Pope, in book, says homosexuality incompatible with priesthood

Different times call for different solutions.

Yea, that's what the pro-aborts and homos say.

That's a completely illogical comparison and a classic example of the Strawman Fallacy.
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Bottom line...with all the mess in the church, no Pope, no human, is going to change a thing.

That's your bottom line. The fact is that married converts from other denominations are becoming Catholic Priests and it's working.

You don't like it?

Too bad.

Get over yourself. You don't make the rules.
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But all this is happening for a reason and God is allowing it.

Is the homo underground in the Catholic Church a part of God's active will or His permissive will?

The permissive will of God refers to that which God allows to happen. For example, God allows sinful behavior, even though He does not desire it.

It would be blasphemous to believe that God's active will is responsible for the homosexual network within the Church. Therefore, it his passive will which permits it.

Ora et Labora.

How and when the homo network will be dismantled is dependent on a courageous orthodox clergy with strong leadership in Rome. That currently is not the case and has not been the case for decades.

Different times call for different solutions.

Yea, that's what the pro-aborts and homos say.

Bottom line...with all the mess in the church, no Pope, no human, is going to change a thing. Too late..you can go round and round and you'll end up in the same place, scratching your 'whatever.'
We can say this and that about this pope and that pope, they should have done this or they should have handled it this way....and it may be true. But all this is happening for a reason and God is allowing it. Doesn't mean we all sit back and not have a say in anything, of course Not!
We are where we are at this point and time. We will suffer a white martyrdom, we can see that. Trust in God and Pray. And never stop defending the Faith.

Different times call for different solutions. These are desperate times calling for desperate solutions. The ideal is one thing while the practical, at least in these times and in this case, is something different.

BXVI's solution seems to be to simply re-state the rule and then sit back and wait for the order to be executed by a subversively unwilling executive body.

Clearly, that can't work. It can't work because the entrenched Lavender Mafia won't let it work.

So, if the currently entrenched interests will not exclude all homosexuals from the ranks of the clergy, then it's quite obvious that these same ranks must be purged. IOW, the Lavender Mafia will not reform the Church by purging themselves from all positions of power in the Church. How to purge them?

It's not a terribly nice example, but it illustrates the problem. BXVI can repeat the order to bar gays from ordination until he's blue in the face, but the order won't be implemented until he replaces those responsible for implementing it.

This is what the Church will have to do if it wants to thrive - i.e. remove every homosexual, whether active or not, from the ranks of the clergy, and replace them with heterosexual men.

The only way to do that is to end priestly celibacy.

For I would that all men were even as myself: but every one hath his proper gift from God; one after this manner, and another after that.
But I say to the unmarried, and to the widows: it is good for them if they so continue, even as I. (1Cor 7: 7-8)

But I would have you be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitious for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God.
But he that is with a wife, is solicitious for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided. (1Cor 7: 32,33)

God and Only God, has the answer to change this corrupt and evil world. I believe only HE can do so.

We are no longer living in Apostolic times and it is unreasonable and unfair to their families to think married men would/should leave their wives and children to be a priest or to be anything else for that matter.

Until there is a better solution, I would prefer having one married priest with a family, a part time dental practice who painted houses on the weekends, rather than 10 homos swishing and lisping their way during mass while wearing rainbow colored vestments.

We have a few Eastern rites near us. I have attended the Byzantine Liturgy and sometimes go for Lenten dinner at some of the Eastern Orthodox Churches. The priests are with their families at times and you can't help but wonder how they can be expected to shepherd the people when their own families will Always come first. One priest who is married is also a part-time dentist. Now, how can he attend to God's people when he holds a job outside his church and tend to the needs of wife and children..as opposed to priests who are celibate? They can't...yes, we know about what's in our churches, the homos, etc. But I believe, allowing priests to marry is Not the answer. The Apostles left their families and followed Christ.

It's not "rubbish." Eastern Rite Catholics are as much Catholic as you are.

I would be for any plan (short of women priests) to get rid of the homos that have plagued the Catholic Church for decades. ($3 BILLION in money damages to say nothing of the loss of moral authority and respectability around the world)

This cancer has spread even to the highest offices of the episcopacy including cardinals and it is still occurring. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

The Roman discipline of a celibate clergy is of Apostolic origin - to change it would be to make things worse in the long run.

Mere speculation with no evidence to prove it. A married clergy works for the Greek Orthodox and Eastern Rite Catholics and, as of recently, even among Catholic converts who were married ministers in other denominations and are now married priests.

But, there is more to ending celibacy than merely to have a larger pool of potential priests. It is a means to squash the homo influence that exists throughout the Catholic Church even at the highest levels.
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From the 1st comment:

BXVI's solution seems to be to simply re-state the rule and then sit back and wait for the order to be executed by a subversively unwilling executive body.

Clearly, that can't work. It can't work because the entrenched Lavender Mafia won't let it work.

So, if the currently entrenched interests will not exclude all homosexuals from the ranks of the clergy, then it's quite obvious that these same ranks must be purged. IOW, the Lavender Mafia will not reform the Church by purging themselves from all positions of power in the Church. How to purge them?

It's not a terribly nice example, but it illustrates the problem. BXVI can repeat the order to bar gays from ordination until he's blue in the face, but the order won't be implemented until he replaces this responsible for implementing it.

This is what the Church will have to do if it wants to survive - i.e. remove every homosexual, whether active or not, from the ranks of the clergy, and replace them with heterosexual men.
The only way to do that is to end priestly celibacy.

Everyone should read, "Goodbye Good Men" by Michael Rose, if they haven't......Some of the priests who spoke to Mr. Rose of the corruption did so only if they were not identified by name, fearing retaliation by the homosexuals and feminists in authority even today. Some agreed to be identified. Others who never gained acceptance into a seminary, or who gave up their vocation with their faith nearly destroyed by the corruption within the seminary, still felt shame over their 'failure', and many were still trying to cope with family members who felt ashamed.....not understanding, and sometimes not believing what they were told. One man who was literally driven from the seminary by homosexuals says: "I never told my parents nor later my wife that this was the 'real' reason for my leaving," he said. "They would have been scandalized." .........Those who stayed, and made it through to ordination despite harassment report that: "Seminarians who accept the Church's teachings on sexual morality have not only been dismissed from a seminary as 'troublemakers,' they have also been threatened by classmates and faculty, especially in religious houses, that if they did not submit to homosexuality -- to espouse and defend homosexual acts, if not take part in them -- their priestly careers would be in jeopardy." Indeed, older gay seminarians whose sexual advances were rejected by younger men (who were expelled because of their 'homophobia') went on to be ordained, and are working today in American parishes.....but this problem exists all over, not just in America.

The problem with vocations is complex; there are many factors. One that is often overlooked is contraception. Once Catholics start contracepting the Catholic population begins its decline. it's there in the statistics. Before contraception was legalised in Ireland about 1978 the Net Fertility Rate was about 3. After legalisation it declined steadily and dropped below Replacement Rate (2.1) about ten years later and kept declining. It has reached as low as 1.85 and some Government bodies believe it will go down as low as 1.6 despite it reaching back up to about 2 in recent years. The result is that even were there a strong faith and good catechesis still in Ireland enough boys have not been conceived to sustain both marriage and priesthood. Ireland like the vast majority of Western nations is on the slide to ruin.

There are other impacts. Once a society de facto accepts the morality of contraception (the artificial separation of unitive and procreative ends) it also implicitly accepts the morality of homosexual acts and other perversions of sexuality. It is only a matter of time before society is pressured to normalise homosexuality as is happening. For the clergy that accept or tolerate contraceptive behaviour among the faithful and do not defend the Church's teaching it becomes increasingly difficult to promote celibacy and chastity. They become intolerable impositions and there seems to be no logical reason why homosexuality should not be accepted even among clerics.

There are other results. A people that contracept no longer see children as a gift but as a product, a possession and even as a burden. Society becomes less tolerant of children and less welcoming to them and to large families. A Catholic society that accepts contraception is less and less sacrificial in its thinking and less and less conducive to self-sacrifice and asceticism. In such an environment how can vocations grow?

In addition there is the problem of disobedience. By not keeping to the Lord's plan for sexuality we are killing our civilization and our Church. We are calling down curses on our own heads. The decline in vocations is but a symptom of the widespread disobedience (not just on the liberal side!) that has grown up in the Church especially in the West.

Married clergy were part of the early Church but they were expected to be chaste once ordained. A priest whose wife conceived was stripped of his office (see Stefan Heid's Celibacy in the Early Church: The Beginnings of Obligatory Continence for Clerics in East and West). The Eastern Church departed from tradition to avoid widespread rebellion among the lower clergy in the later part of the first millennium. It could be argued that this contributed to her later split with Rome. The Roman discipline of a celibate clergy is of Apostolic origin - to change it would be to make things worse in the long run.

The answer to our problems is fidelity to Tradition, unity with the Holy Father and obedience to God. When it comes to the 'lavender mafia' then they must be confronted with orthodoxy and invited to conversion to the true path of holiness. We should consider no man beyond redemption and never give up on anyone. That said we must oppose the evil of any elite that serves itself rather than the Kingdom of God. We need to support and stand by those who wish to deal with this evil. We need to give support to those whose backbone is weak. We need to oppose those who oppose the Kingdom. We need to unite and stick together so that these cabals are broken up and disempowered.

Reversing these evils (contraception, decline in vocations, active homosexuality in society, the Church and her priesthood, and the widespread disobedience to God) will not be easy nor will it be quick. There are dark and difficult days ahead but in Christ the Light and our Hope we can conquer.

Comments:

we have a Lavender Mafia running the Church is that in the context of an industrialized society healthy and ambitious young men have lots of other career choices aside from the military, the Royal Bureaucracy, and the Church. This has been obvious for the past 70 years at least. Normal young men would prefer to go to graduate school and get married and have a family than live a life of self-denial in the priesthood. So, the number of vocations began to dry up, the seminaries with a wink-and-a-nudge began letting gays in to fill the gap.

These gay men were ordained and then formed a network based on their common interests. They promoted each other (they still do). They protected each other. They subverted the healthy men who were willing to make the sacrifice of celibacy. They began to turn straight men away from the seminaries they controlled. As they gained power, they made sure that only their folks were in positions of power over other priests.

Bernadine. Weakland. The list goes on. These men perverted the seminaries, promoted the psychologically sick and protected the sexually criminal.

None of this would have happened if normal men had not been forced to choose between marriage and a nice career (open in modern society to nearly any young man intelligent enough to become a priest), as the homosexuals would have been prevented from taking over the commanding heights of the Church's earthly structure.
The only way to rid ourselves of this Lavender Mafia is to REQUIRE all new ordinations be granted EXCLUSIVELY to married men, as our Orthodox brothers require for parish priests.

If the Church would just do that, the priestly ranks would be swamped with healthy family men who would drive the Lavender Mafia into the ground. The Lavender Mafia knows this, which is why they like the celibacy rule so much and are willing to defend it at all costs. It's not that they believe in celibacy for themselves. They do believe in celibacy for heterosexuals, as a way to keep them out of the ranks of the clergy, which will ensure their continued power over us.

I mean, isn't this all obvious? Why can't we just admit this?
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Ok, we all understand that gay men aren't supposed to be ordained.
But they have been and are being ordained, right?

So, we have a systemic problem. The institution is not capable of carrying out the orders so obviously necessary to its own survival, as the larger interest is being subverted by entrenched Church bureaucrats with powerful vested interests.

What to do?

BXVI's solution seems to be to simply re-state the rule and then sit back and wait for the order to be executed by a subversively unwilling executive body.

Clearly, that can't work. It can't work because the entrenched Lavender Mafia won't let it work.

So, if the currently entrenched interests will not exclude all homosexuals from the ranks of the clergy, then it's quite obvious that these same ranks must be purged. IOW, the Lavender Mafia will not reform the Church by purging themselves from all positions of power in the Church. How to purge them?
As Stalin said, "the cadres determine everything." That means that if you want a new policy (like "Socialism in One Country" instead of "World Revolution") that the Trotskyite Old Guard resists, then purge the Old Guard by replacing them with a New Guard that agrees with your new policy. It's the same for the Church. If you don't want the homo-heretical policies of the Old Guard, then you must purge them and replace them with the hetero-orthodox New Guard.

It's not a terribly nice example, but it illustrates the problem. BXVI can repeat the order to bar gays from ordination until he's blue in the face, but the order won't be implemented until he replaces this responsible for implementing it.

This is what the Church will have to do if it wants to survive - i.e. remove every homosexual, whether active or not, from the ranks of the clergy, and replace them with heterosexual men.
The only way to do that is to end priestly celibacy.

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If the hierarchy would reform itself by removing all gays from the priesthood it would have done so long ago. But obviously it cannot, for the simple reason that it is riddled with homosexual men who have a powerful, vested interest to resist any change along those lines.
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I got that it's homosexuality! Good grief, did you read what I wrote?
The problem isn't just "homosexuality" but rather "deeply entrenched homosexuality." The problem is that a large part of the clergy (the exact percentages are open to debate) is gay and is promoting the homosexual agenda using Church resources.

The Church cannot implement the necessary reforms so long as the men doing the implementing vehemently disagree with the reforms and will do just about anything they can to subvert them.

It follows - I think quite clearly - that the only way to implement the reform of ridding the clergy of all homosexuals is to end the celibacy rule, which allowed the establishment of the Lavender Mafia in the first instance.

If the Church will end priestly celibacy, then the ranks of the clergy would be swamped with heterosexual men who would run the Lavender Mafia out on a rail.

This would go a long way to addressing the Church's homosexual problem.

Would it solve all problems? Of course not.

Would child abuse still happen? Of course it would, although it's hard to imagine the creation of a heterosexual Mafia that would carry out a decades long cover-up of the sins of its members. In short, whatever abuse will happen will be much more likely to be reported and punished.

It's an INSTITUTIONAL PROBLEM. Imagine that you're the head of HR of the Church. How do you address the problem of gays in the clergy?
I see no other way than to swamp them by a tidal waive of new straight ordinations.

That would certainly work. It's not a panacea, but it would go a very long way to resolving the immediate problem of molestation of boys by Catholic clergy.