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Archbishop Viganò On the Brink of Schism. The Unheeded Lesson of Benedict XVI - Settimo Cielo - …

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San Atanasio ora pro nobis
We want Sandro Magister to explain to us, if Vatican II is not dogmatic but pastoral, then why does rejecting the heresies that have been cleverly incorporated into various Vatican II documents make someone who is faithful to the deposit of faith and Tradition schismatic ? In other words, according to Magister Vatican II, that is not dogmatic, it is an untouchable idol that is above the dogmatic …More
We want Sandro Magister to explain to us, if Vatican II is not dogmatic but pastoral, then why does rejecting the heresies that have been cleverly incorporated into various Vatican II documents make someone who is faithful to the deposit of faith and Tradition schismatic ? In other words, according to Magister Vatican II, that is not dogmatic, it is an untouchable idol that is above the dogmatic teachings of the Church. Schismatics are those who do not adhere to dogmatic councils like Trent to which every Catholic is obliged to obey and to give his total assent to the will to the dogmatic teachings of the Church. A "pastoral" council cannot contradict a dogmatic council. The Infallible Magisterium of the Church teaches that the documents of heretics opposed to the teachings of the Church are invalid and null.
Dr Bobus
It's no secret what happened JohnXXIII knew there were problems in the Church, but he didn't know how to address them. He called VII, hoping that the Council would have some ideas. Unfortunately, the Germans, with Rahner leading the way, were the only ones who arrived with an agenda. The Council Reformation Church was disassembled, and the Ecumanic Church took its place.

All the promises about …More
It's no secret what happened JohnXXIII knew there were problems in the Church, but he didn't know how to address them. He called VII, hoping that the Council would have some ideas. Unfortunately, the Germans, with Rahner leading the way, were the only ones who arrived with an agenda. The Council Reformation Church was disassembled, and the Ecumanic Church took its place.

All the promises about a New Pentecost were not surprisingly little else than liberal flatulence. Since then, the Vatican has done little else than play geopolitical games and complain about sexual morality
F M Shyanguya
F M Shyanguya
@San Atanasio ora pro nobis Read Card. Brandmüller.
Ultraviolet
Not these guys again, inventing Abp. Vigano's position for him The man knows exactly how far he can go in criticizing Church leadership while staying firmly on the right side of Church teachings.
Alex A
The damage caused by V2 is irreversible, at least by man. Arguing whether Archbishop Vigano or Pope Benedict XV1, or anyone else for that matter, is 'correct' in their interpretations of the Council promulgation's seems to me to be pointless.
Dr Bobus
It's not a matter of Ratzinger being correct in interpreting Vat II. He is simply referring to texts harmonious with Church Tradition. He's well.aware that there are also texts that are not.
F M Shyanguya
There is the Church’s position, and a pope of the Church who is even viewed favorably by Trad Inc has weighed in.
Alex A
@FM >I take it you are not a Traditionalist? Just curious.
F M Shyanguya
@Alex A Nope! At the beginning of Pope Francis’ pontificate, realizing we were in a huge crisis, I was tempted that way but was turned off inter alia, by the arrogance of those who identify themselves as such.

I have charitably described them as being about the works of the LORD rather than about the LORD of the works. E.g.
Alex A
FM> Interesting. Your reasoning for not 'returning to Tradition' I mean. To be sure there are arrogant people in the Traditional circles, as true for any group of people. But I wonder, does not pride also affect decisions we make?
F M Shyanguya
@Alex A Return? If you have read the penetrating input on VII by Card. Brandmüller the Church never leaves Apostolic Tradition, therefore I prefer, ‘faithfulness,’ ‘orthodoxy’, being with the Church warts and all. She may be unrecognizable but it is still her following and in the path of her Head & Groom.

Pride, the first of the Capital sins, the Devil’s own.
Alex A
Card. Brandmullar, not alone in his analyses, starts from a position of 'bias'- i.e. the Church can't be wrong regarding V2- he then has to employ theological gymnastics in an attempt to justify his position. Your own terms of justifying your position is equally 'contortionistic' with a tint of arrogance. For example, 'faithfulness'- Are you suggesting that you are more faithful than a …More
Card. Brandmullar, not alone in his analyses, starts from a position of 'bias'- i.e. the Church can't be wrong regarding V2- he then has to employ theological gymnastics in an attempt to justify his position. Your own terms of justifying your position is equally 'contortionistic' with a tint of arrogance. For example, 'faithfulness'- Are you suggesting that you are more faithful than a Traditionalist? Or any other group within the wider Church? Personally I have not come across anyone in Traditional circles that claimed superiority in faithfulness. Our hold to Tradition is pointedly articulated with the following: Eugenio Pacelli, future Pius XII.

"I am worried by the Blessed Virgin's messages to Lucy of Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in Her liturgy, Her theology and Her soul. … I hear all around me innovators who wish to dismantle the Sacred Chapel, destroy the universal flame of the Church, reject Her ornaments and make Her feel remorse for Her historical past.
"A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. She will be tempted to believe that man has become God. In our churches, Christians will search in vain for the red lamp where God awaits them. Like Mary Magdalene, weeping before the empty tomb, they will ask, 'Where have they taken Him?'"

Roche, "Pie XII Devant L'Historie", p. 52-53
F M Shyanguya
@Alex A I take it you identify yourself as a “Traditionalist”, if that be the case you have just proven my point.