Nine Months Ago: Cardinal Prevost Defends Francis' Judas Heresy
In an evening talk on August 7, 2024, at St. Jude Parish in New Lenox, Illinois, Cardinal Robert Prevost heaped praise on Francis - whom he has known for a long time, including as Archbishop of Buenos Aires (video sequence below).
Cardinal Prevost claimed that Francis "has a deep commitment to justice [!], charity and mercy." Francis tries "to live in a profound way what the Gospel says."
As bishop of Chiclayo, Peru, Prevost once spoke with Francis about the unfortunate situation of a sexual abuse case.
Prevost: "We were just sharing some thoughts about it and he said: 'Wait here, I want to show you something. He went to his room and brought back a picture of a carving, it was from a Gothic cathedral in France [Vézelay], of Judas after he has taken his own life, and Jesus next to him holding the body of Judas in his arms.
And Francis said: There's nothing dogmatic about it, you know, what could it mean? There's no need to get into the whole question of heaven and hell and yes, they …More
Oh I see, I was just "confused" about Francis. Imagine him and Bergoglio speaking so mercifully of Marcel Lefebvre as they did Judas.
Leo no longer has the spectre of Francis sitting on his shoulder. He is free to make his own Ordinary Magisterial teaching in conformity with Tradition. Also, do not believe everything that the media reports as gospel.
Extremes of God's Mercy: The Abbey of Vezelay's portrayal of Judas is a Medieval allegory, a visual catechesis, shows visually the extremes to which the Mercy of God will go. It is a "visual" reminder to illiterate peasants: "Wow, look how far God will go to convert a soul back to the Catholic Church. If even Judas can be saved, there is hope for me." NOT A DOGMA as "dogma" and "damnation" do not belong, for Catholics, in the same sentence.
Divine Justice-Divine Mercy: two sides of the same coin to use an analogy:
On the other hand, there are limits even to the Infinite Mercy of God. No conversion after death (see my previous comment). No release from hell after death. The punishment and flames of hell are eternal. Mercy until the last breath and expiration of a human person. Then only the Infinite Justice of God--because one cannot speak of Infinite Divine Mercy in a sentence without mentioning Infinite Divine Justice as well...they go hand in hand; there is not one without the other--- and Divine Judgement, instantaneous, upon that person's soul. No reprieves. Remember God is His Justice and at the same time God is His Mercy; these are ontological qualities of God, Divine Attributes that form His Essential Being...the "Whatness" of God so to speak.
Argue all you want about Judas, but no one knows for sure....no one except Our Lord God.
Is Judas Damned?: We may certainly think and believe so but we do not have the moral certitude that he is in hell. There is no 'dogma' that Judas is in hell. Why? Quite simply, the Church is not in the business of putting people in hell. The Church Militant is a hospital in which we are all patients seeking to be healed....It is not 'DEATH ROW' awaiting execution. Duh! There will be some surprises on Judgement Day. Let me tell you. Voltaire, wow, what are you doing here? We will only know if X, or Y person is in hell when we do not see them in the Beatific Vision in heaven if we are saved after our deaths. Then we will 'see' whether Judas is in hell.
Canonization of the Saints: The only way we have moral certitude about someone's state of soul after death is through the canonization of a saint by the pope fulfilling the conditions for infallibility (not so sure today given the aggiornamento of necessary qualifying conditions post-Vatican II).
Remember the Good Thief stole heaven from Our Lord...Cheeky of him...
Famous Deathbed conversions:
Constantine, the formerly pagan Roman Emperor, of course, who was baptized 'in extremis' and then died and went to heaven to become a saint. Dogma: Anyone who dies immediately after baptism enters heaven immediately without going to Purgatory as they have nothing to expiate, all is purged.
St. Dismas (The Good Thief): Perhaps the most well-known example from Holy Scripture (Luke 23:39-43). Crucified alongside Jesus, he rebuked the other thief and acknowledged Christ's innocence, asking to be remembered in His kingdom. Jesus responded with the promise, "Today you will be with me in Paradise." The first canonization...
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900): The celebrated Irish poet and playwright known for his flamboyant homosexual libertine lifestyle and conviction for "gross indecency," reportedly converted to Catholicism on his deathbed in 1900. Accounts from his friend Robert Ross and the attending priest, Father Cuthbert Dunne, suggest Wilde was conscious and desirous of receiving the sacraments.
Buffalo Bill Cody (1846-1917): The famous American scout, bison hunter, and showman was baptized Catholic on his deathbed in Denver, Colorado, in 1917, the day before he died. He was a straight shooter after that...
John Wayne (1907-1979): The iconic American actor, known for his Western films, reportedly converted to Catholicism two days before his death in 1979. He was baptized at his bedside at the request of his father. Upon seeing St. Peter at the Pearly Gates, he is purported to have said: "Well, howdy, pilgrim."
Objective, and Subjective Damnation: We have the objective moral certitude that Judas, if he died in his last suicidal intention---DEUS SOLUS SCIT-- is damned if he died in the state of mortal sin. There is no legitimate non-apocryphal tradition in the Church that puts Judas in heaven. Suicide is a mortal sin. Can someone convert while in the act of 'offing' themselves? Of course, but...we cannot know for sure in X, or Y case. DEUS SCIT. The Church is not in the business of putting people in hell, a kind of reverse 'black canonization'. Nope, never. Not once...We can believe that it is highly probable, but an infallible statement that X soul is in hell after death does not exist. We canonize saints...for everyone else until the last breath there is hope and the potential application of the infinite Merits of the Redemption of Jesus Christ if only they say: "Yes'...St. Paul remained a Jew after his conversion from Saul on the road to Damascus. Remember the dietary restrictions controversy after the First Council of Jerusalem. Paul, a Jew, rebukes Peter, a Jew, TO HIS FACE, while respecting his papacy: "You're out of line buddy. God does not care if our pickes are kosher anymore...Stop with the pharisaical attitude loading useless spiritual burdens on people's shoulders. Freedom. The Gentiles now inherit and rule the world, after the rejection of the Messiah by the majority of the Jews." Our Lord, Tribe of David, Root of Jesse, patiently awaits the conversion of the Jewish people near the end times. His Mercy is without bounds. The conversion of the "perfidious Jews" who cried out: "Let his blood be upon our heads and upon the heads of our children...Crucify him! We want Barabbas not Jesus."
Prophecy of the Conversion of the Jewish Remnant: The belief in a future conversion of a remnant of the Jewish people is rooted in several passages of Scripture, interpreted through the lens of Catholic Tradition. Key scriptural references often cited include:
Romans 11:25-26: St. Paul speaks of a "hardening in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: 'The deliverer will come out of Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob.'" This passage is often interpreted as indicating a future, large-scale conversion of the Jewish people.
Old Testament Prophecies: Certain Old Testament prophecies concerning the restoration of Israel and the gathering of the nations to Zion are also seen by some traditional interpreters as having a final fulfillment in the conversion of the remainder of the Jewish people alive at that time to the Catholic Faith during the end times.
With import for Leo XIV, OSA...:
St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD): While his views were complex and have been interpreted in different ways throughout history, Augustine developed the "witness doctrine." This idea suggested that the Jewish people would persist until the end times, not to be converted en masse before then, but to serve as living witnesses to the Old Testament prophecies that Christ fulfilled. The Jewish people continue to be a punitive reminder of the gravity of their act, and the collective responsibility of their act betraying their Christ to the Romans fully aware, at least among the corruption leaders, Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Saducees. Was every last Jew responsible? Of course not...but politicians make decisions that impact our lives, right? This is an example....nefarious...but an example. Their continued existence and the study of their scriptures would, according to this view, ultimately lead to their conversion at the end of time. He often cited Psalm 59:11 ("Slay them not, lest at any time they forget thy law: scatter them abroad among the people, O Lord our shield") to support the idea that the Jewish people should not be destroyed but preserved.
St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274 AD): Aquinas, in his writings, touches upon the subject of the conversion of the Jewish people, often in his commentaries on St. Paul's Letter to the Romans. He generally followed the interpretation that the "fullness of the Gentiles" must enter the Church before "all Israel will be saved" (Romans 11:25-26). Aquinas saw this conversion as occurring towards the end of time, as part of God's plan for salvation history. He also strongly argued against forced conversions, emphasizing that faith must be a free act of the will.
Timing of the Conversion: The traditional view often places this conversion near the end of time, during one of the stages of the Apocalypse; definitely, after the rebuilding of the Temple of Jerusalem, and the reign of the Anti-Christ, although the exact timing is not definitively known. It is seen as a part of God's plan for salvation history, where after the Gentiles have largely entered the Church, the Jewish people, as the "elder brother," will finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah and be incorporated fully into the Catholic Church.
Saul, persecutor of Catholics, became Saint Paul suffering the same Holy Martyrdom as his victims. There is always hope as long as we draw breath.
@foward Leo no longer has the spectre of Francis sitting on his shoulder. He is free to make his own Ordinary Magisterial teaching in conformity with Tradition. Also, do not believe everything that the media reports as gospel.
Extremes of God's Mercy: The Abbey of Vezelay's portrayal of Judas is a Medieval allegory, a visual catechesis, shows visually the extremes to which the Mercy of God will go. It is a "visual" reminder to illiterate peasants: "Wow, look how far God will go to convert a soul back to the Catholic Church. If even Judas can be saved, there is hope for me." NOT A DOGMA as "dogma" and "damnation" do not belong, for Catholics, in the same sentence.
Divine Justice-Divine Mercy: two sides of the same coin to use an analogy:
On the other hand, there are limits even to the Infinite Mercy of God. No conversion after death (see my previous comment). No release from hell after death. The punishment and flames of hell are eternal. Mercy until the last breath and expiration of a human person. Then only the Infinite Justice of God--because one cannot speak of Infinite Divine Mercy in a sentence without mentioning Infinite Divine Justice as well...they go hand in hand; there is not one without the other--- and Divine Judgement, instantaneous, upon that person's soul. No reprieves. Remember God is His Justice and at the same time God is His Mercy; these are ontological qualities of God, Divine Attributes that form His Essential Being...the "Whatness" of God so to speak.
Argue all you want about Judas, but no one knows for sure....no one except Our Lord God.
Is Judas Damned?: We may certainly think and believe so but we do not have the moral certitude that he is in hell. There is no 'dogma' that Judas is in hell. Why? Quite simply, the Church is not in the business of putting people in hell. The Church Militant is a hospital in which we are all patients seeking to be healed....It is not 'DEATH ROW' awaiting execution. Duh! There will be some surprises on Judgement Day. Let me tell you. Voltaire, wow, what are you doing here? We will only know if X, or Y person is in hell when we do not see them in the Beatific Vision in heaven if we are saved after our deaths. Then we will 'see' whether Judas is in hell. Canonization of the Saints: The only way we have moral certitude about someone's state of soul after death is through the canonization of a saint by the pope fulfilling the conditions for infallibility (not so sure today given the aggiornamento of necessary qualifying conditions post-Vatican II).
Remember the Good Thief stole heaven from Our Lord...Cheeky of him...
Famous Deathbed conversions:
Constantine, the formerly pagan Roman Emperor, of course, who was baptized 'in extremis' and then died and went to heaven to become a saint. Dogma: Anyone who dies immediately after baptism enters heaven immediately without going to Purgatory as they have nothing to expiate, all is purged.
St. Dismas (The Good Thief): Perhaps the most well-known example from Holy Scripture (Luke 23:39-43). Crucified alongside Jesus, he rebuked the other thief and acknowledged Christ's innocence, asking to be remembered in His kingdom. Jesus responded with the promise, "Today you will be with me in Paradise." The first canonization...
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900): The celebrated Irish poet and playwright known for his flamboyant homosexual libertine lifestyle and conviction for "gross indecency," reportedly converted to Catholicism on his deathbed in 1900. Accounts from his friend Robert Ross and the attending priest, Father Cuthbert Dunne, suggest Wilde was conscious and desirous of receiving the sacraments.
Buffalo Bill Cody (1846-1917): The famous American scout, bison hunter, and showman was baptized Catholic on his deathbed in Denver, Colorado, in 1917, the day before he died. He was a straight shooter after that...
John Wayne (1907-1979): The iconic American actor, known for his Western films, reportedly converted to Catholicism two days before his death in 1979. He was baptized at his bedside at the request of his father. Upon seeing St. Peter at the Pearly Gates, he is purported to have said: "Well, howdy, pilgrim."
Objective, and Subjective Damnation: We have the objective moral certitude that Judas, if he died in his last suicidal intention---DEUS SOLUS SCIT-- is damned if he died in the state of mortal sin. There is no legitimate non-apocryphal tradition in the Church that puts Judas in heaven. Suicide is a mortal sin. Can someone convert while in the act of 'offing' themselves? Of course, but...we cannot know for sure in X, or Y case. DEUS SCIT. The Church is not in the business of putting people in hell, a kind of reverse 'black canonization'. Nope, never. Not once...We can believe that it is highly probable, but an infallible statement that X soul is in hell after death does not exist. We canonize saints...for everyone else until the last breath there is hope and the potential application of the infinite Merits of the Redemption of Jesus Christ if only they say: "Yes'...St. Paul remained a Jew after his conversion from Saul on the road to Damascus. Remember the dietary restrictions controversy after the First Council of Jerusalem. Paul, a Jew, rebukes Peter, a Jew, TO HIS FACE, while respecting his papacy: "You're out of line buddy. God does not care if our pickes are kosher anymore...Stop with the pharisaical attitude loading useless spiritual burdens on people's shoulders. Freedom. The Gentiles now inherit and rule the world, after the rejection of the Messiah by the majority of the Jews." Our Lord, Tribe of David, Root of Jesse, patiently awaits the conversion of the Jewish people near the end times. His Mercy is without bounds. The conversion of the "perfidious Jews" who cried out: "Let his blood be upon our heads and upon the heads of our children...Crucify him! We want Barabbas not Jesus."
Prophecy of the Conversion of the Jewish Remnant: The belief in a future conversion of a remnant of the Jewish people is rooted in several passages of Scripture, interpreted through the lens of Catholic Tradition. Key scriptural references often cited include:
Romans 11:25-26: St. Paul speaks of a "hardening in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: 'The deliverer will come out of Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob.'" This passage is often interpreted as indicating a future, large-scale conversion of the Jewish people.
Old Testament Prophecies: Certain Old Testament prophecies concerning the restoration of Israel and the gathering of the nations to Zion are also seen by some traditional interpreters as having a final fulfillment in the conversion of the remainder of the Jewish people alive at that time to the Catholic Faith during the end times.
With import for Leo XIV, OSA...:
St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD): While his views were complex and have been interpreted in different ways throughout history, Augustine developed the "witness doctrine." This idea suggested that the Jewish people would persist until the end times, not to be converted en masse before then, but to serve as living witnesses to the Old Testament prophecies that Christ fulfilled. The Jewish people continue to be a punitive reminder of the gravity of their act, and the collective responsibility of their act betraying their Christ to the Romans fully aware, at least among the corruption leaders, Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Saducees. Was every last Jew responsible? Of course not...but politicians make decisions that impact our lives, right? This is an example....nefarious...but an example. Their continued existence and the study of their scriptures would, according to this view, ultimately lead to their conversion at the end of time. He often cited Psalm 59:11 ("Slay them not, lest at any time they forget thy law: scatter them abroad among the people, O Lord our shield") to support the idea that the Jewish people should not be destroyed but preserved.
St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274 AD): Aquinas, in his writings, touches upon the subject of the conversion of the Jewish people, often in his commentaries on St. Paul's Letter to the Romans. He generally followed the interpretation that the "fullness of the Gentiles" must enter the Church before "all Israel will be saved" (Romans 11:25-26). Aquinas saw this conversion as occurring towards the end of time, as part of God's plan for salvation history. He also strongly argued against forced conversions, emphasizing that faith must be a free act of the will.
Timing of the Conversion: The traditional view often places this conversion near the end of time, during one of the stages of the Apocalypse; definitely, after the rebuilding of the Temple of Jerusalem, and the reign of the Anti-Christ, although the exact timing is not definitively known. It is seen as a part of God's plan for salvation history, where after the Gentiles have largely entered the Church, the Jewish people, as the "elder brother," will finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah and be incorporated fully into the Catholic Church.
Despite his obvious modernist influences, if he is a man of genuine good will & love of God, then hopefully the Graces of the Office will guid him to become righteous in his duties? Time will tell.
St. Robert Bellarmine: “It is probable and may piously be believed that not only as ‘Pope’ can the Supreme Pontiff not err, but he cannot be a heretic even as a particular person by pertinaciously believing something false against the faith” (De Romano Pontifice, Book IV, Ch. 6).
Bull of Pope Paul IV Against Heretics: "Cum Ex …
The Magisterium of the Church has decreed that the elevation of a heretic to the papacy, even if he were elected by all the cardinals, is invalid and null.
One more comment from la verdad prevalece
There is no time in hell. At death, our soul will enter eternity forever. No change of heart is possible after physical death. Our last state of soul will be eternal.
Why?
There is no time, or succession of events, in eternity. Our last act of the will is eternal.
—————-
(In Limbo, and in Purgatory, we speak of the mysterious “slow” passage of eons, a time-like reality, however, outside of time.
Purgatory, a temporary place of purification of the soul of the temporal consequences and effects of already forgiven sin, allows for meritorious acts of atonement to expiate our debt. Others can merit for you. “You broke the butcher’s window throwing stones, now you have to pay for it, or your Dad.”
Limbo is a permanent place for unbaptized souls, the pre-born who died in the womb, or as infants, without having committed personal sin. These souls are in the state of original sin through no fault of their own. They cannot go to hell, and they are deprived of Heaven. Atonement is not possible. Limbo is a permanent state of being, in a special permanent place, without the Beatific Vision, and with the deprivation of God’s presence; however, without suffering, or punishment, and with the fullness of natural happiness.)
——————-
Our soul will be “frozen” so to speak in the last rational act of the will: either that of the love of God and sanctifying grace, or that of the hatred of God, and the absence of Divine Charity, or the state of mortal sin.
Once in hell, the conversion of a damned soul is no longer possible because there is no time, or passage of events. Time will no longer exist. Eternity in hell is the all-at-once punishment of eternal death by the real spiritual flames of hell, by despair, and by anger against and in the hatred of God, others, and oneself.
Lucifer cannot return to heaven after having failed God’s one-time test of all of the angels in Heaven by a prophetic vision of the Redemption, ie. “via media” of the birth and vile crucifixion of the God-Man, Our Lord Jesus Christ, born of a lowly Ever-Virgin, Mary, who would become the Mother of God, Queen of Heaven and Earth, and both would reign over the angels.
“Non serviam!” Lucifer, with his superior angelic nature, out of the sin of pride, rejected the vision of a “lowly human Redemption,” rejected the Incarnation, and the Miraculous Virgin Birth of the Son of God, and the Kingship of Christ with the Queenship of Mary, and was instantly thrust down into hell for all eternity.
Judas, thief, and betrayer of Our Lord for 30 pieces of silver, rejected Our Lord’s Mercy and Forgiveness in the Garden of Gethsemani, sealed his treachery with a kiss, did not convert in the end despite Our Lord’s invitation, and died a suicide in despair. God’s Judgement of Judas’ damned soul is ETERNAL.
its an utterly false conception of mercy wherby someone who openly tells God to clear off is then wanted by God.
It makes God out to be a bit of a dim wit.
"Cardinal Robert Prevost heaped praise on Francis"
This means nothing.
Many people's perception of Pope Bergoglio were formed by the globalist MainStreamMedia. They do not know who Pope Francis/Bergoglio was or what he said! After the death of Pope Francis, people started putting a "good spin" on his legacy. They are basically rewriting history. (IMO, they are lying!)
Pope Leo XIV can now craft his own agenda. He no longer must be "obedient" to a human authority.
Let us wait and see. I remain hopeful.
This new guy Leo was made a cardinal after the death of the last true pope Benedict.
As such his elevation to the college of cardinals was null and void.
However he might be a roman catholic so lets give him a chance.
Let us pray fervently that the new Holy Father does not promote, approve of, or advance sodomy and sodomites, nor any part of their agenda.
His view on the horror document Fiducia Supplicans appears to be that its up to the local bishops conferences to sort it out,
In other words kick the can down the road.
Deeply discouraging, disappointing and concerning.
The problem devolves to the validity of Prevosts elevation to the college of cardinals.