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Japanese Secret Altar

“Like my Master I shall die upon the cross. Like Him, a lance will pierce my heart so that my blood and my love can flow out upon the land and sanctify it to His name." – St Paul Miki SJ, who was …More
“Like my Master I shall die upon the cross. Like Him, a lance will pierce my heart so that my blood and my love can flow out upon the land and sanctify it to His name." – St Paul Miki SJ, who was martyred at Nagasaki in 1597 with 25 others. Today (6 Feb) is their feast day. This beautiful reredos was hidden in a sideboard which looked like an ordinary piece of domestic furniture when it was closed, but when opened it could be used for the Holy Mass in Japan.
Source: Lawrence OP on Flickr
www.youtube.com/watch
I just watched this movie a month ago
How many of us would willingly and publicly renounce our faith by stamping on a Crucifix or image of The Blessed Mother? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumi-e

Japanese Catholics did this routinely. Something to remember when admiring their "cleverness" at hiding shrines.
This is, simply, a lie. It's calculated that, at least 20 thousand (could have been close to 100 th) japanese died during the 270 odd years of the persecution. During that time, if they were found, they were dead. You bragg about your mental rigor: wikipedia? Really?
Is this the kind of non-research you bring to your classroom, amigo?

Fumi-E is historically incontestable.

Japanese Catholics survived by publicly renouncing their faith and stamping on sacred images of Jesus and the Blessed Mother. Whatever they practiced in "secret" doesn't change what they did in public.

And what proof have YOU supplied disproving the practice? None. Just your big mouth. …More
Is this the kind of non-research you bring to your classroom, amigo?

Fumi-E is historically incontestable.

Japanese Catholics survived by publicly renouncing their faith and stamping on sacred images of Jesus and the Blessed Mother. Whatever they practiced in "secret" doesn't change what they did in public.

And what proof have YOU supplied disproving the practice? None. Just your big mouth. You think Wikipedia is a lie? And the BBC?

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-50414472

And the Encyclopedia Britannica?

www.britannica.com/topic/fumi-e

Art galleries offer them for sale...

www.trocadero.com/…/Bronze-fumi-ebu…

Even Japanese sites cover the subject.

www.nhk.or.jp/…/index.html

"Professor Etica", you are SUCH an idiot. I'd love to know who your family bribed and how much they paid to get you a teaching job. Even so, I feel so bad for your students. :P
What is a lie is not that there were catholics that could not hold the tortures, what is a lie is that it was general, in fact, the martyrs were far more. One thing is that, after subjected to horrible treatment, some denied Jesus; and a very different one is the fact that they hide and resisted and there were a ton of martyrs. If you present only the first part to deny the rest, you are …More
What is a lie is not that there were catholics that could not hold the tortures, what is a lie is that it was general, in fact, the martyrs were far more. One thing is that, after subjected to horrible treatment, some denied Jesus; and a very different one is the fact that they hide and resisted and there were a ton of martyrs. If you present only the first part to deny the rest, you are misrepresenting the reality at hand. And, if you, when someone tells you about it, resort to personal attacks, you disqualify yourself... And, finally, why do you call me "profesor"? Where did you get that?
One more comment from eticacasanova
There you have the canonization of a few hundred. I watched on television that of the 188. I saw the priest that was the proponent of their cause talk about the thousands that were martyred but cannot be taken to the canonization process, due to the fact that they died in a regime that was closed to the world and hostile and all the circumstances that stem from these... Don't insult the person, …More
There you have the canonization of a few hundred. I watched on television that of the 188. I saw the priest that was the proponent of their cause talk about the thousands that were martyred but cannot be taken to the canonization process, due to the fact that they died in a regime that was closed to the world and hostile and all the circumstances that stem from these... Don't insult the person, don't attack the person, that's shameful and has nothing to do with the subject
"What is a lie is not that there were catholics that could not hold the tortures, what is a lie is that it was general..."

Fumi-E was not a "torture", that is the point you are missing.

Fumi-E was a test and it was widespread at "sekisho" or "border checkpoints" used between districts. People had to profane an image of Jesus or The Blessed Mother, nothing more.

There was no "torture", but …More
"What is a lie is not that there were catholics that could not hold the tortures, what is a lie is that it was general..."

Fumi-E was not a "torture", that is the point you are missing.

Fumi-E was a test and it was widespread at "sekisho" or "border checkpoints" used between districts. People had to profane an image of Jesus or The Blessed Mother, nothing more.

There was no "torture", but the test was mandatory.

Now -some- Japanese Christians refused to publicly deny their faith and profane Christ and His Mother. They refused. and they were the ones who were caught and martyred.

The -other- Japanese Christians, the "survivors" who were practicing in secret, also had to take the test.

They publicly denied they were Christians and stamped on pictures of Jesus and the Blessed Mother. They "passed" the Fumi-E test, at the expense of their faith.

www.biblegateway.com/passage/

You do not read English well. The Fumi-E test had nothing to do with what you are talking about... "One thing is that, after subjected to horrible treatment, some denied Jesus..."

People taking the Fumi-E test weren't subjected to "horrible treatment".

All you had to do was deny that you were Christian, stamp on the image of Jesus or Mary, and you were free to go.

Japanese Christians survived in secret because they denied their faith. They denied God and desecrated His image. That is the point.

Your Japanese Catholic site does not even mention Fumi-E or how Japanese Catholics "passed" that test. No surprises.

"And, if you, when someone tells you about it, resort to personal attacks, you disqualify yourself."

You forget that you ended your first reply with the following personal attack: "You bragg about your mental rigor: wikipedia? Really?"

You have no right to complain about "personal attacks" when your first reply contains one!
When one say that a STATEMENT is a lie, one is talking about a statement, not a person, a person cannot be a lie. Maybe you can't understand that
I understand the difference between "statement" and "person."

Quote me where I said a person can be (or was) a lie, since that is what you are "correcting".

In truth, it would be simpler if you just admitted you did not understand what Fumi-E was, how it was used, and you were criticizing me for no good reason.
Oh, really? Where did I personally attacked you, then? show me the passage of this thread where I attacked you personally. After you fail at that, all your bs will fall with it... and with your own personal attacks and yiur justification for them
And yes, I set you up!!! And you fell right ehere I wanted you... Let me explain it, so you can see where: I told you about the difference between statements and persons and the lie s... You didn't realize why I said that, as expected and as your answer showd. It was because you said that, ujuuujuuu, I attacked you first. And mo, my first "line" was that the mass apostasy of japanese was a lie: …More
And yes, I set you up!!! And you fell right ehere I wanted you... Let me explain it, so you can see where: I told you about the difference between statements and persons and the lie s... You didn't realize why I said that, as expected and as your answer showd. It was because you said that, ujuuujuuu, I attacked you first. And mo, my first "line" was that the mass apostasy of japanese was a lie: that's about a statement, not about you. You could have been, as the person you are (now I'm talking about you, but only here: it's not interesting), talking about Columbus and the flat earth, or about the "scientific revolution", or the crusades were for converting peoples by force, the genocidal Inquisition, or about Pius XII as Hitler's pope, the Spanish genocide of the New World and all those stories of the black diabolical and stupid legend: all of then lies that are widely believed nowadays. You didn't invent any of them, but you, as any other gullible person could believe such blatant lies: after all, your teacher, the movies, the periodical publications repeat the lies constantly. You could be propagating them "not-in-bad-faith"... But you say I insulted you........... You fell, my boy.... And I set you up...
"show me the passage of this thread where I attacked you personally"

...because I just quoted it once before and you ignored it, correct? You need it quoted AGAIN.

You forget that you ended your first reply with the following personal attack: "You bragg about your mental rigor: wikipedia? Really?"

For man who says, "show me the passage where of this thread." why can't YOU show where I …More
"show me the passage of this thread where I attacked you personally"

...because I just quoted it once before and you ignored it, correct? You need it quoted AGAIN.

You forget that you ended your first reply with the following personal attack: "You bragg about your mental rigor: wikipedia? Really?"

For man who says, "show me the passage where of this thread." why can't YOU show where I supposedly said a person is a lie, like YOU claimed?

You drop these accusations like a dog drops filth and then just like a dog, you walk away from them and start barking about something else.

Once again, another fascinating thread on GTV goes right into the toilet, thanks to you.

First you misread what was said because English is not your first language.

Second, since I wrote it, of course, you have to make some nasty attack about "you bragg about your mental rigor.." and criticize the source of my information.

Let us remember here, this is all because YOU made a mistake about Fumi-E involving torture.

Third, I correct your misunderstanding. There is nothing "BS" except you can't read English well and then you say stupid things because you did not understand what was written.

Fourth, instead of showing ANY courtesy, oh, no. That is too much for you. Now you complain that YOU are the victim and all the history that corrected you is "BS".

I wonder how long it takes before you write some real "BS" that what you said wasn't truly a personal attack becuase... (excuse, excuse, lie, more excuses, more lies)

...because if I ever said anything about you bragging about your mental rigor. you would moan like a goat in the rain how I was attacking you! Double-standards! Etica says whatever he wants whenever he wants. Anyone else does the same, they are attacking him. Boo-hoo-hoo. :P
Oh, that's a personal attack, saying that your source is faulty and that's not propper of your highness... give me a break, that reminds me that time that I told you you were not a good counterpart in a discussion, because you were looking not for arguments and their merits but for supposed fallacies [pretty stupid, by the way, shamefull, even] and because you flatly denied or ignored what you …More
Oh, that's a personal attack, saying that your source is faulty and that's not propper of your highness... give me a break, that reminds me that time that I told you you were not a good counterpart in a discussion, because you were looking not for arguments and their merits but for supposed fallacies [pretty stupid, by the way, shamefull, even] and because you flatly denied or ignored what you counterpart told you, and you told me that my argument, ABOUT WHY YOU WEREN'T SOMEONE TO DISCUSS WITH!!!!!!! was an ad hominem, give me a break!!!!!!! That's beyond crazy and with an infantile conviction that the rest of humanity is nothing but a bunch of idiots. Saying that wikipedia is no source for historical search, much less if it's about the Church, is no personal attack. What a shame, kid, and ppppppleasssseeee, don't respond with a shameful answer. I value you, the other day I tried to show you that I have no resentmert or any other bad feeling against you, but you crushed all that with this, let's behave like people. If I tell you that wikipedia is no source, you don't respond with an outburst of vitriol about me being a professor, it's disproportionate and shamefull. Peace!!!!
"Oh, that's a personal attack, saying that your source is faulty and that's not propper of your highness... give me a break"

If I said the same thing about you, it would not be "give me a break". You would start complaining about "vitriol".

You are like many people. You throw verbal punches without a second thought, but you can't take them very well.

First, you made that stupid comment about "…More
"Oh, that's a personal attack, saying that your source is faulty and that's not propper of your highness... give me a break"

If I said the same thing about you, it would not be "give me a break". You would start complaining about "vitriol".

You are like many people. You throw verbal punches without a second thought, but you can't take them very well.

First, you made that stupid comment about "mental rigor". That is a personal attack and you well know it.

Second, my source was not faulty and my comments were correct. YOU just did not read them correctly.

"that reminds me that time that I told you you were..."

I don't really care what anything "reminds" you of. The facts are simple.

1.) You misread the information and got the wrong idea.

2.) You do not like me and you jumped at the chance to correct me AND make a personal attack.

3.) I corrected you on 1.) and that hurt your pride.

4.) You are a hypocrite because you complain about personal attacks after YOU started making them.

5.) When you are forced to recognize 1.) to 4.) you get angry and your English becomes nearly incomprehensible.

"That's beyond crazy and with an infantile conviction that the rest of humanity is nothing but a bunch of idiots."

But I don't have a conviction "the rest of humanity is nothing but a bunch of idiots"

I have a conviction YOU are nothing but an idiot. :D

....and you just got through proving that conviction is true.

"Saying that wikipedia is no source for historical search, much less if it's about the Church, is no personal attack."

I did not list that as personal attack. I quoted your attack and, just as I said you would, now you are making excuses. Saying wikipedia is no source for historical information is a.) factually wrong b.) no reason for your correction

Wikipedia is as good as any source, and probably better than most. If YOU feel it is inaccurate, then YOU must prove something is wrong and use more than just your big dumb mouth.
Bah!!! The impossible. You discuss to annoy, that's not very edifying, so not about to that....
God bless you
Survival strategy! Super!