. (doubtful the savages worshipping Pachamama knew the earth was a glob).

This might well be a different panthiest eco-diety, but it isn't Pachamama.

"Their silence makes the whole institutional Church complicit"

Not so @Deacon Nick Donnelly . First, the whole institutional Church is bound by laws of obedience. Also, silence does not automatically imply consent, a point explicitly reaffirmed as a principle of law by the U.S. Supreme Court.
mccallansteve
The masons who control the Vatican are very confident and are in the, "In your face" mode. They are in for a big surprise, as the sodomites in Sodom and Gomorrah found out.
Alex A
And the masons being who?
Alex A
FM. Pope John Paul had called for the interreligious service ergo, he was responsible for what occurred within the Catholic Church. Tom Nash's defence of John Paul is not the only point of view on the Assisi incident, nor was it John Paul's first, nor last time, he intentionally or unintentionally, scandalised the faithful. See; google.com/…jsAhUp3XMBHQTQC6IQr4kDegQIARAa
V.R.S.
"Their silence makes the whole institutional Church complicit"
---
Just like in 1986 when the Buddha idol was placed on the altar of the living God in Assisi. Few like Msgr. Lefebvre did not comply.
F M Shyanguya
Cf Did St. Pope John Paul II Authorize Buddhist Worship? by Tom Nash | Catholic Answers

Abp Lefebvre cannot be held up as someone to emulate within the Church. He and the Society acknowledge his willful disobedience to legitimate Church authority and he died excommunicated from the Church.
disposable
that was NOT a legitmate church authority... the LEGITIMATE ones never could place a budah in a Catholic Church... so, dont call them "legitimate"
V.R.S.
@F M Shyanguya
I do not understand: if Buddha was legitimate then why Pachamama is not?
Maximilian Schmitt
What kind of "spirit" did fertilize the so-called Mother Earth, represented by this Indian girl? What does this have to do with the "spirit" invoked during the Novus Ordo Episcopal Consecration? Why did the author of this book choose this strange image of a dancing Indian woman when the topic is the new rite of consecration of bishops? The answer is to be found on page: On the supposed invalidit…More
What kind of "spirit" did fertilize the so-called Mother Earth, represented by this Indian girl? What does this have to do with the "spirit" invoked during the Novus Ordo Episcopal Consecration? Why did the author of this book choose this strange image of a dancing Indian woman when the topic is the new rite of consecration of bishops? The answer is to be found on page: On the supposed invalidity of the Novus Ordo of episcopale consecrations due to its Spirit Christology
Alex A
Following the current 'debate', with all its variant points, I found myself musing on the notion of an analogy akin to the 'noble art of self-defence'-the reader would, I'm sure, readily appreciate this knowing yours truly is as an ex- pugilist, with a record of three losses from three fights, (if nothing else, I was consistent.)-The point[s]? O yes. Picture if you will, in the red corner we …More
Following the current 'debate', with all its variant points, I found myself musing on the notion of an analogy akin to the 'noble art of self-defence'-the reader would, I'm sure, readily appreciate this knowing yours truly is as an ex- pugilist, with a record of three losses from three fights, (if nothing else, I was consistent.)-The point[s]? O yes. Picture if you will, in the red corner we have a conglomerate of Latino's and their supporters, aka, "The Spanish Inquisition" Vs, in the blue corner, "Ultraviolet" aka "Will o' the Wisp" [nickname of a former featherweight champion, Willy Pep.] or, aka, "The Scarlet Pimpernel". As an 'unbiased' self-appointed referee, the score-card reads, Red-Corner 0. Blue-Corner 20. Being somewhat brain-damaged. I declare the contest, a draw. 😉