PillarCatholic Against Fr Altman
DefendTruth

Altman buys Wisconsin home amid diocesan conflict

Fr. James Altman. YouTube screenshot. State real estate records in Wisconsin indicate that Fr. James Altman intends to comply with a diocesan order …
Ultraviolet
So now MSNBC-DJRESQ tries appealing to GTV readers' Faith, pushing the same lies.. Meaning he's still tellng you what to think.

No suprise. He cares nothing for the truth, so it's natural for him to get "holy" as a last-ditch scam.

"To those reading this thread": Please donate one dollar to your favorite Catholic food pantry for every time MSNBC-DJRESQ pushed his false narrative that I suppo…More
So now MSNBC-DJRESQ tries appealing to GTV readers' Faith, pushing the same lies.. Meaning he's still tellng you what to think.

No suprise. He cares nothing for the truth, so it's natural for him to get "holy" as a last-ditch scam.

"To those reading this thread": Please donate one dollar to your favorite Catholic food pantry for every time MSNBC-DJRESQ pushed his false narrative that I supposedly "think diocesan priests take "vows of poverty." -AFTER I've refuted them again and again and...

If you count 'em all up, by now you'll be able to buy a needy family, even a big family, a great dinner because even now, here, the media-mouth just relentlessly doggedly, keeps repeating his lie.

...because that's how Lots'a Letters Liars makes a lie stick, by ignoring the facts and repeating the lie.

MSNBC, CNN, DRESQ, the letters change but the lies don't. Masks Save Lies. The Vaccines Work. Biden Won The Election and UV Thinks "diocesan priests take "vows of poverty." Fact is "vows of poverty" was in scare-quotes and GTV's Lots'a Letter Liar just won't accept that because it doesn't fit his narrative.

As for Father Altman. "Good priests" live simple lives and they obey their superiors. Father Altman does neither. He's an internet celebrity, he's a professional speaker doing fund-raisers for his "Coalition" he bought a $290,000 home after his successful $600,000 "Coalition" tour, he paid cash for the house in full, and he doesn't obey his Bishop.

DJRESQ has made a career on this thread out of telling unconscionable deliberate falsehoods. He's tried every possble contortion of the facts from deliberately misinterpreting "scare quotes" as literal, to arguing over the relevancy of home-value prices and the average annual salary of Father Altman's former flock ($22k a year, before taxes).

Given that kind mindset, his standards for a "good priest" are right on par with Pope Francis praising Father Martin, SJ.
DJRESQ
To those reading this thread: The bottom line in all this is that we, as Catholics, need to stand up against the detraction of our good priests such as Father Altman, especially by those who are so ignorant of the Catholic Faith that they think diocesan priests take "vows of poverty." God bless Father Altman and his family, who live in a normal, middle class home in Wisconsin, the fantasies of …More
To those reading this thread: The bottom line in all this is that we, as Catholics, need to stand up against the detraction of our good priests such as Father Altman, especially by those who are so ignorant of the Catholic Faith that they think diocesan priests take "vows of poverty." God bless Father Altman and his family, who live in a normal, middle class home in Wisconsin, the fantasies of his detractors notwithstanding.
Ave Crux
And to prove the baselessness of the unwarranted -- not say unkind -- inference that Father is living lavishly, I just searched online for Median Home Prices in Wisconsin, which includes even the poorest, more rural sections of that State as well as the most wealthy and "posh".

The median home price in Wisconsin is $250,000 as of this month, 4th column from the right in the graphic below being …More
And to prove the baselessness of the unwarranted -- not say unkind -- inference that Father is living lavishly, I just searched online for Median Home Prices in Wisconsin, which includes even the poorest, more rural sections of that State as well as the most wealthy and "posh".

The median home price in Wisconsin is $250,000 as of this month, 4th column from the right in the graphic below being the month of August 2021.

So, Father and his family made a solid offer on a home above asking price of $269K to avoid a bidding war in today's "Seller's Market", instead of burning their assets in rent.

That was an excellent, prudent decision before God.

In any event, as pointed out elsewhere by @DJRESQ, Father was bound by his Bishop to remain in the diocese and was constrained to buy a home there, so values elsewhere mean nothing.

I know in my area of the country, $250-290K for a home buys a tiny, rundown house near inner city neighborhoods, so it's absolutely unfitting to accuse Father of posh living when it's modest by middle class standards in the United States for sure.

wra.org/Resources/Property/Wisconsin_Housing_Statistics/

And another source from Zillow says the following, the median home price in the U.S. being exactly the price at which the home Father and his parents purchased was offered on the market:

"According to Zillow, the typical value of U.S. homes is $269,039 as of January 2021, a 9.1% increase from January 2020. Between 1999 and 2021, the median price has more than doubled from $111,000 to $269,039."
Ultraviolet
"The median home price in Wisconsin is $250,000 as of this month,"

Roughly $45K LOWER than Fr. Altman's house which is double the average annual salary of his former parishioners in the state. Before Taxes. You're not helping. ;-)

"instead of burning their assets in rent."

...because condos don't exist and the only homes available are over $250K. You're not helping. ;-)

"That was an excel…More
"The median home price in Wisconsin is $250,000 as of this month,"

Roughly $45K LOWER than Fr. Altman's house which is double the average annual salary of his former parishioners in the state. Before Taxes. You're not helping. ;-)

"instead of burning their assets in rent."

...because condos don't exist and the only homes available are over $250K. You're not helping. ;-)

"That was an excellent, prudent decision before God."

So was Bernie Sanders buying his third home. It's sure to accrue in value, too. The rich get richer and you're not helping. ;-).

"Father was bound by his Bishop to remain in the diocese and was constrained to buy a home there..."

...because condos don't exist and the only homes available are all over $250K. You're not helping. ;-)

"I know in my area of the country, $250-290K for a home buys a tiny, rundown house near inner city neighborhoods,"

.....and you just wrote, "so values elsewhere mean nothing." Gotta love the irony. God forbid Father Internet Celebrity should have to live near the "inner city", eh'? That means poor people and even (gasp!) minorities.He might even have talk to them! :P Can't have that! You're not helping. ;-)

"It's modest by middle class standards in the United States for sure"

See your own last point "so values elsewhere mean nothing." You're not helping. ;-)

" says the following, the median home price in the U.S."

Wash, Rinse, Repeat. :D
Ave Crux
Ultraviolet, why don't you just give up and admit you were wrong and completely incorrect in your insinuations in attacking a wonderful Priest, instead of defending your monstrous character detraction? You should be ASHAMED.....and yet you just keep adding more vile comments on top of your preceding vile comments.

I had to care for an elderly parent, and it's no easy task. Here, Father is caring…More
Ultraviolet, why don't you just give up and admit you were wrong and completely incorrect in your insinuations in attacking a wonderful Priest, instead of defending your monstrous character detraction? You should be ASHAMED.....and yet you just keep adding more vile comments on top of your preceding vile comments.

I had to care for an elderly parent, and it's no easy task. Here, Father is caring for BOTH of his parents, and all you can do is try to besmirch his character for sharing a modest home with them. Disgusting....
Ultraviolet
...because I'm not wrong, you just choose to ignore "wonderful" Father Altman's lavish home-buying the way people who like Bernie Sanders do.

The both of them share a taste for fine liiving and don't like people asking where their money comes from. "Wonderful" Priests don't clam up when a reputable Catholic online news agency asks to see their fund-raising books. "Wonderful" Priests live simple …More
...because I'm not wrong, you just choose to ignore "wonderful" Father Altman's lavish home-buying the way people who like Bernie Sanders do.

The both of them share a taste for fine liiving and don't like people asking where their money comes from. "Wonderful" Priests don't clam up when a reputable Catholic online news agency asks to see their fund-raising books. "Wonderful" Priests live simple lives the way Christ taught.

Christ didn't go on speaking tour to raise money for his "Coalition of Apostles." He didn't buy his parents a big fancy house when He was finished.

"I had to care for an elderly parent, and it's no easy task."

Good for you. Here's your club membership card. Check your membership number. It shows you're one of tens of thousands of adults who've done the same.

"Here, Father is caring for BOTH of his parents..."

How did "wonderful" Father Altman care for his parents when he was travelling around the country on his public-speaking fund-raising tour?

Gotcha. ;-)

"sharing a modest home with them"

...and you're just as bad as MSNBC-DJRESQ. repeating the same garbage. The home-sales numbers don't support "modest". Modesty would mean buying a home or a condo below the average.

"Wonderful" Father Altmans' "modest" home is well above the average home value for Wisconsin, it's even FURTHER above the average home value for LaCrosse.

The only thing that's modest is the annual salary of Father Altman's former parishioners. The average annual salary is $22k a year. Before Taxes.

None of that bothers you, Ave Crux. You, being you, are going to ignore all of that. That's what you do because of the way you view the world.

You've decided "wonderful" Father Altman's actions are good, no matter what because you like what he says..

A lot of people like Bernie Sanders for the same reason. The media and the left likes Pope Francis for that same reason.. But that doesn't mean any of those men live modest lives or that they're "wonderful".
Ave Crux
@Ultraviolet To broaden the perspective on this a bit, one needs to consider that the home which Father Altman and his parents now share is also Father's new church, since he has been expelled by his Bishop from living in any parish.

In all likelihood, Father will be offering his Daily Mass and praying the Office each day in that home now that he's been expelled, and one bedroom will most …More
@Ultraviolet To broaden the perspective on this a bit, one needs to consider that the home which Father Altman and his parents now share is also Father's new church, since he has been expelled by his Bishop from living in any parish.

In all likelihood, Father will be offering his Daily Mass and praying the Office each day in that home now that he's been expelled, and one bedroom will most certainly be used as a chapel.

Even my own family and I have reserved a spare bedroom in our home for use as an Oratory and place of prayer, and we don't even have to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass each day!

That being so, it would hardly be fitting to offer Mass each day with rock music or a loud TV playing on the other side of a condo wall, or cohabitating couples right next door on an adjoining wall(s); or in a home hemmed in on all sides by close-by neighbors without due respect for the privacy and decorum which ought to be accorded the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass being offered there each day, and perhaps even the Blessed Sacrament being reserved by Father for his private veneration.

Monasteries vowed to poverty are normally spacious and situated on large, secluded acreage whenever possible to allow for privacy and distance from the world for spiritual reasons. I'm sure this was one of the considerations when Father and his family chose this home.

Father is a Priest with a uniquely spiritual vocation in the sight of God -- his vocation still warrants a setting that befits his sacred priestly duties, and a home for 3 people on its own lot for $290K in today's market is a far cry from being lavish.
Ultraviolet
"To broaden the perspective on this a bit," @Ave Crux

Let's NOT "broaden the perspective a bit". Let's stay right on topic for a change. He bought a $290,000 home right after he raked in $600,000 for his "Coalition" and now he doesn't want anyone looking at the account-books. that's my perspective, not "let's find a way to white-wash all that away."

Legitimate charities are transparent in …More
"To broaden the perspective on this a bit," @Ave Crux

Let's NOT "broaden the perspective a bit". Let's stay right on topic for a change. He bought a $290,000 home right after he raked in $600,000 for his "Coalition" and now he doesn't want anyone looking at the account-books. that's my perspective, not "let's find a way to white-wash all that away."

Legitimate charities are transparent in their financial dealings: what they spend, where they spend it, where their money came from, where it goes, how much is spent on salaries, etc. Hit Charity Navigator some time and you'll see what I mean..

Father Altman is banking big bucks thanks to his white clerical collar, his YouTube tantrums, celebrity speaking, and a wide-eyed, "Trust Me, I'mma Priest".

If Jim Bakker had been Catholic clergy, his PTL Network wouldn't have been much different.

Priests can and have celebrated Mass on the back of trucks, in forests, and in mud-caked, rat-infested trenches during wartime.

Don't act like MSNBC-DJRESQ and start appealing to our Catholic faith, just to shore up your talking points or to justify Father Altman's cushy new pad.

Near as I can tell, he isn't welcoming parishioners into "his new Church" all week long. If I'm mistaken on that, fair enough. Please DO post the street address for this "new Church" and the times the Sacraments are celebrated. :P

Good luck with that, because Father Altman isn't celebrating baptisms in the bathroom, confessions in the kitchen, and Mass in the living-room all in a three-bedroom home shared with Mom 'n Dad.

So, really, no. I commend you for having an Oratory and for having the ability to reserve an entire room just for the purpose. I wish -I- could do that.

Other people priests and laity alike who are far less-well off than Father Altman, you, or me still manage to set a small portion of their living spaces aside for God as well. The Russian Orthodox schismatics have been following this devout practice for centuries, from the time when they were still living in forest-cut log homes to cramped apartments in the USSR.

They all managed to worship God without buying a $290,000 home situated on a lush wooded 1 acre (according to MSNBC-DJRESQ). Father Altman could do the same.

Last time I checked, in Luke 22: 11-12 Christ celebrated The Last Supper in somebody else's home in their upstairs living quarters. Christ didn't tell his Apostles, "Go thou, and buyest a goodly home for two hundred ninety thousand shekels so we may taketh our last meal together."

"That being so, it would hardly be fitting to offer Mass each day with rock music or a loud TV playing on the other side of a condo wall,

...yet many devout priests who don't go on nation-wide speaking tours, priests who live on far more modest means do just that. This is a variation of MSNBC-DJREQ's "mansion or ghetto" false dilemma.

By all rights, if Father Altman bought this residence "for his elderly parents", they would qualify for any of the 55+ retiree condo or apartment communities. Those places are dead silent, almost eeire quiet even on the weekends.

"or in a home hemmed in on all sides by close by neighbors without due respect for the privacy and decorum which ought to be accorded the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass being offered there each day"

You've been watching to many sit-coms on TV. Even if Father Altan lived in a nice apartment complex much less a home, his neighbors aren't going to go walking in, "on set" whenever they please.

...because most people work for a living.

Home-owners and apartment-dwellers go to work. They either work from home ("integrated" into a computer work-station/ home-office for 12-16 hours every day like some H.R. Giger biomechanioid) or they're away from home all day. Much of the middle class, husbands and wives alike work now. Dad's at work, mom's at work, the kids are at school,

Father Altman has the whole empty neighborhood all to himself just to celebrate Mass. :P

"Monasteries vowed to poverty are normally spacious and situated on large, secluded acreage whenever possible to allow for privacy and distance from the world for spiritual reasons."

Priests don't live the same lives as monks and Father Internet Celebrity definitely isn't a monk. :D

"I'm sure this was one of the considerations when Father and his family chose this home."

You may be "sure" but only because you want to keep making excuses for Father Altman.

I'm "sure" he made his choice with far more worldly motivations than celebrating Mass!

He had the cash available, coincidentally after his $600k "Coalition for Cancelled Priests" tour and he bought a home on a big piece of land that's sure to dramatically increase in value.

It isn't lost on me, at least, after his parents are gone, he can subdivide that acre into AT LEAST four new properties on 1/4 acre lots which are still very nice pieces of land these days. Houses today are often built on far, far smaller lots, especially recent construction.

"a home for 3 people on its own lot for $290K in today's market is a far cry from being lavish."

Tell that to this YouTube shepherd's (former) "flock" who are crammed into whatever stalls they can afford in some landlord's barn living on an average $22K a year salary, before taxes. Ask them what "a far cry fom lavish" means.
Ave Crux
@Ultraviolet Simply put -- you are REPREHENSIBLE..... May God forgive you for trashing without cause -- and a completely imaginary narrative made up in your own perverse, accusatory mind -- the reputation of an excellent, faithful Priest.
Ultraviolet
You're focusing on "God" only AFTER you failed on the facts. @Ave Crux MSNBC-DJRESQ already tried that. Don't turn The Almighty into a debating tactic just to white-wash Father Altman. You tried arguing the numbers and you blew it. It's a little late for getting "holy".. :P

I'm not attacking Father Altamn's faith. That is your "completely imaginary narrative".

My narrative is based on
1.) …More
You're focusing on "God" only AFTER you failed on the facts. @Ave Crux MSNBC-DJRESQ already tried that. Don't turn The Almighty into a debating tactic just to white-wash Father Altman. You tried arguing the numbers and you blew it. It's a little late for getting "holy".. :P

I'm not attacking Father Altamn's faith. That is your "completely imaginary narrative".

My narrative is based on
1.) how much Father Altman made on his speaking tour...
2.) how much he spent on a new home after his speaking tour....
3.) how much other homes cost in his area.
4.) how much the average person in his state earns in a year
5.) how Father Altman refuses to let anyone look at his charity's account-books.

That last "how" is very disturbing. Transparency is the hallmark of a legitimate charity.

I'm also contrasting all of that against
1.) what The Church (and Canon Law) teaches about clerical obedience
2.)what Christ taught abut rich men.

Seems I should start contrasting these sudden outbursts of yours invoking God against what Christ taught about the Pharisees who pulled the same stunt 2000 years ago. ;-)
Ave Crux
@Ultraviolet all I can say is that you just keep embarrassing and shaming yourself more and more, and adding more guilt upon guilt. You really should stop....
Ultraviolet
That's all you can say because you fail on the facts and can't refute those presented.. Durr hurr, "U keep embarrasin' yerself" Welcome to this week's pod-cast of Over-Used And Ineffective Internet Rebuttals. Here's your host, Ave Crux. :P
Ultraviolet
So you loused up and now you're miffed that you can't tell the difference betewen $250k and $250K+ @Ave Crux

"Essentially, I don't care how you try to justify it."

That's obvious. When the facts contract you, NEVER care and just go right on repeating your claims absent any support whatsoever.

Is "character detraction" a civil offense ? Or did you mean "defamation of character". Either way …More
So you loused up and now you're miffed that you can't tell the difference betewen $250k and $250K+ @Ave Crux

"Essentially, I don't care how you try to justify it."

That's obvious. When the facts contract you, NEVER care and just go right on repeating your claims absent any support whatsoever.

Is "character detraction" a civil offense ? Or did you mean "defamation of character". Either way you don't know what you're talking about and it shows.

"when you don't even know the facts."

None that you've shown are in error. Irony coming from someone who can't cut and paste from my comment without making a mess of it.

Father's "journey to the Priesthood". doesn't change when he bought this posh place for himself and his folks or how much he paid for it. Or how much other homes sell for.

"we also don't know the financial capacity of his parents, who may easily have"

You're such a classic. "We also don't know..." followed by whatever theory YOU suggest even though, we don't know --all without one shred of evidence to support your claim is a probability.

" certainly with a paid off mortgage by this stage in their elderly lives.."

Why is that a certainty? It isn't.

"They are entitled as a family to the fruits of their collective labor."

Father's "labor" consists of nothing more than internet celebrity and disobedience to his Bishop. Like so many entertainers, he's been vastly overpaid for it.

"AND, $290k for a home for himself and his parents is absolutely modest by middle class standards."

You repeating the claim you did earlier isn't going to get you anywhere. My cites show otherwise.

"We are not talking about a median home price that includes inner city Newark, NJ homes."

...then don't raise it. In terms of Wisconsin prices, he's still well above the average.

"Just withdraw your blameworthy aspersion on Father's character and leave it at that."

There's nothing blame-worthy about calling a rich priest for what he is or pointing out what Christ Himself said how easily the rich enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Father Altmans' got a nice racket, it pays very well but that doensn't change what it is and what he is.

Why don't YOU start supplying some hard facts instead of your pointless sanctimonious hand-wringing and whining about "blameworthy"?.

You're as bad as the-cheerleaders for Bernie Sanders. You like Fr. Altman and they like Bernie so when it comes to his wealth and the luxury he buys for himself, you don't care even when it's relevant to his "message".
Ave Crux
Ultraviolet, I initially copied $250k from your comment below: "Paying cash for a $250k+ home on a one acre lot" then corrected it afterward upon realizing it was an error.

Essentially, I don't care how you try to justify it. Your comments about Father were absolutely unwarranted, baseless and judgmental, and amount to character detraction when you don't even know the facts. You should withd…More
Ultraviolet, I initially copied $250k from your comment below: "Paying cash for a $250k+ home on a one acre lot" then corrected it afterward upon realizing it was an error.

Essentially, I don't care how you try to justify it. Your comments about Father were absolutely unwarranted, baseless and judgmental, and amount to character detraction when you don't even know the facts. You should withdraw the detraction instead of trying to excuse it

Father explains in the story of his journey to the Priesthood that he was a very successful lawyer before entering the seminary; we also don't know the financial capacity of his parents, who may easily have sold their home to contribute to buying this one -- certainly with a paid off mortgage by this stage in their elderly lives..

They are entitled as a family to the fruits of their collective labor. AND, $290k for a home for himself and his parents is absolutely modest by middle class standards. We are not talking about a median home price that includes inner city Newark, NJ homes.

Just withdraw your blameworthy aspersion on Father's character and leave it at that.
Ultraviolet
"I don't consider a $250K home... " @Ave Crux

First, it wasn't a $250K home, Ave Crux. It was a $290K home. It's well above national home-prices, even in Wisconsin.

"-- who most likely paid for the home from their own assets".

Most people can't afford to pay cash for a home either. --and you don't know what's "most likely" or where the funds came from to buy the home. Fr. Altman doesn'…More
"I don't consider a $250K home... " @Ave Crux

First, it wasn't a $250K home, Ave Crux. It was a $290K home. It's well above national home-prices, even in Wisconsin.

"-- who most likely paid for the home from their own assets".

Most people can't afford to pay cash for a home either. --and you don't know what's "most likely" or where the funds came from to buy the home. Fr. Altman doesn't allow examination of his fund-raiser financial records any more than Jim 'n Tammy Bakker ever did. :D

"It's very modest by even middle class standards."

Wrong. It's $53,000 over the price of the average Wisconsin home price --an average which is artificially inflated because it includes those of the wealthy.

Let's not forget $53,000 is more than many "middle class" people make in a year, even before Federal/ state income taxes.

So it isn't "very modest by even middle class standards."

By today's "middle class standards" most of the middle class can't afford to buy a home at all, mortgage or not. Most are renting.

Go make excuses for Father Altman "very modest" spending when you have some hard numbers to back 'em up.

"Furthermore, it is a much more responsible use of money to purchase a home than it is to rent a home when you have the assets to do so, as I'm sure his parents do."

...as his parents do NOW, thanks to Father Altman. :D

Yes, it is more responsible "when you have the assets to do so," --and Father Altman sure has 'em NOW.

"But I guess Father should rent a one-bedroom apartment for him and his parents "

Fallacy of Black and White. Also a Slippery Slope. I "guess" in your world all apartments are one-bedroom and condominums don't exist at all.

In your world, I "guess" the middle class all live in three bedroom homes situated on one acre lots, too. In the real world, the middle class don't live like that anymore and haven't for a long, long time now.. Maybe you and and Father Altman do, but that's not under dispute.

Man, oh man, Nothing like the "middle-class" modesty of the pharisaical rich and those those making excuses for them. Fr. Altman is about as "middle class" as that other big blabbermouth, Bernie Sanders.

"Yet, Ultraviolet will spin dozens of paragraphs in order to defend such a blameworthy post."

Matthew 19:24 Christ made an equally "blameworthy" comment about the wealthy. --and it was comment, not a post, sweetie. ;-)

"It should never have been said about such a fine, faithful, sacrificial Priest."

The truth doesn't change just because it contradicts your starry-eyed admiration for "fine and faithful". Fr. Altman.

IThe man is loaded and there's nothing "sacrificial" about how he's spending the money people send him.
Ave Crux
I don't know what Ultraviolet considers "luxury" and "worldly comfort", but I don't consider a $290K home purchased in conjunction with taking care of two elderly parents -- who most likely paid for the home from their own assets -- living in the lap of luxury.

It's very modest by even middle class standards. Plus, land is cheap in Wisconsin.....big deal.

Furthermore, it is a much more resp…More
I don't know what Ultraviolet considers "luxury" and "worldly comfort", but I don't consider a $290K home purchased in conjunction with taking care of two elderly parents -- who most likely paid for the home from their own assets -- living in the lap of luxury.

It's very modest by even middle class standards. Plus, land is cheap in Wisconsin.....big deal.

Furthermore, it is a much more responsible use of money to purchase a home than it is to rent a home when you have the assets to do so, as I'm sure his parents do. Renting a home when you have sufficient assets to buy a home equates to burning money.

But I guess Father should rent a one-bedroom apartment for him and his parents -- despite their own accumulated assets at this point in their lives -- sleep on the couch and give the bedroom to his parents....?

Yet, Ultraviolet will spin dozens of paragraphs in order to defend such a blameworthy post. Not surprising... just give it up, Ultraviolet and delete the denigrating commentary on Father Altman. It should never have been said about such a fine, faithful, sacrificial Priest.
DJRESQ
It was a reprehensible comment from someone who didn't even know that diocesan priests don't take vows of poverty, putting Father Altman on a par with Jim Bakker. Christ is happy about the smug attack on His priest, I'm sure.

Then when the ignorant error is exposed, instead of admitting it with humility, UV doubles down, making excuses that are easily seen through.

The line about putting someth…More
It was a reprehensible comment from someone who didn't even know that diocesan priests don't take vows of poverty, putting Father Altman on a par with Jim Bakker. Christ is happy about the smug attack on His priest, I'm sure.

Then when the ignorant error is exposed, instead of admitting it with humility, UV doubles down, making excuses that are easily seen through.

The line about putting something in scare quotes is disingenuous at best. A person would have no reason to even bring up the topic of "a vow of poverty" unless that person thought it was applicable to the point being asserted.

In talking about the "average" home price in WI (which is irrelevant because Father has been ordered to stay within a certain section of WI, which he is obviously obeying), UV says this: "It's $53,000 over the price of the average Wisconsin home price --an average which is artificially inflated because it includes those of the wealthy."

First, UV misread the link provided.

Second, the ignorant statement above doesn't take into consideration that the average home price also includes the homes of the poor and the lower middle class, who outnumber the wealthy by quite a bit.

Third, it also doesn't take into account that Father must live within the confines of the diocese, so the "average" home price for the entire state is irrelevant.

The average home price for WI could be $10, but if the average home price for the area of the diocese were $2 million, the fact that it's only 10 bucks for the whole state is meaningless.

The lack of reasoning UV demonstrates is shocking.

Protip to UV: You have no idea whether the average you mentioned above is "artificially inflated" because you have no idea how many poor/lower middle class homeowners there are in comparison to wealthy homeowners, and you have no idea what the average home prices are for each category.

Nor do you know what the "average" home price is for the diocese where Father is required to live, which is the controlling factor here, not an average for the whole state.

Your apparent inability to understand that, is more than evident.
Ave Crux
@DJRESQ You touched on every point and all the concerns. To publicly denigrate the reputation such a fine, heroic Priest who stands on the front lines for us both spiritually and figuratively -- moreover to do so on the basis of rash suppositions, and from the comfort of one's armchair, so to speak -- is reprehensible.

Ultraviolet should delete the comment, and not let it stand to do more dama…More
@DJRESQ You touched on every point and all the concerns. To publicly denigrate the reputation such a fine, heroic Priest who stands on the front lines for us both spiritually and figuratively -- moreover to do so on the basis of rash suppositions, and from the comfort of one's armchair, so to speak -- is reprehensible.

Ultraviolet should delete the comment, and not let it stand to do more damage by calling into question this good Priest's character and integrity.

Thank you for your excellent rebuttal.
DJRESQ
In reading UV's remarks, I doubt it will have any effect; obviously impervious to any type of proper reasoning. I wonder how UV would act face-to-face with Father Altman and his parents? And to attack him publicly while making egregious errors of fact. What a shame.
Ultraviolet
I'll let the facts stand where they are, @Ave Crux. You should focus the ones DJRESQ deliberately misrepresents.

"obviously impervious to any type of proper reasoning. "

...which explains why you're the one making fallacies and I'm the one pointing them out. :D

"I wonder how UV would act face-to-face with Father Altman and his parents?"

The same way I'd act face-to-face with Pope Francis, …More
I'll let the facts stand where they are, @Ave Crux. You should focus the ones DJRESQ deliberately misrepresents.

"obviously impervious to any type of proper reasoning. "

...which explains why you're the one making fallacies and I'm the one pointing them out. :D

"I wonder how UV would act face-to-face with Father Altman and his parents?"

The same way I'd act face-to-face with Pope Francis, Cardinal Wilton Gregory or even Father Martin SJ, for the same reason.

.Glad you asked, now you know and Father Altman's parents have no relevance, save as beneficiaries of their son's generosity.

."from someone who didn't even know that diocesan priests don't take vows of poverty"

....and DJRESQ continues "narrating" contrary to documented facts. With all those letters for a name and all all your BS you should get a job at MSNBC. :P

That's a good example. ..Still trying to make that "didn't even know" stinker work, eh?. Again butressed with your magic mind-reading powers about what I "know".

"Christ is happy about the smug attack on His priest, I'm sure."

Christ must be thrilled with your falsehoods, amigo.

At least my "smug attack" is based on facts. You by contrast ignore them in favor of your own lies. Calumny much? When does "Lots'a Letters Media" care about lying? :D

"Then when the ignorant error is exposed, instead of admitting it with humility, UV doubles down, making excuses that are easily seen through."

...said the guy who keeps covering his illiteracy by blaming me for it.

"The line about putting something in scare quotes is disingenuous at best."

It's not a "line" it's a fact. You don't know how quotations work. Most likely you do. It's really damning that you keep repeating this even AFTER I linked up a style manual.

When does "Lots'a Letters Media admit they're wrong when they've invested so much into it, eh MSNBC-DJRESQ? ;-)

The use of "scare quotes" contradicts your entire fabricated. You don't like that so, like Ave Crux, you simply ignore everything that doesn't fit.

" A person would have no reason to even bring up the topic of "a vow of poverty" unless that person thought it was applicable to the point being asserted."

You're repeaing your same lie from earlier, again with more magic mind-reading. What else is new? When does "Lots'a Letters Media ever stop propping up a lie once they've told it?

Since I have to repeat myself... The USCCB states priest are expected to "lead a life of simplicity consonant with the people they serve."

That's easily glossed with facetious reference to a "vow of poverty" since the average income in Lacrosse, WI is only $21,944.

Priests who serve the poor don't go buying homes going for nearly 300 grand. Not if they're remainging true to their calling.

"First, UV misread the link provided."

Zero evidence shown.

MSNBC-DJRESQ continues his "narrative" and just like other MSM, he makes the claim and doesn't back it up.

"Second, the ignorant statement above doesn't take into consideration that the average home price also includes the homes of the poor and the lower middle class, who outnumber the wealthy by quite a bit."

:D Oh, I'm going to enjoy this. :D

Speaking of ignorant statements, you've just made whopper. The poor and, increasingly, the lower middle class can't afford to buy homes anymore. They may outnumber the wealthy demographically but as a home-buying market, they're non-entities. Gotcha. :)

"Third, it also doesn't take into account that Father must live within the confines of the diocese, so the "average" home price for the entire state is irrelevant."

It's a fair indicator. If you'd bothered to check, which you didn't. The average home price for the state actually puts Father in a better light than he deserves vs. Lacrosse..

"The lack of reasoning UV demonstrates is shocking."

...said the guy who counts people who can't and for all practical purposes don't buy homes anymore while weighing the prices of the well-off and the rich who still do.

...In Father Altman's case paying more than the listed price and paying in full.

"Protip to UV..."

Protip to MSNBC-DJRESQ: Home ownership is not the same as home-sales. even among the poor and lower middle-clase.

That's the mistake you made. A poor family that bought a home in 1970 and manage to hold onto it has no bearing on the houses selling today or who buys them today or for how much.

They may outnumber the rich, but they're not the ones buying homes. Whoops.

"Nor do you know what the "average" home price is for the diocese where Father is required to live, which is the controlling factor here, not an average for the whole state."

Actually, I do. ;-) I've warned you about playing mind-reading psychic DJRESQ.

But as always, you're not providing that information or ANY information supporting ANYTHING you've said.

Here's another Protip: That exceptionally droll third-person and passive voice is an old trick the "Lots'a Letters Media" writers use to desribe their falsehoods and fiction as fact.

Just one problem, on GTV, you don't control the media, DJRESQ. You can "narrate" the way MSNBC does but for once it won't go unanswered.

You're going to have to start showing facts, not just talking about the ones you didn't show. Until you start, you're not just "MSNBC", you're BS-RESQ
DJRESQ
To others who are reading, the three statements below demonstrate that UV actually did mean to say that diocesan priests take vows of poverty in her prior comment. The scare quotes are an indication that someone that should be doing something is not, and it is obvious that that is what UV meant.

When the error was pointed out, the backtracking began, and now the narrative is that it was "facetio…More
To others who are reading, the three statements below demonstrate that UV actually did mean to say that diocesan priests take vows of poverty in her prior comment. The scare quotes are an indication that someone that should be doing something is not, and it is obvious that that is what UV meant.

When the error was pointed out, the backtracking began, and now the narrative is that it was "facetious." Don't give the later narrative any credence.

"Since I have to repeat myself... The USCCB states priest are expected to "lead a life of simplicity consonant with the people they serve."

That's easily glossed with facetious reference to a "vow of poverty" since the average income in Lacrosse, WI is only $21,944.

Priests who serve the poor don't go buying homes going for nearly 300 grand. Not if they're remainging true to their calling."


Protip to UV: Diocesan priests don't take a vow of celibacy, and nothing in your USCCB reference even implies that they should.

And, of course, the fallacy here is encompassed by the reference that "priests who serve the poor" cannot live in middle class homes with their elderly parents and remain true to their calling.

What does that say about the overwhelming majority of diocesan priests in our country?

What about priests who serve the middle class? Can they then live in middle class homes? What about priests who serve the rich?

Those statements tell us that UV actually did mean to indicate that diocesan priests take a vow of poverty, all the protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.

UV then went on to compare apples and oranges when citing the average home price for the entire state of Wisconsin, which is irrelevant because Father cannot live in other parts of the state.

It is the equivalent of saying Father must live in California and then comparing the average price of homes there to the average price of homes in the entire country.

Then UV makes the exact same mistake by citing the average income for the City of LaCrosse as if that had any relevance to anything.

Protip to UV: Father is a diocesan priest and was ordained to minister for the entire diocese.

So, your "analysis" should not be limited to the City of LaCrosse, which says absolutely nothing, but the analysis should include the entire diocese.

How is something "easily glossed" by referring to something that is irrelevant to anything?

What is the average income for the Diocese of LaCrosse?

Another protip to UV: Comparing apples to oranges is useless, and that's exactly what you did. You obviously did not even realize the error of your analysis until it was pointed out to you.

The false reasoning being pointed out, UV had to pivot and then went in the opposite direction, limiting the comparison to only one part of the diocese: the City of LaCrosse.

LaCrosse is urban and naturally is going to have homes of lesser value than the rest of the diocese.

A person could shift and then go by zip code, going to the bad parts of town, and no doubt will find homes with average values even less than the value posted by UV. Apparently UV believes diocesan priests all need to live in the ghetto with their elderly parents so they can dodge the gunfire and the drug sales on their way to church.

Protip to UV: Father's house is not a "rich man's house." It is a middle class home surrounded by other middle class homes. 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2,308 square feet with an unfinished basement.

If that is to be considered a rich man's home, that would mean a huge percentage of people in Wisconsin live in "rich men's homes."

Perhaps UV is poor and lives in an apartment. That would explain the erroneous conclusions.
DJRESQ
To add to the above:

1) To anyone reading, yes, you should believe what I have stated about Father's house because it is the truth. I'm not going to disclose his address, but the information is a matter of public record, and UV can find it if UV so chooses. All it takes is knowledge and effort.

Protip to UV: If you doubt what I have stated, all you need do is verify it yourself. These are …More
To add to the above:

1) To anyone reading, yes, you should believe what I have stated about Father's house because it is the truth. I'm not going to disclose his address, but the information is a matter of public record, and UV can find it if UV so chooses. All it takes is knowledge and effort.

Protip to UV: If you doubt what I have stated, all you need do is verify it yourself. These are public records. Go ahead and do it.

2) UV has absolutely no knowledge as to the source of the funds that Father purchased the house with. Did Father have a savings from his prior law practice? Did his parents give him money towards the purchase? Was the money entirely from his parents?

Protip to UV: You have absolutely no knowledge of anything in that regard. Isn't that the truth of the matter?

3) Comparing Father Altman to James Bakker, an adulterer who ended up in prison, is beyond reprehensible. UV should be ashamed, and readers of this site should give no credibility to UV's erroneous ramblings and false equivalencies.
4 more comments from DJRESQ
DJRESQ
One last statement. From UV: "Glad you asked, now you know and Father Altman's parents have no relevance, save as beneficiaries of their son's generosity."

To those reading, ask yourself how UV knows whether Father Altman's parents are the beneficiaries of their son's generosity or whether it's the opposite, that Father Altman is the beneficiary of his parents' generosity.

You see, UV has …More
One last statement. From UV: "Glad you asked, now you know and Father Altman's parents have no relevance, save as beneficiaries of their son's generosity."

To those reading, ask yourself how UV knows whether Father Altman's parents are the beneficiaries of their son's generosity or whether it's the opposite, that Father Altman is the beneficiary of his parents' generosity.

You see, UV has no knowledge of how this "rich man's house" was purchased, who supplied the funds, whether those funds came from Father's friends, Father himself, or Father's parents, or whether the parents gave him half the money, et cetera.

As you can see, many of UV's gratuitous statements are based on nothing other than UV's assumptions.

To UV: Tell us where the funds to purchase this "rich man's house" come from. Tell us how much his parents contributed. Tell us how much Father saved from his prior law practice. Then inform us as to how you know such things.

We'll wait.
DJRESQ
Correction: "Diocesan priests don't take a vow of poverty..."
DJRESQ
1. "That's easily glossed with facetious reference to a "vow of poverty" since the average income in Lacrosse, WI is only $21,944."

UV doesn't even seem to realize that the average income for the City of LaCrosse tells us nothing about the average income of Catholics in the City of LaCrosse. Father Altman was ordained to minister to Catholics, so the average income in LaCrosse, WI, is a meaning…More
1. "That's easily glossed with facetious reference to a "vow of poverty" since the average income in Lacrosse, WI is only $21,944."

UV doesn't even seem to realize that the average income for the City of LaCrosse tells us nothing about the average income of Catholics in the City of LaCrosse. Father Altman was ordained to minister to Catholics, so the average income in LaCrosse, WI, is a meaningless statistic.

Every Catholic in LaCrosse could be a millionaire, and the statistic of almost $22K on average could still be true. UV has no knowledge of the numbers and uses false equivalencies.

UV, give us the statistics of the income of the Catholics in, first, the City of LaCrosse, and then in the Diocese of LaCrosse.

We will wait on that also.

As UV tacitly admitted later, without expressing it because that would be an admission of error, the average home price for the state is a meaningless figure because the true statistic that should be taken into consideration is the average home price in the Diocese of LaCrosse. Not the state, and not the city.
DJRESQ
"That's easily glossed with facetious reference to a "vow of poverty" since the average income in Lacrosse, WI is only $21,944."

Another post to show readers the misleading, and misinformed, information being provided by UV. Not sure where UV's data come from, but the information at the link tells quite a different story.

La Crosse, Wisconsin Population 2021 (Demographics, Maps, Graphs) (worldp…More
"That's easily glossed with facetious reference to a "vow of poverty" since the average income in Lacrosse, WI is only $21,944."

Another post to show readers the misleading, and misinformed, information being provided by UV. Not sure where UV's data come from, but the information at the link tells quite a different story.

La Crosse, Wisconsin Population 2021 (Demographics, Maps, Graphs) (worldpopulationreview.com)

City of LaCrosse, WI

$35,414 - Average Earnings total

$38,707 - Average Male

$31,933 - Average Female

Average household income = $63,591.

The current median figures for LaCrosse (half make above, half make below) are the following:

Households - $45,233
Families - $65,403
Married Families - $79,094

Non Families - $31,847

And of course we have no idea how the above figures relate to the Catholics Father used to minister to, nor can we know who came to his parish from outside the city, nor what their income level is.

The point is that the figure cited by UV is another example of the meaningless, and in this case woefully inaccurate, figures being used to justify ex post facto the shameful remarks about Father Altman.
Ultraviolet
"To others who are reading", MSNBC-DJRESQ still repeats his "interrpetation" of of "actually did mean to say" when it's contradicted by the "scare quotes" themselves. Look how tenacious the media-mentality is perpetuationg a lie and a narrative

"When the error was pointed out,..." MSNBC-DJRESQ choose sto read scare-quotes in the literal sense to fabricate an "error". That's a uses of scare …More
"To others who are reading", MSNBC-DJRESQ still repeats his "interrpetation" of of "actually did mean to say" when it's contradicted by the "scare quotes" themselves. Look how tenacious the media-mentality is perpetuationg a lie and a narrative

"When the error was pointed out,..." MSNBC-DJRESQ choose sto read scare-quotes in the literal sense to fabricate an "error". That's a uses of scare quotes right there, for example.

...and then the boring third-person faux-factual narrative continues totally oblivious to... HOW many refutations, now? This is how the media lies through repetition. It's designed ot just steam-roll over the facts.

"the backtracking began"

Followed by the "interpretation" tactic... MSNBC-DJRESQ's "interpretation" now is presented as fact. I correct his falsehood and that's now "backtracking". This is how how "interpretation is used to build a second false narrative.

" and now the narrative is that it was "facetious."
...and now? I've been correcting this lie since the moment you told it. Typical MSNBC-DJRESQ.

.
Ultraviolet
"Don't give the later narrative any credence." @MSNBC-DJRESQ

This is what you should think. Don't think for yourselves! That's the media's job. MSNBC-DJREQ is telling every reader what to do, what to believe.. The nerve... just the nerve. :P

"Protip to UV: Diocesan priests don't take a vow of celibacy, and nothing in your USCCB reference even implies that they should."

Protip to MSNBC-…More
"Don't give the later narrative any credence." @MSNBC-DJRESQ

This is what you should think. Don't think for yourselves! That's the media's job. MSNBC-DJREQ is telling every reader what to do, what to believe.. The nerve... just the nerve. :P

"Protip to UV: Diocesan priests don't take a vow of celibacy, and nothing in your USCCB reference even implies that they should."

Protip to MSNBC-DJRESQ: I didn't address priestly celibacy. This is another of your manufactured "corrections" where none was needed. This is how the media lies.

"And, of course, the fallacy here is encompassed by the reference"

When you use the word "fallacy" MSNBC-DJRESQ you should at least name it. You don't. You describe things and pretend the description is proof. Fallacy... which one? Doesn't matter. The Media-Mouth called a fallacy, therefore it is. Nope. Fallacies don't work that.

Gotta love the additional description of "middle class homes"... It's "middle class" because MSNBC-DJRESQ said so. No facts, no home-buying data. Shucks no.

UV supplies the facts and MSNBC-DJRESQ supplies the "descriptions" and "interpretations" of those fact. Standard media tactics.

"What about priests who serve the middle class?"

What about priests who serve people who on average make $22K a year BEFORE taxes? You know, like Father Altman? MSNBC-DJRESQ now tries to move the focus away from Fr. Altman.

"What about priests who serve the rich?"

What about what Christ said about the rich?

"Those statements tell us that UV actually did mean..."

"us"? You're speaking on behalf of GTV again? :P My statements show I expect priests to live simple lives without excess and undue luxury, like Christ did. Like Christ said.

But as always, MSNBC-DJRESQ continues relentlessly to insist scare-quotes don't mean anything even when they're in print. What I wrote doesn't beats your Media-Mouth "interpretation "of what you claim I "actually did mean".

The media never stops lying. The media never stops trying.

"which is irrelevant because Father cannot live in other parts of the state."

Thanks to MSNBC-DJRESQ's dubious claims, where Father Altman live is under question. As such, the average home prices for the state were and remain entirely relevant. Again, MSNBC-DJRESQ "interprets" the news.

"It is the equivalent of saying Father must live in California and then comparing the average price of homes there to the average price of homes in the entire country."

That's a non-Sequitur fallacy. Father Altman must live in Wisconsin. I gave the home prices for Wisconsin. False equivalency as MSNBC-DJRESQ creates a false example.

"Then UV makes the exact same mistake by citing the average income for the City of LaCrosse as if that had any relevance to anything."

Father's parish church was in LaCrosse. I gave the home prices for LaCrosse, "as if that had any relevance to anything"... :D

"So, your "analysis" should not be limited to the City of LaCrosse, "

This from the same Media-Mouth who said giving state home value prices was irrelevant! Keep moving those goal-posts MSNBC-DJRESQ! :D

Again, MSNBC-DJRESQ decides what should or should not be limited, what isn't relevant. How? He just does.This is how the media-mindset works...

Like so...

"How is something "easily glossed" by referring to something that is irrelevant to anything?"

MSNBC-DJRESQ keeps calling a relevant point "irrelevant". The Media-Mouth describes, but he doesn't show WHY it is irrelevant.

Father Altman is rich and bought a $290K home. For MSNBC-DJRESQ that's "irrelevant" even when the average annual income of his flock is only $22K a year.

Explain why that's irrelevant, Don't just SAY it. :P Especially when the USCCB encourages priests to live simply.

"What is the average income for the Diocese of LaCrosse?"

MSNBC-DJRESQ raises doubt again. Does he supply facts? That isn't the media's job.

"Another protip to UV: Comparing apples to oranges is useless, and that's exactly what you did."

...because comparing Father Alman's wealth living in Wisconsin is "useless" compared against other people who live in Wisconsin. Again MSNBC-DJRESQ "interprets" what I did hoping the reader will swallow it like everything else.

"You obviously did not even realize the error of your analysis until it was pointed out to you."

He said "obviously" again. In the MSNBC-DJRESQ Drinking Game, that means everyone takes another shot of their fave brew! ...because "obviously" is a way of legitimizing whatever falsehood MSNBC-DJRESQ just told. It describes the falsehood as a given and builds on the lie.

Like so...

"The false reasoning being pointed out, UV had to pivot and then went in the opposite direction, limiting the comparison to only one part of the diocese: the City of LaCrosse."

I provided the home values for the state of Wisconsin because Father Altman lives in Wisconsin.

For MSNBC-DJRESQ that's an "error".

ather Altman's church was in LaCrosse. I provide the home values for Lacrosse.

For MSNBC-DJRESQ that's still an "error". ...because that's how the media works.

"LaCrosse is urban and naturally is going to have homes of lesser value than the rest of the diocese."

There's nothing "naturally" about that. Urban areas often have higher home values. Try buying a home in NYC vs. the rest of NY state.

This is how the media describes their opinions as fact. The following sentence deliberately inverted shows how interchangeable the claim is. ""LaCrosse is urban and naturally is going to have homes of HIGHER value than the rest of the diocese."

"Naturally" is like "obviously". It describes and forms an opinion FOR the reader. Again, MSNBC-DJRESQ is telling people what to think what opinion they should have. This is how the media lies.

"Apparently UV believes diocesan priests all need to live in the ghetto with their elderly parents so they can dodge the gunfire and the drug sales on their way to church."

...and MSNBC-DJRESQ repeats his earlier Black and White Fallacy, trying to make it stick through repetition. It's the same fallacy Ave Crux made. The only alternatives are Father Altman's $290K home and "the gehtto" where "the can dodge the gunfire".

There are no better areas, there are no good working-class neighborhoods that aren't war-zones. There are no condominiums, No. It's either $290K for a one acre property or "the ghetto".

Talk about apples and oragnes.:P

"Protip to UV: Father's house is not a "rich man's house."
Protip to MSNBC-DJRESQ: Father Altman's house costs more than the average in LaCrosse Wisconsin, more than the average in Wisconsin as a whole and it's on a full acre of property. That's a rich man's house.

"It is a middle class home surrounded by other middle class homes. 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2,308 square feet with an unfinished basement."

Zero Evidence Shown. Anyone catch that MSNBC-DJRESQ is telling readers about Father Altman's basement without anything to back it up?

"that would mean a huge percentage of people in Wisconsin live in "rich men's homes"

Zero Evidence Shown Again. Notice all the home-buying data MSNBC-DJRESQ provides backing that 'huge percentage'.

"That would explain the erroneous conclusions."

...and even to the last MSNBC-DJRESQ provides his "interpretation". Things are "obviously, naturally, erroneous, irrelevant, errors" because interpretation not fact is the Media-Mouth forms the reader's opinion.

Better men than you may have written the media's book of dirty tricks, but they're few in number and fairly simple. I'm certain that won't stop you. ;-)
3 more comments from Ultraviolet
Ultraviolet
"1) To anyone reading, yes, you should believe what I have stated about Father's house because it is the truth." @DJRESQ

It's true becaue MSNBC-DJRESQ just told you it's true. Swallow it down, GTV! :P The media never lies to you.

"Protip to UV: If you doubt what I have stated, all you need do is verify it yourself. These are public records. Go ahead and do it."

...and MSNBC-DJRESQ shift…More
"1) To anyone reading, yes, you should believe what I have stated about Father's house because it is the truth." @DJRESQ

It's true becaue MSNBC-DJRESQ just told you it's true. Swallow it down, GTV! :P The media never lies to you.

"Protip to UV: If you doubt what I have stated, all you need do is verify it yourself. These are public records. Go ahead and do it."

...and MSNBC-DJRESQ shifts the burden of proof. You made the claim, you back it up. Otherwise it's worthless. ;-)

"2) UV has absolutely no knowledge as to the source of the funds that Father purchased the house with."

...as if that changes how MUCH funds Father has and how Father SPENDS those funds, eh? Worth noting Father Altman has no desire for transparency on his funding and his spokesman has already said as much.

"Did Father have a savings from his prior law practice? Did his parents give him money towards the purchase? Was the money entirely from his parents?

Does MSNBC-DJRESQ like using rhetorical questions to introduce doubt? You bet! :D

Does MSNBC-DJRESQ have any evidence Father Altman's money comes from the sources he brought up? Nope. The point of the questions is to introduce doubt, to focus attention AWAY from the $600K donated to the Coalition of Cancelle Priests.

"Comparing Father Altman to James Bakker, an adulterer who ended up in prison, is beyond reprehensible. UV should be ashamed, and readers of this site should give no credibility to UV's erroneous ramblings and false equivalencies."

As usual the Lots'a Letters Media tells readers what opinion they should have. This is reprehensible... they should be ashamed... and readers should not do this because the Media Mouth at MSNBC-DJRESQ just told you not to. Obey!

This is how the media fabricates a narrative, and tries to shape public opinion against the facts. MSNBC-DJRESQ's tactics here are a textbook example of them, literally point by point.

"To those reading, ask yourself how UV knows...

To those reading, yes, MSNBC-DJRESQ just told you what you what questions you should ask yourself. He's telling you what to think again. This is what the media does.

Those reading can decide for themselves why this home purchase didn't happen until he went on a nation-wide speaking tour and his Coalition netted over $600k. It's no different than those old time travelling Baptist preachers going from town to town doing and passing the hat at the end of the revival.

" Hallelujah, brothers 'n sisters, be generous cuz Father Altman's doin' th' Lord's work an' he needs a nice house for hisself n' his folks! "

"who supplied the funds, whether those funds came from Father's friends, Father himself, or Father's parents, or whether the parents gave him half the money, et cetera."

...and Father Altman doesn't want people looking too closely.

"As you can see...."

This is another variant of "obviously" as Media Short-Hand for "this is true because I said so"

"To UV: Tell us... We'll wait"

Us? We? MSNBC-DJRESQ is now a plural? No, The Media-Mouth just appointed himself the "voice" for GTV's readers. This is what the media does. This is HOW the media does it:simply by sheer force of will. The media tells readers what to think and now it speaks for them, all without being asked to.

Fact is, Father Altman slammed the door on the media's financial inquiries.

I asked myself why a man so infatuated with public attention would suddenly have no interest in more of it. That's troubling. Father Altman isn't going to let people look over his account books. I can't imagine why. ;-)
Ultraviolet
"UV doesn't even seem to realize that the average income for the City of LaCrosse tells us nothing about the average income of Catholics in the City of LaCrosse."

...because Catholics in the city of LaCrosse aren't part of the city of LaCrosse, amirite? :P

MSNBC-DJRESQ implies the difference is large enough to be significant. No evidence to show WHY. The media introduces questions to create …More
"UV doesn't even seem to realize that the average income for the City of LaCrosse tells us nothing about the average income of Catholics in the City of LaCrosse."

...because Catholics in the city of LaCrosse aren't part of the city of LaCrosse, amirite? :P

MSNBC-DJRESQ implies the difference is large enough to be significant. No evidence to show WHY. The media introduces questions to create doubt but it won't answer its own questions.

"Every Catholic in LaCrosse could be a millionaire, and the statistic of almost $22K on average could still be true."

Could, could, more speculations, more doubts, no evidence supporting either. "could" not "is".

"UV has no knowledge of the numbers and uses false equivalencies."

False? ... now specullation just became another "fact". You haven't shown any false-equivalency. You speculated "could" and then proceeded from there as "false"

What they COULD be and what they ARE aint' the same. If you wish to argue there's a significant difference between the average income for LaCrosse and the Catholics in LaCrosse, YOU need to show it.

"UV, give us... "We will wait on that also."

"Us"... "We"..???. The MSNBC-DJRESQ Media continues speaking as a self-appointed spokes-clown for GTV. Same tactics, endlessly repeated.

"As UV tacitly admitted later, without expressing it... the average home price for the state is a meaningless figure because"

UV didn't admit any such thing. :D "tacitly... without expressing it".

That's MSNBC-DJRESQ for... "UV didn't say this but we're telling you they did." Repeating the "irrelevant" now "meaningless" claim as a matter of course.

This is how the mediia lies, builds on a lie, expands it, improves it and keeps pushing it.
Ultraviolet
"Not sure where UV's data come from, but the information at the link tells quite a different story..."

A link from MSNBC-DJRESQ? I hope I don't faint! :P

My data comes from the US Census Bureau...

La Crosse/Population/Median Income
21,944 USD (2019)

"The point is that the figure cited by UV is another example of the meaningless, and in this case woefully inaccurate,"

The MSNBC-DJRESQ…More
"Not sure where UV's data come from, but the information at the link tells quite a different story..."

A link from MSNBC-DJRESQ? I hope I don't faint! :P

My data comes from the US Census Bureau...

La Crosse/Population/Median Income
21,944 USD (2019)

"The point is that the figure cited by UV is another example of the meaningless, and in this case woefully inaccurate,"

The MSNBC-DJRESQ media tells the reader what opinon they should have.

That figure is also corroborated here:

"The average income of a La Crosse resident is $21,723 a year.

...showing the data isn't "misleading" or "misinformed" and the MSNBC-DJRESQ is trying to tell readers what to think again.
Ultraviolet
Paying cash for a $250k+ home on a one acre lot means he hasn't "tossed aside his worldly comfort" @Ave Crux He could have rented a nice apartment, eh?

Worth noting what you call "attack and sully the reputation of a fine priest" actually was a direct quote from the artcle. As for his worldly security, as his PR spokesman notes, none of his personal finances "are subject to review". So he …More
Paying cash for a $250k+ home on a one acre lot means he hasn't "tossed aside his worldly comfort" @Ave Crux He could have rented a nice apartment, eh?

Worth noting what you call "attack and sully the reputation of a fine priest" actually was a direct quote from the artcle. As for his worldly security, as his PR spokesman notes, none of his personal finances "are subject to review". So he can spend them anyway he wants.

I put "vow of poverty" in quotes for a reason. That's how facetious quotes work, silly. You weren't supposed to take it literally.

"1) leaving a lucrative legal career..."
Turns out he's found a far more lucrative career where all he has to do is run his mouth and disaffected Catholics throw money at him in huge-o-lah amounts.

"2) sacrificing his own assured well-being, future retirement, and material stability"
You don't know anything about his finances so your claim is baseless. Obviously Fr. Altman has managed to monetize his mouth and that's going to remain an on-going source of revenue. He seems crafty enough to start investing it, too.

"3) whose parents need his care in their shared home..."
See my last point. You don't know zip about their financial circumstances and Fr. Altman's spokesman was just as cagey about it as he was for Fr. Altman. With the kind of money Fr. Altman has under his personal discretion, you can depend on his family being well cared for before he spends so much as a penny of his "Cancelled Priests" funding on, you know, cancelled priests. :P

4) who is a Priest who already donated large sums of money to other Priests Large sums, as a percentage of WHAT total income? That's the lesson Christ taught with the Widow's mite. $5 dollars from a man who makes $500 a month means a lot more than $50 from a man who makes $5000, even if $50 is a larger sum.

May all GTV readers disregard the sad attack ... consisting of direct quotes from the article. What you call a "sad attack" is simply a reminder of, yet another, truth you'd like to forget.

You know what really, really sickens me about you personally, @Ave Crux ?

If Fruity Father James Martin SJ bought himself a big fancy house on a huge plot of land with "gay Catholic" money, you'd be all over him for abandoning his vow of poverty and being a worldly, self-indulgent corrupt mockery of a priest.

That's how you hypocrites always work. It isn't the act that bothers you, ever. It's who does it.
DJRESQ
"If Fruity Father James Martin SJ bought himself a big fancy house..."

Here you go making the same mistake, but this time it's in the opposite direction.

The SJ you just mentioned above actually did take a vow of poverty, so it would be right to point out the act. It isn't right to claim the same about Father Altman. He never took a vow of poverty, although it was obvious from your initial …More
"If Fruity Father James Martin SJ bought himself a big fancy house..."

Here you go making the same mistake, but this time it's in the opposite direction.

The SJ you just mentioned above actually did take a vow of poverty, so it would be right to point out the act. It isn't right to claim the same about Father Altman. He never took a vow of poverty, although it was obvious from your initial post that you though he did, your later "explanation" notwithstanding.

I doubt whether many people here buy the explanation. They certainly shouldn't. You got caught in an ignorant statement, we can all see that, but you're not able to admit it.

The house that Father Altman bought is indeed a very nice home. The one acre lot is normal for the area, as is evident by the other homes in the subdivision. But it's a normal middle class home.
DJRESQ
Correction: "that you thought..."
Ultraviolet
@DJRESQ You chose to read a comment presented in what are formally known as "scare quotes" and labelled accordingly, literally. That's your mistake. Unless it wasn't a mistake at all and you did so deliberately.

If so, then it's just outright dishonesty so you could build a false argument. Sadly, I'm just a seer and not a psychic so that's between you and The Almighty.

"Here you go makin…More
@DJRESQ You chose to read a comment presented in what are formally known as "scare quotes" and labelled accordingly, literally. That's your mistake. Unless it wasn't a mistake at all and you did so deliberately.

If so, then it's just outright dishonesty so you could build a false argument. Sadly, I'm just a seer and not a psychic so that's between you and The Almighty.

"Here you go making the same mistake, but this time it's in the opposite direction."

It isn't a mistake to point out a double-standard in criticism (not poverty) and I'm not making "the same mistake" because I didn't make that one in the first place.

"although it was obvious from your initial post that you though he did, your later "explanation" notwithstanding.

It's obvious you're not a mind-reader so you don't know what I "thought", Got that? ;-) What is clear, is YOU are the one covering YOUR mistake.

My explanation is true and you have not shown it to be false. Don't attribute your illiteracy, deliberate or otherwise, to any imagined bad-faith or untruth on my part.

Speaking of mistakes, I didn't make an "initial post" I made an inital comment. This isn't my post or your post. That's second example of your illiteracy, and it corroborates the first one you made.

See? What you "think" just keeps getting contradicted by what's in print. :D

"I doubt whether many people here buy the explanation."

Have you interviewed "many people here'? No you haven't. So your doubt, like your claim, is baseless. It's nice to watch you trying to control the narrative, but sorry, I'm not going to allow you to do that either. ;-)

"You got caught in an ignorant statement"

Wrong. You got caught not knowing how "scare quotes" work. They show irony or facetiousness and they were very clearly used to do so. You messed up, bunky. :D This is on you, and all your finger-wagging at me isn't going to change it..

.The only person caught being ignorant is you. More correctly, you and Ave Crux both. But what else is new for Ave, eh?

"we can all see that, but you're not able to admit it."

You don't speak for GTV and you don't speak for what "we all can see".

GTV's readership hasn't appointed YOU it's official spokes-clown, so don't assume everyone is as illiterate as yourself.

...unnless you're GTV's Self-Appointed Official Spokes-Clown. Even then, all you speak for are other clowns, not GTV's more serious and sensible readership.

What's undeniable based on my original facetious use of "vow of poverty" in quotes is YOU chose to take it literally for one of two reasons.

1.) You're ignorant of "quotes" being used to indicated irony or facetiousness or... just as likely...

2.) You're a liar who did so on purpose to fabricate "an ignorant comment" where none exists.

Your speculations don''t change what's in print and I don't back-edit my comments.

You screwed up, my man. You and Ave Crux both. --and it isn't going to go away,

"The house that Father Altman bought is indeed a very nice home. The one acre lot is normal for the area, as is evident by the other homes in the subdivision."

Indeed. It IS "very nice". It may be normal "for the area" doesn't change the fact it's a rich-man's home. All you've shown is he bought a rich-man's home in a rich-man's neighborhood.

The USCCB states priest are expected to "lead a life of simplicity consonant with the people they serve."

Is Father Altman "serving" the fat-cat wealthy who in today's economy casually pay cash, no mortgage, for a $290k home on one-acre lots?

What a luxurious "life of simplicity" this priest leads. A pity he doesn't count Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos in his flock, then his apologists could argue a billionaire's mansion on a few hundred acres is entirely reasonable.

"But it's a normal middle class home."

Wrong. It's well above the average home value in Wisconsin.

...and most people don't buy a house without a mortgage. The rich are getting richer but they haven't gotten THAT rich. Not yet, not like the good Father.

You fail at realty the way you fail at literacy. Anything else or are you all done? ;-)
DJRESQ
You should stop while you're ahead or, in your case, behind.

You made an ignorant statement because you thought diocesan priests took vows of poverty. That much is obvious, because there is no reason to bring up a vow of poverty in regard to a diocesan priest.

Protip: Diocesan priests don't take vows of poverty.

Then when your ignorance was shown, you obviously had to backtrack in order to …More
You should stop while you're ahead or, in your case, behind.

You made an ignorant statement because you thought diocesan priests took vows of poverty. That much is obvious, because there is no reason to bring up a vow of poverty in regard to a diocesan priest.

Protip: Diocesan priests don't take vows of poverty.

Then when your ignorance was shown, you obviously had to backtrack in order to save face instead of admitting you were wrong.

Your credibility is shot, and everyone who reads this thread knows it, as is obvious from the comments.

The home Father bought, which I researched, as I have the tools to do so, is a nice home, but it is a normal middle class home. It is surrounded by a subdivision of normal middle class homes. It is on an acre due to the configuration of the streets that surround the area where he lives. A large portion of the acre is just woods.

You obviously didn't read the information at the link you provided. It doesn't say anything about the "average" price of real estate in WI, nor does your "analysis" take into account any differences.

Father has been ordered to stay within his diocese.

What is your "analysis" of the average home price within his diocese? The fact that you didn't even consider such a thing shows an inability to reason and make proper distinctions.

So, tell us: What is the average home price in the Diocese of LaCrosse? What the average price is, in the entire state, is irrelevant.
Ultraviolet
In your case, you should quit when you are a behind. :D Repeating your last lie won't make it true. Argumentum ad Nauseam, bunky.

"You made an ignorant statement because you thought..."

DRESQ, GTV's Self Appointed Official Mind-Reader taps the Great Beyond... :D Yeah, no.

"That much is obvious, because..." "Then when your ignorance was shown, you obviously...

Using "obvious" doesn't …More
In your case, you should quit when you are a behind. :D Repeating your last lie won't make it true. Argumentum ad Nauseam, bunky.

"You made an ignorant statement because you thought..."

DRESQ, GTV's Self Appointed Official Mind-Reader taps the Great Beyond... :D Yeah, no.

"That much is obvious, because..." "Then when your ignorance was shown, you obviously...

Using "obvious" doesn't magically make your fantasies or your falshoods correct, dummy. . I put "vow of poverty" in facetious "scare quotes" for a reason. You "obviously" choose to ignore that because your argument evaporates at that point..

You can repeat your lies all you please. Taht change what I wrote, how I wrote it or why I did so.

It's obvious' you're going to keep pushing your garbage no matter how many times I correct it. Fine. I'll scrub and flush as needed. You can say it and you can repeat it but you can't prove it because you're full of it. :D

"Your credibility is shot, and everyone who reads this thread knows it, as is obvious from the comments."

You don't know how "quotations" work. Simple as that. It's also "obvious" you're fabricating consensus out of thin air.

Everyone who reads this thread knows it" ---because YOU personally interviewd "everyone who reads this thread" and you have proof of what they know, yes? Or are you relying on moar of your psychic mind-reading powers? :P

Truth is, you're still making this up as you go along. Like every other bogus-psychic you're a liar and a scam-artist. Protip: Fallacy of Composition on "everyone who reads this thread knows it, as is obvious from the comments". Not "everyone who reads this" comments here, dummy. :P

Your literacy fails as badly as your logic. ;-)

"The home Father bought, which I researched, as I have the tools to do so, is a nice home, but it is a normal middle class home."

Zero evidence supplied. Just your big mouth. Again. Your tools are as likely as you psychic powers. :P

Take your two-bit talk-show psychic routine somewhere else. Try selling a home with your imaginary realty "tools" as well. Between the both of them and you might be able to buy a McMagic Meal without having to beg for change on the stree-corner.

"It doesn't say anything about the "average" price of real estate in WI,"

Direct quote from Zillow :"The typical home value of homes in Wisconsin is $236,551. This value is seasonally adjusted and only includes the middle price tier of homes."

Typical is synonymous with average. You're going to have to WORK at misleading GTV's readers.

"The fact that you didn't even consider such a thing shows an inability to reason and make proper distinctions."

Assumption on your part. Either that, or more of your mind-reading since you magically "know" what I considered. . I was, in fact, being charitable.

"So, tell us: What is the average home price in the Diocese of LaCrosse?"

Us? Are you speaking formally as GTV's Self-Appointed Spokes-Clown? Or just yourself?

Why haven't you supplied that info? You have the "tools to do so", remember?
Funny thing about that. I think I know... Your tools are as worthless as everything else that you've typed here.

Since you asked, and I gave you "the tools" you tool, "The typical home value of homes in La Crosse is $201,886"

All you've done is make Father Altman look even better off than he already did before. Now he bought a home that's roughly $90k over the average.

You should have quit while you were further behind than you are now. :D
DJRESQ
"Since you asked, and I gave you "the tools" you tool, "The typical home value of homes in La Crosse is $201,886."

As far as giving evidence of where Father lives, I'm not going to divulge that information publicly except to say that he doesn't live in LaCrosse. He is entitled to his privacy.

However, I know a) the city he lives in, b) the county he lives in, c) the address of the street he …More
"Since you asked, and I gave you "the tools" you tool, "The typical home value of homes in La Crosse is $201,886."

As far as giving evidence of where Father lives, I'm not going to divulge that information publicly except to say that he doesn't live in LaCrosse. He is entitled to his privacy.

However, I know a) the city he lives in, b) the county he lives in, c) the address of the street he lives on, d) the exact date of purchase, and e) I know exactly what the inside of his house looks like (with the prior owners' furniture) because there are 54 photos of the house and yard available to those who know how to find it.

The people at the Pillar obviously know how to find it; I imagine that's because they also are attorneys. It's not difficult when you do such a thing for a living.

As I stated prior, it's a very nice home, but it's a normal middle class home, surrounded by other normal middle class homes. The one acre that you seem to be so worried about is a result of the configuration of the streets in relation to the rest of the neighborhood. It is mostly woods.

Re LaCrosse, you realize, do you not, that urban areas can be, shall we say, less than safe for the elderly? Should Father live in a ghetto and put his parents at risk merely to satisfy you?

It stands to reason that values of real estate for the City of LaCrosse would be lower than averages outside the city, but you knew that, didn't you?

Unless you were going around with Father touring houses, what do you know about the houses he was looking at? What were the prices and the conditions?

It's obvious you didn't even realize that your original comparison of the entire state was a meaningless thing until it was pointed out to you. Otherwise, why would have you mentioned it? It's irrelevant, just like the "vow of poverty" is irrelevant, and you didn't even realize that, did you?

That is how a person can tell that you're being disingenuous when you constantly backtrack. When an error is pointed out, you have to scurry and reverse gears, just like on this point.

If you knew that the average home price for the state is irrelevant, why did you even bring it up?

And you misread your "tool": "This value is seasonally adjusted and only includes the middle price tier of homes."

Finally, for others who are reading this, here is the takeaway:

1. Contrary to what UV stated "in scare quotes," diocesan priests don't take a vow of poverty. For a person to even bring it up when it has absolutely no application to Father Altman demonstrates that that person actually does believe that priests take a vow of poverty.

And when that is pointed out to that person, and that person realizes the error and does not admit it, speaks volumes.

2. Mentioning the average price of a home for a state, when that fact is totally irrelevant to the point, demonstrates that a person is either wilfully trying to mislead others (I don't think UV did that) or is ignorant of the fact that the assertion is irrelevant.

The second prong is what happened here, and, yes, it is obvious, because UV then comes up with the home prices for the City of LaCrosse. Whenever UV's errors are pointed out, there is a redo.

May God grant Father Altman and his family many years.
Ultraviolet
Your description of the discussion isn't the discussion itself. That's "The Take-Away."

That's the lie you've built every one of your replies around. It's the lie all the Lots'a Letters Media networks use. DJRESQ is no different than MSNBC, CNN, TMZ, ETC. Your description of what I said isn't what I said. Your biased interpretation of what I said isn't fact.

That's your "narrative" so …More
Your description of the discussion isn't the discussion itself. That's "The Take-Away."

That's the lie you've built every one of your replies around. It's the lie all the Lots'a Letters Media networks use. DJRESQ is no different than MSNBC, CNN, TMZ, ETC. Your description of what I said isn't what I said. Your biased interpretation of what I said isn't fact.

That's your "narrative" so GTV readers won't look at the details. Like the other long lines of letter-liars in the media, you appeal to laziness, counting on "The Takeway" to conceal all facts showing differently.

"As far as giving evidence of where Father lives, I'm not going to divulge that information publicly except to say that he doesn't live in LaCrosse. He is entitled to his privacy."

That makes your claim a Fallacy of Anecdotal Evidence, MSNBC-DJRESQ. You're making utterly unsupported and by your own admission, in this context, unsupportable claims. Like the "Lots'a Letters Media" you always cite "privacy" and "confidential sources" when you decide to simply start making things up.

"However, I know a.) b.) c.) d.) e.) ..."

...and the DJRESQ BS-Media Mobile keeps rollin' right on down Anecdotal Fallacy Boulevard.

"I imagine that's because they also are attorneys. It's not difficult when you do such a thing for a living."

Rolling on... Is MSNBC-RESQ a media writer? A lawyer? A media-lawyer? A liar? Or all of the above? They aren't mutually exclusive. :D

"As I stated prior, it's a very nice home,"

MSNBC-DJRESQ's BS-Media Mobile is giving GTV the scenic tour. It's a very nice home because the Media- Mouth just said so. Hopefully so for $290,000.

"it's a normal middle class home, surrounded by other normal middle class homes."

LOVE all the realty data defining "normal". More of MSNBC-DJRESQ's narrative. How does the reader know it's "normal"?

MSNBC-DJRESQ just told you it is.. Take his word for it. No fact, no evidence. Just take it.

"The one acre that you seem to be so worried about... It is mostly woods."

...and take it again because MSNBC-DJRESQ just wrote "it's mostly woods".

Who needs proof? The Media-Mouth Has Spoken. Amen :P

Taking your BS at face value, you've just shown it's a desirable property because of those woods. Whoops.

"Should Father live in a ghetto and put his parents at risk merely to satisfy you?"

Fallacy of a False Dilemma. --because a $290,000 home and "a ghetto" are the only two alternatives available.

"It stands to reason that values of real estate for the City of LaCrosse would be lower than averages outside the city, but you knew that, didn't you?"

Please don't use the word "reason" when your comment thus far has been a long string of fallacies.

It doesn't "stand to reason" at all. Many other factors influence home prices.

Rural areas sometimes have lower real-estate values because they're miles from the services and amenities found in the city. A nice home in the country isn't quite so nice when there's an hour's trip one-way for even the more mundane things like shopping and "going out for dinner"

Sometimes they have higher averages when located close to major highways that make travel easy. Other factors like school quality and other externals (such as water quality) can also alter the prices. sometimes a little , sometimes a lot.

"Unless you were going around with Father touring houses, what do you know about the houses he was looking at? What were the prices and the conditions?"

...the BS-Media Mobile stops at the Black and White Fallacy cross-walk.

You assume Father's only options were homes. Condos? Nah. The huge range of apartments? Who cares? Keep the narrative focused, Can't have those pesky readers thinking for themselves. :D

With Father Altman's kind of money, he's going for the best of the best, and that's the point.

"It's obvious you didn't even realize that your original comparison of the entire state was a meaningless thing until it was pointed out to you."

Special Note. From now on, every time MSNBC-DJRESQ writes the word "obvious" or "obviously" knock back a shot of your fave 21+ beverage. . :D

State home values aren't a meaningless thing at all and your "obviously" doesn't change that. They give a fair approximation of the housing market. Especially now that you've introduced doubt where Father Altman lives.

"It's irrelevant, just like the "vow of poverty" is irrelevant, and you didn't even realize that, did you?"

See how that works, everyone? It's "irrelevant" because The Media-Mouth just told you it's irrelevant. Not why it's irrelevant, just that it IS irrelevant.

...This is how MSNBC-DJRESQ lies to you. There's nothing irrelevant about a priest buying a $290K home when his "flock" is making roughly $22K a year, at best.

That's where his "vow of poverty" (as per the USCCB) goes belly up faster than the MSNBC-DJRESQ narrative does.

"That is how a person can tell that you're being disingenuous when you constantly backtrack."

Did everyone catch that? II's a "backtrack" because MSNBC-DJRESQ just said so.

A correction isn't a "backtrack" Neither is a clarification. -except in the MSNBC-DJRESQ narrative..

By describing what I say, MSNBC-DJRESQ doesn't answer it or disprove it. Yet, like the media, he tries to create an opinion.

...and here we go again, Perfect example of the "description" tactic .

"When an error is pointed out, you have to scurry and reverse gears, just like on this point."

MSNBC-DJRESQ keeps calling things "an error" because that's a standard propaganda tactic: lie and keep repeating the lie as if it were a proven fact. ,

For example "Scare quotes".. You just chose to ignore them to fit "the narrative".

That isn't "an error", that's your error, the kind called "a lie".

It's one you can't and won't acknowledge. Your interpretation isn't a fact. Your interpretation is contradicted by the facts.

"If you knew that the average home price for the state is irrelevant, why did you even bring it up?"

...except I didn't claim it was irrelevant because it isn't irrelevant. That's YOUR claim, and it's still wrong.

You're just playing moar Media-Mouth games.
1.) tell a lie
"the average home price for the state is irrelevant,"
2.) proceed from that lie as if it were an agreed upon fact
"if you knew that..."
3.) demand something else based on your opponent accepting the lie as fact
"why did you even bring it up?"

All from the rotten little kernel in 1.) It's an old trick and you're not clever enough to put a new spin on it.

If anything, given your latest claims about where Father Altman lives, it's more relevant now then ever before.

You have shown no evidence you know where Father Altman lives. But you've called the issue into question.

At this point state values are the best approximation since that's (thanks to you) a certainty about his location.

"Finally, for others who are reading this, here is the takeaway:"

Don't read both sides! Don't think for yourself! Read The MSNBC-DJRESQ Takeway!

Man... I really nailed you. Pure MSNBC. How you can live with yourselves is breath-taking. Biden's bad enough as a "catholic" but your kind? Wow.

1.) Contrary to what UV stated "in scare quotes,"

...and scare quotes show that the statement wasn't factual. MSNBC-RESQ repeats a lie. At this point it isn't even illiteracy. It's a deliberate falsehood.

When has the Lots'a Letters Media ever stopped at slander or libel, eh?

"For a person to even bring it up when it has absolutely no application to Father Altman..."

...except Father Altman's wealth and how he spends it on himself is entirely relevant when his flock is poor.

Father Altman doesn't care for his bishop any more than he does his "flock" or the USCCB exhorting priests to "lead a life of simplicity consonant with the people they serve."

...all in a state where the average income of his flock is just under $22K.

"demonstrates that that person actually does believe that priests take a vow of poverty."

MSNBC-DJRESQ again tries to tell readers what to think, only now about what I think. The proof? His interpetaton as, wait for it, "proof" for his next interpretation. This is how the media lies.

It's contradicted by the scare-quotes themselves, AND a style manual explaining their usage. But MSNBC-DJRESQ is the "best" judge (more scare-quotes) because that's what the media truly does: it judges first and reports based on that judgement.

People might be donating to the Coalition for Canceled Priests but there's zero transparency on Father's part. Where did this sudden mysterious windfall of $290K come from? Only God, Father Altman, his spokesman, his asset-manager, his attorneys, and his accounts know for sure. :D

"And when that is pointed out to that person, and that person realizes the error and does not admit it, speaks volumes."

Notice how MSNBC-DJRESQ interprets what I think while telling the reader what to think about it.

There isn't any "error" for me to "realize" -except in the Media-Mouth narrative.

What speaks volume is your willingness to lie and keep repeating that lie boldy and confidently no matter how many times it's refuted.

It doesn't matter if you're an attorney or in the media. Both professions are built around misleading an audience and shaping their opinions outside the facts.

You know what you're doing, I know what you're doing, and I'm going to make darn sure everyone you're lying to on GTV know what you're doing also.

Either way, you're a fine credit to the worst cockroaches of your profession.

"2. Mentioning the average price of a home for a state, when that fact is totally irrelevant to the point"

It's "irrelevant" because MSNBC-DJRESQ just said so. :D

.Why is it irrelevant since the location of Fr. Altman's home isn't disclosed? Don't ask that. MSNBC-DJRESQ will tell you what to think. All you have to do is let him.

If Father Altman doesn't live in Lacrosse as YOU claim...well now... ;-)

Then, the state average home prices are the best estimate the public has. Surely we can pin Father down to the entire state, eh? :P

" demonstrates that a person is either wilfully trying to mislead others (I don't think UV did that) or is ignorant of the fact that the assertion is irrelevant."

How charitable. :-) Again,Lots'a Letter Media decides what's "irrelevant" not the reader. All the reader has to do is swallow it.

Suck it down, GTV. Hold your noses and suck it down DJRESQ like a stale oyster.

Well, I'm not quite so charitable.I think you undeniably are trying to mislead others just the way the media and legal professions do every day as a matter of course.

When you keep describing "scare quotes" as in "ignorant error" no matter how many times I correct it, That isn't ignorance.

That's falsehood and intent, two of the criteria for provinng libel in court. Got that, counselor? ;-)

"The second prong is what happened here, and, yes, it is obvious,"

MSNBC-DJRESQ wrote word "obviouis" again. Everyone stop, knock back another shot :D

"obvious" is Media-Mouth for, "accept my description and don't fact-check it. Don't you dare."

"UV then comes up with the home prices for the City of LaCrosse. Whenever UV's errors are pointed out, there is a redo."

MSNBC-DJRESQ's narrative shaping continues. Watch how interpretation replaces fact.

UV corrects an error? That's a "backtrack"

UV addresses critic's point (which makes Father Altman look even worse)? That's a "redo".

UV presents data disproving the critic? "that fact is totally irrelevant to the point"

...all because MSNBC-DJRESQ said so. "Why" is the one letter GTV readers won't find in that long string of letters. It isn't needed only the "B" and the "S".with a godless willingness to repeat them over and over, contradictions of truth be damned

A kind prayer for Father Altman's long life, no matter where he lives, With the money rolling in now he can afford the very best of medical care for himself.

Those in his flock living on $22K a year need those prayers more.
Ave Crux
It is terribly sad that persons on this thread would attack and sully the reputation of a fine Priest thrown out on the street for his fidelity to the truth and to us -- a Diocesan Priest who is not even bound by a Vow of Poverty -- a Priest who has clearly already tossed his worldly comfort and security aside to faithfully serve God in the Priesthood by:

1) leaving a lucrative legal career …More
It is terribly sad that persons on this thread would attack and sully the reputation of a fine Priest thrown out on the street for his fidelity to the truth and to us -- a Diocesan Priest who is not even bound by a Vow of Poverty -- a Priest who has clearly already tossed his worldly comfort and security aside to faithfully serve God in the Priesthood by:

1) leaving a lucrative legal career to enter the Priesthood in order to supply for our spiritual poverty (herein evident in some comments below)

2) sacrificing his own assured well-being, future retirement, and material stability by faithfully witnessing to the truth when others remain silent to protect the very things this Priest sacrificed, and

3) whose parents need his care in their shared home, and whose parents also likely funded or at least subsidized the purchase of the house from their own assets to begin with, and

4) who is a Priest who already donated large sums of money to other Priests in need from the financial support many sent him upon his expulsion from his parish for not remaining silent when he was bound before God to speak.

May all GTV readers disregard the sad attack made on the good reputation of this courageous, generous-hearted Priest who loves his sheep more than himself and his own well-being.
laurelmarycecilia
FYI Fr Altman cares for his aged, somewhat disabled parents. Checking the details before casting a self-righteous stone is usually a good idea. (see below)
salliperson
God bless Father Altman and keep him safe from the wolves.
Ultraviolet
"The priest purchased a Wisconsin home, situated on an acre-sized lot, last month. Altman bought the 3-bedroom house for $290,000, $21,000 more than its listed asking price.According to state records, the house was bought without a mortgage, indicating an all-cash purchase."

Yeah, that's some serious "vow of poverty" he's showing there. An apartment or even a condo wasn't good enough for …More
"The priest purchased a Wisconsin home, situated on an acre-sized lot, last month. Altman bought the 3-bedroom house for $290,000, $21,000 more than its listed asking price.According to state records, the house was bought without a mortgage, indicating an all-cash purchase."

Yeah, that's some serious "vow of poverty" he's showing there. An apartment or even a condo wasn't good enough for this guy. To think how we Catholics laughed and sneered at that Protestant con-artist Jim Baker back in the 80s.
DJRESQ
Father Altman is a diocesan priest. Diocesan priests don't take vows of poverty.

According to the article, he lives with his two elderly parents and takes care of them, which would explain why he would not want to move into an apartment.

A $290K 3 bedroom house on one acre in southwestern Wisconsin sounds pretty middle class.

He is a late vocation, and prior to ordination, he was a successful …More
Father Altman is a diocesan priest. Diocesan priests don't take vows of poverty.

According to the article, he lives with his two elderly parents and takes care of them, which would explain why he would not want to move into an apartment.

A $290K 3 bedroom house on one acre in southwestern Wisconsin sounds pretty middle class.

He is a late vocation, and prior to ordination, he was a successful attorney for a number of years.
chris griffin
Father Altman is a hero despite people who say ignorant things.
Ultraviolet
@DJRESQ You're making the same mistake Ave Crux made. I put "vow of poverty" in quotes for a reason. They're facetious-quotes. Same as if I said , say, DJREQ is a "perceptive" reader who understands sarcasm.

You weren't supposed to take it literally. Protip: obviously you haven't seen what some "apartments" are like today. We'll ignore all the luxury condos on the market. I'll be fascinated …More
@DJRESQ You're making the same mistake Ave Crux made. I put "vow of poverty" in quotes for a reason. They're facetious-quotes. Same as if I said , say, DJREQ is a "perceptive" reader who understands sarcasm.

You weren't supposed to take it literally. Protip: obviously you haven't seen what some "apartments" are like today. We'll ignore all the luxury condos on the market. I'll be fascinated what excuse you come up with to explain why a modest "family of three" needs a full acre of property. Where I'm living, families of 4-6 members do very well on 1/3 -1/4 acre lots.

I wouldn't remind people the man was an attorney, either. :D

@chris griffin
"Father Altman is a hero despite people who say ignorant things."
..in his defense. :D
DJRESQ
"I put 'vow of poverty' in quotes for a reason. That's how facetious quotes work, silly. You weren't supposed to take it literally."

Why would you even bring up the idea of a "vow of poverty" about someone when such a concept doesn't even apply to him?

Personally, I don't buy your explanation. I believe you got caught making an ignorant statement and you're now trying to backtrack, and everyone…More
"I put 'vow of poverty' in quotes for a reason. That's how facetious quotes work, silly. You weren't supposed to take it literally."

Why would you even bring up the idea of a "vow of poverty" about someone when such a concept doesn't even apply to him?

Personally, I don't buy your explanation. I believe you got caught making an ignorant statement and you're now trying to backtrack, and everyone can see it.
Ultraviolet
"Why would you even bring up the idea of a "vow of poverty" about someone when such a concept doesn't even apply to him?"

Because the USCCB states, diocesan priests are expected to "lead a life of simplicity consonant with the people they serve."

Unless Father Altman is "serving" rich people who pay cash, no mortgage, for a $290k home on one-acre lots, in today's economy then his notions of "…More
"Why would you even bring up the idea of a "vow of poverty" about someone when such a concept doesn't even apply to him?"

Because the USCCB states, diocesan priests are expected to "lead a life of simplicity consonant with the people they serve."

Unless Father Altman is "serving" rich people who pay cash, no mortgage, for a $290k home on one-acre lots, in today's economy then his notions of "simplicity" are a skewed as his understanding of obeying his Bishop.

"Personally, I don't buy your explanation. I believe you got caught making an ignorant statement"

I believe you're a liar who's bodly fabricating a "mistake" out of thin air where none exists in direct contradiction to what I wrote using "scare quotes" as they're supposed to be used.

"and everyone can see it."

...because you've interviewed "everyone", yes? Again, you're manufacturing a consensus just as you manufactured an error. I'll give you that much when you lie, at least you lie boldly.

Protip: trying to argue factual validity from a (self-created) consensus what "everyone can see" is a Bandwagon Fallacy. Just so you know. :D
DJRESQ
"Because the USCCB states, diocesan priests are expected to "lead a life of simplicity consonant with the people they serve."

That says nothing about a "vow of poverty." If you don't think the people on this thread agree with me, why don't you ask them?
Ultraviolet
"That says nothing about a "vow of poverty."

Father Altman's flock are making $22K a year on averge. No $290k homes.

"If you don't think the people on this thread agree with me, why don't you ask them?"

Popularity contest as band-wagon fallacy. "the people on this thread agree with me" ...and they all voted for Joe Biden, isn't that right MSNBC-DJRESQ?
Hugh N. Cry
God bless Fr. Altman.