Polonia Semper Fidelis!

Michael, a polish man, is on a pilgrimage across Poland - with a 15 kg cross and a rosary.
RosaMystica15
wow unbelievable...go go go Michael! Deus Vult
frawley
@Ultraviolet I tend to agree with most of your posts on this site but I have to strongly disagree with you on this one. Following your logic we should not have public Euchristic processions or public celebrations of Holy Days or any public display of our faith. The world needs his rosaries and acts of penance and reparation far more than it needs more canned goods at the local food pantry. …More
@Ultraviolet I tend to agree with most of your posts on this site but I have to strongly disagree with you on this one. Following your logic we should not have public Euchristic processions or public celebrations of Holy Days or any public display of our faith. The world needs his rosaries and acts of penance and reparation far more than it needs more canned goods at the local food pantry. Should priests and nuns not wear their habits in public? Should we not pray our rosaries outside of abortion clinics? Our faith should not be shuttered behind closed doors! It is not a matter of spiritual pride but a matter of witnessing to a world that is dying spiritually and needs to turn back to God. I am reminded of China where today all outward signs of the faith must remain inside the church building without even a cross on the exterior. It breaks my heart when I see our own bishops in public tucking their pectoral crucifixes inside their suitcoat pockets or even worse wearing lay clothing. We need more brave souls like this man in Poland!
Ultraviolet
"Following your logic we should not have public Euchristic processions or public celebrations of Holy Days or any public display of our faith."

No, Frawley. Logically speaking that's a fallacy of a slippery slope.

"The world needs his rosaries and acts of penance and reparation far more than it needs more canned goods at the local food pantry."

Much of the world's hungry would, I suspect, …More
"Following your logic we should not have public Euchristic processions or public celebrations of Holy Days or any public display of our faith."

No, Frawley. Logically speaking that's a fallacy of a slippery slope.

"The world needs his rosaries and acts of penance and reparation far more than it needs more canned goods at the local food pantry."

Much of the world's hungry would, I suspect, strenuously disagree. ;-)

Jesus was very explicit on the subject of feeding the hungry too. It was His first example in His "sheep and the goat" parable. You're being chill, which I do appreciate, so I'll save you the scrolling... there.
.Matthew 25:31-46

Jesus understood hunger from a personal level. He new what starvation felt like. As we read in Matthew 4:2 "And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterwards he was hungry."

...afterwards he was hungry...

Oh man... :D That is an understatement. If you haven't, try a real-deal forty days fast, water only. II's brutal.

That's also the reason why the devil's first temptation is food-related. "If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread."

The evil one knew Jesus was hurting bad with hunger.

"Should priests and nuns not wear their habits in public?"

No one is criticizing his dress. merely his actions . Also, this man may not necessarily be priest. So says Canon Law 588 §1

Priests and nuns do not (as an overwhelming rule) misread Scripture literally into such displays, either.

"Should we not pray our rosaries outside of abortion clinics?"

He is not praying outside of abortion clinics.

"Our faith should not be shuttered behind closed doors!"

That's nice hyberbole, I could just as readily claim "Our faith should not become a spectacle!". Particularly a self-invented one. This not a Eucharistic procession or a Holy Day celebration. This is something one guy cooked up and it's not even an original idea. Some guy in South Carolina already did this one.

" It is not a matter of spiritual pride but a matter of witnessing to a world that is dying spiritually and needs to turn back to God."

Since neither of us are psychics, neither of us knows the thinking (prideful or not) that went into to the very public manner of his "pilgrimage". I put the word in quotes since, historically, pigrimages had a specifically intended destination.

"I am reminded of China where today all outward signs of the faith must remain inside the church building without even a cross on the exterior."

State-mandated destruction of religious displays has no bearing on the spiritual merits of a private individual doing something lawful. Fallacy: Non Sequitur.

"It breaks my heart when I see our own bishops in public tucking their pectoral crucifixes inside their suitcoat pockets or even worse wearing lay clothing."

See above. Clerics choosing to wear secular garb has many causes beyond any implied shame in being clerics. In the case of bishops, these days, it's a basic precaution against purely money-motivated robbery.

Also, this is a bit of a fallacy of a false dilemma. Since there is a wide range of behavior between the extremes of self-invented displays of one's faith and those displays that are a natural consequent of clerical dress or a part of Catholic litrugical life.

If this man is a Benedictine, please feel free to quote the Rule of Benedict mandating (or even recommending) cross-country trips through Poland carrying a non-functional cross. ;-)

.
frawley
Jesus could have fed every hungry person on the planet and healed every sick person on earth, but he did not. The eternal is always more important than the temporal. Maybe a little more research on why he flt led to do what he did before slamming him. I respect the man in the fight far more than the critics in the bleachers.
Ultraviolet
"Jesus could have fed every hungry person on the planet and healed every sick person on earth, but he did not."

Yes, He could have. Since He has not and the hungry remain and Christ -did- preach a parable where those who fed the hungry were among the saved.... that's compelling argument for the merit of doing so.

"The eternal is always more important than the temporal."

I believe you mean …More
"Jesus could have fed every hungry person on the planet and healed every sick person on earth, but he did not."

Yes, He could have. Since He has not and the hungry remain and Christ -did- preach a parable where those who fed the hungry were among the saved.... that's compelling argument for the merit of doing so.

"The eternal is always more important than the temporal."

I believe you mean "spiritual" rather than "temporal". The spirit -is- more important than the temporal. Likewise, spiritual devotion is more wortwhile than temporal and self-invented displays of it.

"Maybe a little more research on why he flt led to do what he did before slamming him."

I'm not slamming him. I'm slamming how he chooses to spend his time, if his intent is to gain spiritual merit .

I argue that feeding the poor and hungry are better ways of doing so because Christ explicitly mentioned it in a parable.

If you wish to argue otherwise, fair enough. Please quote the parable where Christ praises the favour the faithful gain by carrying a non-functional cross through Poland. :D

If his intent is "the conversion of Poland" again... there are better ways of doing so. -particularly now in the 21st century where most Poles are literate, reasonably sophisticated, and less swayed by Medieval-style pilgrimages accompanied by low-grade self-mortification.

I'm not really concerned why he chose to read Scripture in an over-literal manner since it's self-evident by his actions that he did so. Hey, this guy's got nothing on Ruben Enaje when it comes to that.

"I respect the man in the fight far more than the critics in the bleachers."

Failed metaphor. This guy isn't in any "fight", not even a metaphoric one. He isn't fighting against sin, or hunger, or poverty, or much of anything else. He's chosen to place himself on the public stage with a piece of religiously themed performance-art.

Critics, then, have equal right to comment on his work.
frawley
I recommend that you immediately stop using your time to display your religiously themed ideas on the public stage of this website and get a second job to earn more money to buy food for your local food bank.
Give the guy a break.
Ultraviolet
A public comment on a religiously themed board and a religious gesture are not comparable. Try again. ;-)
frawley
Of course they are comparable. He spends his time carrying a cross and you spend your time posting. If his time could have been better spent earning money to feed the hungry then your time could also have been better spent earning money to feed the hungry.
(side note: I spend a fair amount of time in Europe and have not seen many people dying of hunger. Here at home the number one health problem …More
Of course they are comparable. He spends his time carrying a cross and you spend your time posting. If his time could have been better spent earning money to feed the hungry then your time could also have been better spent earning money to feed the hungry.
(side note: I spend a fair amount of time in Europe and have not seen many people dying of hunger. Here at home the number one health problem with our poor is obesity.)
Ultraviolet
"More than most of us do" @Jmy1975 Y'all making a big 'ole assumption there, pilgrim (that was intentional, btw).

Many, many Catholics donate to food pantries. They don't say anything, no big fan-fare, nothing that has any of the visuals in this "pilgrimage" but it does a world more good for a lot more people.

Think about it this way.

Imagine if this dude spent all the time he's blowing …More
"More than most of us do" @Jmy1975 Y'all making a big 'ole assumption there, pilgrim (that was intentional, btw).

Many, many Catholics donate to food pantries. They don't say anything, no big fan-fare, nothing that has any of the visuals in this "pilgrimage" but it does a world more good for a lot more people.

Think about it this way.

Imagine if this dude spent all the time he's blowing on this "pilgrimage" and took a second job. He'd have one HECK of a nice stack of cash. If he then donated it to a reputable Catholic charity, which accomplishes more? Buying food and clothing for the needy (advised by Jesus Himself) oooooor...

Spending the same time sauntering along in the middle of nowhere with a "cross" that couldn't even hold his own weight?

While this is a bit off-topic, this is the main reason I've never gone on those religious-themed "pigrimage" vacations. It's really just spending money on yourself for some funky religious tourism. I can do that State-side just by visiting different Catholic churches.
Jmy1975
You're making assumptions about the guy you just mocked @Ultraviolet . So maybe you shouldn't have said anything? Probably. Off you go.
Ultraviolet
"You're making assumptions about the guy you just mocked". -None demonstrated. Unsupported claim. Off YOU go. :D
Jmy1975
@Ultraviolet you assumed his gesture is worthless compared to Christ. Gestures are just that, gestures, and you can't place a worth on someone's gesture because that would mean you know their heart. Once again logic trumps your idiocy. Oh and p.s., could you or would you drag a 30 pound cross across Poland? I wonder if you or any human could carry Christ's cross 10 feet, let alone the mile, give …More
@Ultraviolet you assumed his gesture is worthless compared to Christ. Gestures are just that, gestures, and you can't place a worth on someone's gesture because that would mean you know their heart. Once again logic trumps your idiocy. Oh and p.s., could you or would you drag a 30 pound cross across Poland? I wonder if you or any human could carry Christ's cross 10 feet, let alone the mile, give or take, that he did.

You probably wear a mask in public, so my guess is you aren't nearly that brave or faithful. I am assuming, though :)
Ultraviolet
"you assumed his gesture is worthless compared to Christ."

I made no assumptions on its worth in comparison to Christ or the value of his gesture TO Christ (i.e. the one you allege that I assigned, namely :worthless).

Instead I argued (and do argue) his time would be better spent and could do more good for more people and accomplish something Christ specifically advocated. ;-)

Christ …More
"you assumed his gesture is worthless compared to Christ."

I made no assumptions on its worth in comparison to Christ or the value of his gesture TO Christ (i.e. the one you allege that I assigned, namely :worthless).

Instead I argued (and do argue) his time would be better spent and could do more good for more people and accomplish something Christ specifically advocated. ;-)

Christ Himself fed the hungry.

"Gestures are just that, gestures, and you can't place a worth on someone's gesture because that would mean you know their heart. Once again logic trumps your idiocy."

Once again you demonstrate that you're a lousy logician. :D Today is no different.

"you can't place a worth on someone's gesture because that would mean you know their heart."

The latter is not a necessary pre-condition for assigning value to the former.

Gestures, particularly public gestures such as this, have meaning only in how they are percieved by others. Value derives from reconciling the efficacy of the gesture with its intent.

See how quickly "logic" bites you when you insist on teasing it? You should have learned this by now. ;-)

You done goofed. This might not be apparent so follow along for a bit...

Example One:

A man sitting on a street corner is violently shaking his head from side to side. In his mind this gesture will bring about the conversion of Poland.

To passers-by his gesture is that of a gibbering lunatic and meaningless. If his -intent- was to convert Poland it's still meaningless (and thus worthless in accomplishing its end), precisely because passers-by don't know this. Remember: a public gesture is done for others' benefit!

In this example, we -do- know what is in the man's heart (i.e. his intent) courtesy of Facebook.

If anything, because passers-by don't know this intent this cross-carrying man and people reading Facebook/ GTV do know it, we're in a unique position to assess the worth of his gesture in accomplishing his intent (i.e. the conversion of Poland).

He's just some random guy walking on the side of a roadway with a cross. The most a viewer can derive by the gesture and dress is he's some religious looking dude, probably a Catholic (since this is Poland) doing something religious for religious reasons, probably Jesus-related since he's carrying a cross which evokes the Crucifixion.

Because we know his intent and there are no references tying his intent to his gesture, this renders it meaningless to the observer. Thus it can be judged worthless in accomplishing its aim.

Example Two:

A popular actor donates very heavily a Polish Catholic charity aimed eliminating hunger, ending homelessness, and so on. The actor lends their presence to the charity, the whole works.

However, the world at large doesn't know the actor is doing so entirely on the urging of his accounting team for tax-purposes.

However, I -can- assign a value to the actor's gesture. Celebrity "star-power" increases charitable giving by others. Thus, the value of the actor's gesture is very high, in addition to counting their own donation..

His own personal motivation for the gesture "what's in his heart" as you call it, is something I do not know. But that knowledge has no bearing on the value of the gesture itself in accomplishing its intent (reducing hunger).
Jmy1975
@Ultraviolet you are indeed assuming. For this guy could be doing or could have done other things that are material acts, good deeds, and you'd have no way of knowing. You're saying that this act isnt worth anything, yet you don't know that at all.

You are like Judas who was upset at the lady who poured oil over his feet instead of selling it and helping the poor. You're a fake, a fraud, and a …More
@Ultraviolet you are indeed assuming. For this guy could be doing or could have done other things that are material acts, good deeds, and you'd have no way of knowing. You're saying that this act isnt worth anything, yet you don't know that at all.

You are like Judas who was upset at the lady who poured oil over his feet instead of selling it and helping the poor. You're a fake, a fraud, and a coward.

Prayer is the most important thing a Christian can do. But on the surface it doesn't help anyone directly. Self sacrifice, fasting, mortification, are all kinds of prayer. This guy walking across Poland is witnessing for Jesus. That is never in vain.

Maybe you think your own behavior honors Jesus and helps others. At least on GTV it doesn't. And if you think what you do as a Christian is better than what others do, that's the only reward you get.

It is peculiar that you think showing a love of Jesus is a bad thing. Or, rather, meaningless.

Sad.
Ultraviolet
"you are indeed assuming."

Repeating the accusation doesn't make it true, particularly since you persist on not showing any support for the claim.

"For this guy could be doing or could have done other things that are material acts, good deeds, and you'd have no way of knowing."

On the contrary, in this instance, I can. For the simple reason this guy can't be in two different places at once. …More
"you are indeed assuming."

Repeating the accusation doesn't make it true, particularly since you persist on not showing any support for the claim.

"For this guy could be doing or could have done other things that are material acts, good deeds, and you'd have no way of knowing."

On the contrary, in this instance, I can. For the simple reason this guy can't be in two different places at once. He can't be working at a Warsaw food pantry and simultaneously wandering the sylvan Polish country-side.

Logic has long fangs, potent venom, and a matchless willingness to use both. :D

"You're saying that this act isnt worth anything,"

Tsk*
... Strawman premise.

" yet you don't know that at all."

Faulty assumption derived from fallacious premise.

"You are like Judas who was upset at the lady who poured oil over his feet instead of selling it and helping the poor."

Failed analogy. "The lady" was worshipping God incarnate. There was the mistake Judas and the other Apostles failed to see. You refrenced Judas exclusively to highlight his role as the betrayer of Christ.

But that's just you being obnoxious, inflammatory, and deliberately imprecise.

Christ recognized her gesture as a prefigurment of His impending death.

"For the poor you have always with you: but me you have not always. For she in pouring this ointment upon my body, hath done it for my burial." Matthew 26:12-13

So then, using the passage you referred to so vaguely, Christ's words hold true today

We still have the poor with us always -AND- we do not have Christ with us any longer. Therefore, according to Christ's stated alternatives, the obligation falls to the poor.

Likewise, this cross-carrying Pole isn't trying to honour of Christ before His impending death, is he? No? Fancy that.

I just love it when you try to be a Scripture-scholar without looking Scripture up.

"You're a fake, a fraud, and a coward."

....and, you're back to being your loud-mouth internet tough-guy self. Boring.

Callin' me a coward doesn't mean much from a guy who's such a gutless little worm he took his picture down. Oh yeah, home-boy you jus dat BAD!

As for "fake and fraud" even if both were true, what a humiliating thing for you to lose to someone like that.

...and not just once or twice, but every time you're dumb enough to bicker with them. Stick to the light-weights on GTV like Be Ye Stupid and Enemacassanova for the time being. A few nicely won victories against those two dullards doesn't mean you're ready for a title bout against me. ;-)

"Prayer is the most important thing a Christian can do."

Actually loving God is the most important thing a Christian can do. That's The Greatest Commandment according to The Man Himself.

Worth noting the second commandment, in Christ's own words "like unto it" is loving our neighbors.

Like I said, you don't know your Scripture.

"Self sacrifice, fasting, mortification, are all kinds of prayer."

Wrong. They are choices of action and aren't automatically tied to the addressing of a diety, much less Christ.

An atheist can "self-sacrifice" out of purely altruistic purposes. Fasting can be done entirely for entirely secular medical purposes. Mortification can be done as part of some exceedingly perverse sexual practices that are counter to God.

So, again, no. They're not "all kinds of prayer."

"This guy walking across Poland is witnessing for Jesus."

Witnessing for Jesus???
Witnessing for Jesus???


You a convert, aren't you? Your vocabulary is consistent with non-Catholic religious cultures.
Like so:
forestparkbaptist.com/…/witnessing-for-…

...and this:
www.revivalandreformation.org/…/witnessing-for-…

...and these characters.
www.newsbug.info/…/article_e61439b…

If you're not a convert and I DO have my doubts, I've had them before, but now I really have them, then y'all really need to stop lettin' those good ole'boys fill yer haid with that kinda talk.

They're convertin' you, pardnah. You ain't convertin' them.

"Maybe you think your own behavior honors Jesus and helps others. At least on GTV it doesn't."

You don't speak for the entirety of GTV's readership, champ. Don't assume that you do.

Likewise... you, bucko, do not speak for Jesus.

GTV hasn't appointed you their official spokes-goon and Jesus has not appointed you His temporal judge for the behavior of others.

I'll leave it to the individual reader to decide if I help them or honor Jesus or merely amuse them at your expense or anything else.

I'll find out what Jesus thinks when I'm dead.

"It is peculiar that you think showing a love of Jesus is a bad thing. Or, rather, meaningless."

You're back to making sloppy assumptions on what I think and even sloppier errors in your reasoning. I am criticzing this man's public gesture as meaningless for its intended purpose which was NOT "love of Jesus" That's the purpose YOU just invented.

The cross-carrying Pole's own purpose is (and I quote) "the conversion of his country". I've already explained why this public gesture won't have that effect.

Since you're being an absolute nit about this and I'm having a blast, let's really kick it up here. amigo.

Poland is 92.9% Catholic. It has the fourth highest percentage of Catholics on the planet.

Therefore this man's country already HAS been converted and the intention of his "pigrimage" has already occurred even before he began it

Simply put, he's asking God for something to occur when it already happened.

Up next, we'll see some derpy Novus Ordo stoner hiking from one end of California to the other, beseeching The Almighty for the legalization of cannabis.
Jmy1975
@Ultraviolet I think carrying that fake cross across Poland is enough of a gesture. More than most of us do.
Scapular
Praise be Jesus - a man on a mission! We will pray for him Deo Gratias. I knew a Priest who carried a cross the length of New Zealand and he gained many graces that converted his life back to the faith of his ordination may he now RIP
Ultraviolet
Hi, it's Matt. 6: 5-15 here, sayin' don't do that stuff. Hi, it's UV here too, sayin' yer doin' it all wrong. Jesus didn't carry a wimpy 15kg. Try upwards of 136 kg (300 lbs.) if you want to interpret Matt 16: 24-26 literally like this. So if yer gonna do it, do it for real and Christ said you shouldn't be doing it like this at all.