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Exclusive Interview With Mother of Thirteen: The Judge Ruled that "My Intention" Was Illegal

Kathy Clubb is a homeschooling Melbourne mother of thirteen and one of Australia’s most prominent pro-life activists. Together with a colleague who was praying silently, she approached in 2016 a couple breaching for four seconds an exclusion zone around an abortion mill in order to test the law. Both pro-lifers carried no signs or banners. For this, Kathy was fined 5000 Australian dollars. On February 19, she lost an appeal at the Victoria's Supreme Court. Gloria.tv spoke with her.

How long have you been going through this?
Kathy Clubb: This Supreme Court appeal was the final stage of a 3 1/2 year legal challenge which began in 2016.

How did it start?
KC: The first stage was a Magistrate's Court hearing at which I was convicted and given a good behaviour bond.

Why did you not stop there?
KC: Our goal was to go to the High Court of Australia to challenge the validity of the exclusion-zone laws, based on their infringement on our freedom of political communication. There is no right to free speech in the Australian Constitution.

When was this?
KC: This, we did in 2018, but unfortunately, the full bench of seven Justices ruled that the laws are constitutional. The High Court of Australia hearing gave me another chance to determine if there are any activities that pro-lifers can undertake within the zone.

So the case lost in February at the Supreme Court of Victoria was something else?
KC: Yes. My case had two elements which are quite separate: my actions on the day in question (state law) plus the validity of the law itself (constitutional law). In Australia, the lowest court for State matters is the Magistrate's Court. Our court of appeal for state matters is the Victoria Supreme Court.

You lost everywhere?
KC: I was unsuccessful in the Magistrate's Court, so I appealed to the Supreme Court of Victoria to determine whether I had actually transgressed the law since we believe the Magistrate made an error. Most cases stay within the confines of the state where the law was broken, of course. But mine also contained the constitutional element: Was the law itself constitutional? So we went to the High Court of Australia to determine that aspect (2018). The constitutional aspect was not dependent on the Supreme Court outcome.

What happened at your arrest in 2016?
KC: I was taken to a nearby police station and kept under arrest for about an hour. I was allowed to keep my rosary beads and prayed a rosary for my colleagues, for the police officers and for the abortionist.

Did you expect being punished for helping pregnant mothers?
KC: I did expect to be charged. It was an intentional strategy in which I took part on behalf of all the pro-lifers who disagreed with the exclusion-zone law.

Why did you do this?
We felt that we had to use every means possible to challenge this unjust law.

Was there a chance to win the case?
KC: We felt that we did have a chance for a couple of reasons. Firstly, an environmentalist had won a similar case in the High Court of Australia when he fought exclusion zones around logging sites. We know that many people think trees are more important than the unborn, but also at stake was the right to protest.

So you had allies?
KC: This kind of restriction can affect the community more widely. For example, it could lead to journalists one day finding their rights restricted. Similarly, some pro-abortion socialists and libertarians were concerned about this law. So this potential for other groups to be targeted led us to hope that the High Court of Australia would find the laws too restrictive to be constitutional.

You had a second reason to believe in your chances?
KC: Yes, my Victoria Supreme Court appeal rested on our belief that the Magistrate had erred by judging that I communicated about abortion to the couple outside the abortion mill. There is no evidence that I did mention abortion - remember, the encounter was only a few seconds.

How did the judge reply to that?
KC: The Victoria Supreme Court judge ruled that my intention was to dissuade the couple from procuring an abortion, so that was enough. This is a clear example of Thought Crime becoming a reality.

With what impression did this leave you?
KC: Unfortunately, the justice system in Australia, and particularly in my state of Victoria, is largely driven by ideology. Cardinal Pell's case is one which shows that it is possible to bring false charges against a priest or prelate in order to punish the entire Catholic Church.

Are some more equal before the law than others?
KC: While I don't deny that I was found inside the exclusion zone, it is shameful that abortion is completely legal, even to nine months, and that someone who disagrees with abortion or peacefully tries to help women can be fined or even imprisoned. Frivolous lawsuits against those who maintain the Church's teaching on homosexuality are also very common here. The LGBTIQ+ lobby routinely uses the law to punish innocent Christians for their deeply-held beliefs.

What about free speech in Australia?
KC: As mentioned previously, freedom of speech is not guaranteed under the Australian Constitution. Even 'freedom of political communication' is only implied and is not explicit.

Do people know this?
KC: Many Australians assume that freedom of speech exists, but in reality, political correctness, as well as laws such as the one I challenged, mean that we are restricted in what we can say and where we can say it - unless we are willing to face the consequences.

Is your fight for unborn children outside of abortion mills over?
KC: My part in a legal challenge is over. I will continue to sometimes pray outside abortion providers at the 150-metre mark, and to write about abortion and related issues.

You are a mother of 13, how do you find time to help other mothers’ babies?
KC: Firstly, every effort at helping pregnant mothers is a group effort: one might counsel, others might pray, another might give moral support, someone else donates money, another might provide accommodation. So, no person takes on the full responsibility. Then I must point out that half of my children are adults who have left home, and that I wouldn't do what I do if I still had very young children.

Gloria.tv helped in 2007 averting buffer zones in Austria by publishing video material showing how employees of an abortion mill abused pro-lifers who remained calm and friendly. How is the situation in Australia?
KC: It is wonderful that you were able to help in this way. My experience in Australia is similar: the pro-lifers that I have prayed with are disciplined and calm. They are only there to help the mothers and to draw attention to the horror of abortion.

And the other side?
KC: Counter-protesters and abortion staff, though, as well as partners of the aborting mothers, can be very rude and abusive, and in some cases, there has been violence. Thankfully this isn't widespread, but it does happen.

Is there a way to help you?
KC: That is very kind of you. My family and I can always use prayers, and please remember to pray for Cardinal Pell.

Picture: Michael Coghlan, CC-BY-SA
GChevalier
1- Fighting against laws, even when they are unjust, is impossible: worse, it often reinforces them.
2- Demonstrations against abortion, whatever they may be, are useless: worse, they exacerbate and may cause more abortions.
3- The only effective means is prayer and especially the recitation of the Rosary.
4- There is another means that almost nobody uses. It consists in warning women who want …More
1- Fighting against laws, even when they are unjust, is impossible: worse, it often reinforces them.
2- Demonstrations against abortion, whatever they may be, are useless: worse, they exacerbate and may cause more abortions.
3- The only effective means is prayer and especially the recitation of the Rosary.
4- There is another means that almost nobody uses. It consists in warning women who want to have an abortion beforehand and suggesting that they take care of the child from birth. But for this, structures are needed, and it is certainly not the conciliar who will contribute to this since she is pro-death.
GChevalier
1- Lutter contre les lois, même quand elles sont injustes, est impossible : pire, cela souvent les renforce.
2- Les manifestations contre l'avortement, quelles qu'elles soient, ne servent à rien : pire, elles exacerbent et peuvent provoquer davantage d'avortements.
3- Le seul moyen efficace est la prière et spécialement la récitation du Chapelet.
4- Il y a un autre moyen que personne ou presque …More
1- Lutter contre les lois, même quand elles sont injustes, est impossible : pire, cela souvent les renforce.
2- Les manifestations contre l'avortement, quelles qu'elles soient, ne servent à rien : pire, elles exacerbent et peuvent provoquer davantage d'avortements.
3- Le seul moyen efficace est la prière et spécialement la récitation du Chapelet.
4- Il y a un autre moyen que personne ou presque n'emploie. Il consiste à prévenir en amont les femmes qui veulent avorter et leur proposer de s'occuper de l'enfant dès sa naissance. Mais pour cela, il faut des structures, et ce n'est certainement pas la conciliaire qui y contribuera puisqu'elle est pro-mort.
Jungerheld
Kathy Clubb, thank you for your witness and all of your efforts to protect the innocent, unborn. As you said, it is a group effort, and everyone can play a part.

A conviction based on the court's determination of the defendant's intention is indeed, "Thought Crime".

I had never heard this term before but now realize it goes all the way back to a 1949 George Orwell novel. Well, this (or its …More
Kathy Clubb, thank you for your witness and all of your efforts to protect the innocent, unborn. As you said, it is a group effort, and everyone can play a part.

A conviction based on the court's determination of the defendant's intention is indeed, "Thought Crime".

I had never heard this term before but now realize it goes all the way back to a 1949 George Orwell novel. Well, this (or its opposite, depending on your place in the ideology in power) what got Hillary Clinton off the hook - she didn't "intend"...to put the country in danger by declassifying info., losing info., not being tech-savvy...etc.
HerzMariae
Today marks a shameful anniversary for Australian justice Cardinal Pell has spent one year in jail for crimes impossible to commit
michaelgolfnut
If Australia thinks the fires were bad, keep it up. The next chastisement will be worse.
HerzMariae
Australia and many more countries became institutionally anti-Christian.
De Profundis
Would be interesting to know what Kathy Clubb said in her 5 seconds. "Hallo, can I help..."
Eva
Childless judges want more abortions and then will have to bring in Muslims, Chinese. This mother of 13 (!) is a bearer of future. Judges of death.
Tesa
Victoria is the most left-wing and socialist state in Australia: Jailing Cardinal Pell on bogus charges, passing a law to try to force priests to break their vow of Confessional secrecy, pro-abortion and pro-euthanasia.
rhemes1582
1st I want to thank this Mother of 13 for fighting against those Hell bent on murdering the unborn.
I want to thank this mom for her courage in the face of such darkness.
I hope she knows what a role model she is to so many Christians, and people of good will that daily ask God in prayer and penance to Rebuke the Evil that manifests itself in the Murder of the unborn children of the world.

Long…More
1st I want to thank this Mother of 13 for fighting against those Hell bent on murdering the unborn.
I want to thank this mom for her courage in the face of such darkness.
I hope she knows what a role model she is to so many Christians, and people of good will that daily ask God in prayer and penance to Rebuke the Evil that manifests itself in the Murder of the unborn children of the world.

Long Live Christ The King.
St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle, be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the Devil. May God Rebuke him we humbly pray and do thou O' Prince of The Heavenly Hosts by the power of God cast into Hell , Satan and all the other evil spirits prowling about the World seeking the ruin of souls.
Virgin Most Powerful, pray for us
Holy Cannoli
In my limited way, I understand the motivation and the miscarriage of justice that Kathy Clubb has suffered at the hands of the Australian Justice system.

Kathy states:...the justice system in Australia, and particularly in my state of Victoria, is largely driven by ideology.

True and the tragic fact is that that ideology is of political correctness (read: liberalism) and does not incorporate …More
In my limited way, I understand the motivation and the miscarriage of justice that Kathy Clubb has suffered at the hands of the Australian Justice system.

Kathy states:...the justice system in Australia, and particularly in my state of Victoria, is largely driven by ideology.

True and the tragic fact is that that ideology is of political correctness (read: liberalism) and does not incorporate values that especially Christians embrace.

My personal belief is that until the Church takes a bold, unambiguous and firm stand for life, at all stages, the pro-death cult will continue to sway the hearts and minds of the populace and, in turn, of the judiciary which attempts to reflect the will of the people within the boundaries of the constitution. This is only one area that Church teaching and its teachers are lacking and the devastating effects are seen in this Australian case, in the US and, indeed, throughout the world.
Don Reto Nay
It's a fact that most episcopal conferences (also those named by JPII) are "pro-choice" = pro-death.
Don Reto Nay
While we are betrayed first by the bishops and then by the priests, we should remember that Pius X? said: "If you need something to be done, then ask a mother with 10 children." Women have always been the backbone of the Church, but not in the way the Anti-Catholics would like them to be(come).
Fischl
Yes, we shall feminism replace by motherism. Ten cheers to this brave woman. How could our prayers be accompanied by some financial support?
bakers12
Fischl, thank you for your generous offer: if anyone wishes to contribute, then here is the link. Please mention my name in the reference: www.fli.org.au/defence-fund/
God bless you all.