06:48

MEDUGORJE

Beautiful Music video capturing the Spirit of Medugorje
Gertrude Hubertine shares this.
Merci Dieu de nous avoir Vierge Marie et Medugorje
Lionel Andrades
Monday, August 29, 2011

MEDUGORJE CONTRADICTS VATICAN COUNCIL II

Franciscan priests approve messages of visionaries before public announcement: Lumen Gentium 14, Ad Gentes 7 indicates Catholic Faith and the baptism of water is the ordinary way of salvation for all, while Vicka says most people go to Heaven and Marija recommends a book which states the opposite. The book recommended by …More
Monday, August 29, 2011

MEDUGORJE CONTRADICTS VATICAN COUNCIL II

Franciscan priests approve messages of visionaries before public announcement: Lumen Gentium 14, Ad Gentes 7 indicates Catholic Faith and the baptism of water is the ordinary way of salvation for all, while Vicka says most people go to Heaven and Marija recommends a book which states the opposite. The book recommended by Our Lady to Marija affirms the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was interpreted for centuries.

I personally believe that Our Lady is present in Medugorje in a very special way. I would recommend that Catholics make a private pilgrimage, attend Mass at the Church , and be part of the prayers, even if you do not meet the visionaries. I have been there twice. I have also read The Poem of the Man God by Maria Valtorta.

I was there when Fr. Slavko Barbaric OFM was present and made time to talk with me often. He was the Spiritual Director of the visionaries. I know that the visionaries later had different Spiritual Directors who would approve the messages of Our Lady before they were announced publicly. In Medugorje, personal questions are asked of Our Lady but the answers are not always made public.

The visionaries love the Church and are faithful to the teaching of the Church as explained to them by the Franciscan priests.

May be the system has changed since sometime back I saw on You tube a film of Mirjana receiving a message from Our Lady. She wrote it down immediately and it was announced in public. There was no priest there.

Vicka, one of the visionaries who has been shown Heaven and Hell by Our Lady, said that Our Lady told here that most people go to Heaven and few go to Hell.

This contradicts Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14), the ex cathedra dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence and the Bible. Jesus says the road to Hell is wide and most people take it so enter through the narrow gate. Jesus also aks us to proclaim the Good News and the person who does not believe in it will be condemned (Mk.16:16).John 3:5 says every one needs the Baptism of water for salvation and we know the Eucharist is needed by all for salvation in John Chapter 6.

Most people in the world are not baptized with water and do not have access to the Sacraments, especially the Eucharist yet Vicka says most people go to Heaven. Millions of people know about Jesus and the Church through education and world wide communications. They are oriented to Hell according to Vatican Council II (AG 7).

Vicka also contradicts Vatican Council II (LG 14, AG 7) which indicates that the ordinary way of salvation for all people is Catholic Faith and the baptism of water. This means non Catholics, without the Sacraments, in general are oriented to Hell at the time of death. This teaching is not contradicted by Lumen Gentium 16 on invincible ignorance and a good conscience.This is how the liberals and secular media interprets it.

The traditional teaching for centuries has been everyone with no exception needs to be an explicit, visible member of the Catholic Church to avoid Hell.

The Catholic Church still teaches that the ordinary means of salvation are not other religions. (Redemptoris Missio 55)

Non Catholics can be saved with the baptism of desire ‘in certain circumstances’ (Letter of the Holy Office 1949). The baptism of desire is not the ordinary means of salvation. Implicit salvation i.e. those saved with a good conscience, invincible ignorance etc, is known only to God – and since everyone needs Catholic Faith and the baptism of water to be saved, millions of non Catholics are oriented to Hell, they are on the way to Hell at the time of death. If there are any exceptions among them it would be known to God, however in general they would be lost eternally.

The road to Hell is wide and most people take it says Jesus. The saints also say that most people go to Hell e.g. St. Louis di Montfort. Non Catholics need to convert to avoid the fires of Hell says the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, Cantate Domino, Council of Florence.Vicka’s message contradicts this dogma which has been thrice defined by Church Councils, ex cathedra.

It also contradicts Dominus Iesus 20 which states salvation is open to all people but to receive it all need to enter the Church.

Similarly the Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water. All need to enter the Church as through a door (CCC 846).God the Father wants all people to be united in the Catholic Church which is the only Ark of Noah that saves in the Flood.

CCC 1257 mentions that God is not restricted to the Sacraments. There can be non Catholics saved with the baptism of desire, a good conscience, invincible ignorance and they would not be known to us. Since they would be known only to God it is possible in the present times, there may not be a single case. We don’t know.

However in principle (de jure) we accept the possibility of these exceptions; implicit salvation. De facto, in reality, we know that everyone needs Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.

De jure, in principle we know that all those who are saved, are saved through Jesus and the Church. De facto we know, every one on earth needs the ordinary means of salvation. We cannot meet anyone on earth who is an exception to the ordinary means of salvation.

Vicka’s message not only contradicts the official teaching of the Catholic Church, according to Magisterial texts, including that of Pope John Paul II ( Redemptoris Missio, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Dominus Iesus, CDF Notification on Fr. Jacques Dupuis S.J etc) but Vicka also contradicts a message received by Marija, the other visionary.

Marija’s message was well known among Medugorje pilgrims and was mentioned in books on Medugorje and articles in publications approved at Medugorje.

Our Lady reportedly told Marija to read The Poem of the Man God by Maria Valtorta. Our Lady said this book would help Marija know about the childhood of the Blessed Mother.

A Croatian priest in Medugorje was critical of this book at a meeting of pilgrims where I was present too. The priest, who later left for the USA, was also critical of the apparitions of Our Lady at Medugorje.

It seemed as if at that time there was a tussle between two groups, two views, regarding this particular book and this message. The Poem of the Man God was reportedly placed on the Index but then removed. The Italian Catholic Bishops Conference has approved this book for Catholics. They found nothing in it contrary to the faith.

A lay spokesman for Medugorje, whom I contacted via e-mail, now denies that Our Lady recommended The Poem, of the Man Godto Marija. So a decision was made by the Franciscans? They have ‘cancelled’ that message?

The Poem of the Man God affirms the teaching of Vatican Council II and the dogma Cantate Domino. So was Marija’s message cancelled to appear ‘in conformity with the teachings of the Church’ as understood by Catholic liberals and the secular media?

Venerable Pope Pius XII refers to ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible teaching’ (Letter of the Holy Office 1949). No where in this Letter is it said that Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston was excommunicated for heresy as the secular media allege. He was excommunicated for disobedience. The excommunication was lifted without him having to recant his teaching on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Also how could he be excommunicated for saying everyone needs to be a visible member of the Catholic Church for salvation when this is exactly what the text of the dogma states. The popes and saints also said that everyone needed to be a formal, visible member of the Church.

How can non Catholics saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance be an exception to the dogma, as liberal Catholics allege? We do not know any case of someone saved implicitly with the baptism of desire etc.

So was Vicka’s message for the Franciscans and others, a politically correct one?
-Lionel Andrades
E-mail: lionelandrades10@gmail.com
Blog: eucharistandmission.blogspot.com
YouTube: it.youtube.com/LionelAndrades

eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/…/medugorje-contr…
Philomène
MERCI à Dieu de nous avoir donné Medjugorje !
Ce lieu béni m'a permis de retrouver la foi catholique !
ALLELUIA !
Vierge Marie de Medjugorje protégez-nous !
willyfr
what I think of Medj is :
seanie
@Life resource: yes, the fruit of disobedience. The fruit of pregnant nuns. The fruit of religiously indifferent messages.

It would be profitable to bear in mind the case of Magdalen of the Cross, a 13th century Franciscan to whom at the age of 13 the devil appeared and promised her the outward appearance of sanctity, in order to gain her soul. For decades this woman deceived countless, members …More
@Life resource: yes, the fruit of disobedience. The fruit of pregnant nuns. The fruit of religiously indifferent messages.

It would be profitable to bear in mind the case of Magdalen of the Cross, a 13th century Franciscan to whom at the age of 13 the devil appeared and promised her the outward appearance of sanctity, in order to gain her soul. For decades this woman deceived countless, members of the court, clergy, with her supposed sanctity, until nearing death, she made a full confession and was exorcised.

You see, the devil did not care how many people were converted though her outward show of sanctity, *****as long as he could have HER soul****.

Sound familiar?

By the way, the Bishop of Mostar continues to have jurisdiction in his diocese. It is merely the investigation which is not in his hands.
lynnieko
Lukas,
Just a quick reminder, Medjugorje has been taken out of the hands of the Bishop of Mostar and is now in the hands of the Vatican. Also no appariton has been approved while it was still going on. The Church standing has been to wait until the apparations/messages have stopped before they approve of an apparaition. If an apparition goes against Church doctrine, they can condem it in a heart …More
Lukas,
Just a quick reminder, Medjugorje has been taken out of the hands of the Bishop of Mostar and is now in the hands of the Vatican. Also no appariton has been approved while it was still going on. The Church standing has been to wait until the apparations/messages have stopped before they approve of an apparaition. If an apparition goes against Church doctrine, they can condem it in a heart beat.
maxtmh
Thank God for Medjugorje and the opportunity & grace He is offering to us by sending His mother one last time.

I was a lapsed Catholic before I went. Not anymore . Ck out the testimonies section of www.mirmedjugorje.org
Life resource
You will know them by the fruit they bear.

The devil does not convert anybody. VRS NSMV SMQL IVB
richinmercy
Help!! is there anyone out there who can support my views that the events taking place in Medugorje are Blessed and genuine??
seanie
The "spirit" of Medjugorje is the spirit of prideful disobedience to lawful superiors.

The Bishop of Mostar, who has authority from God to rule his diocese, told the alleged "visionaries" to stop spreading their messages They did not.

Contrast this with the case of te glorious virgin Saint Gemma Galgani, who, when her confessor told her he did not want her to exhibit the stigmata any further, …More
The "spirit" of Medjugorje is the spirit of prideful disobedience to lawful superiors.

The Bishop of Mostar, who has authority from God to rule his diocese, told the alleged "visionaries" to stop spreading their messages They did not.

Contrast this with the case of te glorious virgin Saint Gemma Galgani, who, when her confessor told her he did not want her to exhibit the stigmata any further, asked Jesus to take them away. And He did.

If the Medjugorje "visionaries" were indeed genuine, they would at least be disobedient.
lukasgodfrey
Sorry the edited line should be "...but that does not mean the sightings are genuine"
lukasgodfrey
Medugorje may have been responsible for mass conversions, but that does not mean the sightings of the proclaimed "seers" are hoaxes. It is also well-documented that some of its caretakers and "seers" have profited financially from pilgrims. Lets us also not forget that the Church has never accepted the sightings and visions as genuine.
richinmercy
I have to absolutely dispute your comments.Medugorje has been the cause of thousands of genuine conversions and many documented miracles.Time will prove the authenticity of the events taking place there.
lukasgodfrey
Vatikan prüft Geschehen in Medjugorje

Sarajevo (DT/KNA) Der Vatikan hat eine Untersuchungskommission zur Prüfung der mutmaßlichen Marienerscheinungen von Medjugorje eingesetzt. Entsprechende Berichte bosnischer Medien bestätigte der katholische Erzbischof von Sarajevo, Kardinal Vinko Puljic. Zum ersten Mal werde damit eine offizielle vatikanische Kommission den herzegowinischen Pilgerort …More
Vatikan prüft Geschehen in Medjugorje

Sarajevo (DT/KNA) Der Vatikan hat eine Untersuchungskommission zur Prüfung der mutmaßlichen Marienerscheinungen von Medjugorje eingesetzt. Entsprechende Berichte bosnischer Medien bestätigte der katholische Erzbischof von Sarajevo, Kardinal Vinko Puljic. Zum ersten Mal werde damit eine offizielle vatikanische Kommission den herzegowinischen Pilgerort aufsuchen. Das Gremium werde sowohl die Erscheinungen als auch die seelsorgerische Arbeit der in Medjugorje tätigen Priester analysieren. Der Erzbischof von Sarajevo hat in der Vergangenheit mehrfach versucht, im Konflikt zwischen dem Bischof von Mostar und den Franziskanern von Medjugorje zu vermitteln. Die Auseinandersetzung hat tiefe historische Wurzeln. Die Beurteilung der mutmaßlichen Marienerscheinungen, über die seit dem 24. Juni 1981 Berichte vorliegen, wurde in diesen Konflikt einbezogen. Die Diözese Mostar sowie die damalige Jugoslawische Bischofskonferenz hatten in früheren Jahren negative Voten zu den Vorgängen abgegeben.
...mehr
DT vom 10.07.2008
lukasgodfrey
Medugorje is a hoax. Catholics around the world must come to their senses and heed the warnings of the Magisterium and Bishop Ratko Perić.

More info: www.mdaviesonmedj.com/page_lateststatement.htm