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Assault on Archbishop of Brussels/ Mechelen

Tesa
41
Shameful physical assault on Archbishop of Brussels/ Mechelen
Kuchen für den Bischof... Skandal! If you read some Spanish, please read this. Kuchen für den Bischof... keine Ursache wenn sonst... www.zenit.org/article-39168
holyrope 3
Agree Cannoli...
Holy Cannoli
Rope,


There is another phenomenon at work here that (without mentioning names) I've seen occur several times at gloria.tv and at numerous other places on the internet. That is the open manifestation of ego, pride, the lack of humility and self-absorption. Basically, it is demonstrated by the absolute unwillingness of an individual to acknowledge the fact that he/she can be mistaken …More
Rope,


There is another phenomenon at work here that (without mentioning names) I've seen occur several times at gloria.tv and at numerous other places on the internet. That is the open manifestation of ego, pride, the lack of humility and self-absorption. Basically, it is demonstrated by the absolute unwillingness of an individual to acknowledge the fact that he/she can be mistaken about one thing or another. There are psychological reasons for this but, for now, I would simply prefer to say that this kind of immaturity is unbecoming for anyone especially for those of us who profess to follow the One who said, "Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; and you shall find rest for your souls.”

Certainly, there is a time for gentleness and there is a time for militancy as we've talked about with respect to the assault on the Archbishop. In any case, “man up” and have the internal self-confidence to be able to say “I may be mistaken in my opinion” or “I see what you mean” or, if one is unable to publicly admit error or if (in spite of evidence to the contrary) one is still sure of one's position, at the very least be an adult and have the courage to say, “let's agree to disagree.”

What do you think, Rope?
holyrope 3
Holy Cannoli
Interesting analysis, Rope.



it would certainly portray him for who he really is.

What would that be?

holyrope 3
Because he knows if he held his same position in regards to his Excellency, with that of it being his mother or child, it would certainly portray him for who he really is. On the other hand, say if he would show some hair on his backbone and did go after the perpetrator who caused harm to his family it would show him as a plain hypocrite. So, guess either way,.... he's a Big loser.
Holy Cannoli
Rope,

You asked a fair question but ACL does not want to answer.
What could be the reason for his refusal?

ACLumsden
@EJG - I do not place internet resources above the hard copy library Book resource. And while the uploaded versions you site are exact, one canot draw upon New Advent as ones only source of information or in fact, internet resources in general. I consider this 'lazy' research and quite inconsequntial.
@Rope - What on earth are you on about?? Your question is inappropriate; as I said, that is not …More
@EJG - I do not place internet resources above the hard copy library Book resource. And while the uploaded versions you site are exact, one canot draw upon New Advent as ones only source of information or in fact, internet resources in general. I consider this 'lazy' research and quite inconsequntial.
@Rope - What on earth are you on about?? Your question is inappropriate; as I said, that is not the issue!
holyrope 3
ACL...You still have not given a response to my post/question.

Again, ...
If your mother or child were assaulted, would you have the same attitude and approach as with his Excellency?
Josephus...das ist doch unser Werk!
GTV kann da nix dafür...es lässt die "Taten" seiner User so stehen, irgendwie wird uns da der Spiegel vorgehalten!
ACLumsden
@Cannoli: Go to the library and look up : Fortescue, Adrian (1934). Ceremonies of the Roman Rite Described. Burns, Oates & Washbourne ltd; 5th ed edition.
Iosephus Venator
Unfreiwillige Komik auf GloriaTV:
Als ersten Beitrag unter der Rubrik "gern gesehen" findet man ein Video mit dem Titel: "Torte ins Gesicht für Bischof Leonard"
Sehr lustig!
ACLumsden
None online mate! lol You'll have to get yourself into a real library! But lets leave this at it is because it is quite trite and not worth the continuous banter. Do have a good evening.
EJGCatholic
um ya,ACLumsden you are incorrect about New Advent.it is a proper resource for pre-concillar church approved published online books. i wouldnt ever compare the New Advent site in general or the 'old' Catholic Encyclopedia specifically at all to Wikipedia. New Advent just took the ENTIRE 1912/1917 Church approved print version 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia and just published it online (along …More
um ya,ACLumsden you are incorrect about New Advent.it is a proper resource for pre-concillar church approved published online books. i wouldnt ever compare the New Advent site in general or the 'old' Catholic Encyclopedia specifically at all to Wikipedia. New Advent just took the ENTIRE 1912/1917 Church approved print version 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia and just published it online (along with old editions of the Summa and Church Fathers and Bible,)we have the exact same Catholic Encyclopedia in like 17? volumes up in our Seminary and its EXACTLY the same as the New Advent online version. PLus one cant add or change things on New Advent site as one can in Wikipedia.The same version and subsequent later ' new' editions were published by the Catholic University of America. New Advent has just unaltered online versions of older (passed the copyright) of classic catholic work,( thus, of course lacking post-conciliar documents and newer Code of Canon law contexts)some qoutes then may be outdated or changed since the Reign of Pius X however.).you can also see the 1913 version scanned on Google Books.
PAX ps so like you cant take documents form vatican.va for example,or scanned books?as trustworthy because its not a print version from the bookstore in your hand?/ (i agree one must be cautious and aware of online sources, and fact check though)
Holy Cannoli
So, ACL doesn't approve of the basic yet worthy Catholic research tool called the “Catholic Encyclopedia” from New Advent because it proves him to be mistaken on a basic point of nomenclature? LOL
I suppose you will also reject the identical answer given from another Catholic internet site, again, because that answer proves you to be mistaken.

Re: How do I address a bishop?
In spoken conversatio…More
So, ACL doesn't approve of the basic yet worthy Catholic research tool called the “Catholic Encyclopedia” from New Advent because it proves him to be mistaken on a basic point of nomenclature? LOL
I suppose you will also reject the identical answer given from another Catholic internet site, again, because that answer proves you to be mistaken.

Re: How do I address a bishop?
In spoken conversation, you would call your bishop "Bishop (last name)" or "Your Excellency." In opening a letter, you would put "Dear Bishop (last name)" or "Your Excellency" ("Dear" is not used in front of "Your [title]"). In addressing an envelope you would put on the first line "The Most Rev. (full name)" and on the second line "Bishop of (diocese)."

Archbishops follow the same protocol as bishops. Cardinals are addressed as "Cardinal (last name)" or "Your Eminence." Letters to cardinals open "Dear Cardinal (last name)" or "Your Eminence." In addressing the envelope the first line would read "(first name) Cardinal (last name)" or "Cardinal (full name)"; the second line would read "Archbishop (or Bishop) of (archdiocese or diocese)."


forums.catholic.com/showthread.php

ACL, perhaps you can site an authentic Catholic resource that would substantiate your erroneous claim that "His Excellency", in traditional prelate nomenclature, refers to a Cardinal.”

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ACL writes: So, do get some travelling done, see the world, and then maybe you can know something.

If traveling would mean that I would be as poorly informed about matters Catholic as you obviously are, then I would prefer to stay in my cave.

In truth, I have done a bit of traveling and I've seen enough of the world to know that I never want to set foot on the foggy wasteland called Britain. Besides, I'm afraid I would not be able to tolerate the pretensions, pacifist, pansies who reside in that sissified country.

Holy Cannoli bids you, ACL, a wonderful day/afternoon/evening from the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.

ACLumsden
Ah.....Cannoli, how easy it is to get information online. It seems that you don't do much good research (are you a shut-in perhapse?). "New Advent" site is a little like "Wikipedia.com" which any good scholar will call "Wickedpedia.com"! It is filled with half truths and unsubstantiated claims. DO go to your nearest RC library and look up protocol for Roman Clergy in Europe and her Colonies. I …More
Ah.....Cannoli, how easy it is to get information online. It seems that you don't do much good research (are you a shut-in perhapse?). "New Advent" site is a little like "Wikipedia.com" which any good scholar will call "Wickedpedia.com"! It is filled with half truths and unsubstantiated claims. DO go to your nearest RC library and look up protocol for Roman Clergy in Europe and her Colonies. I think you'll find that the USA is quite odd (since on the whole, you chaps are not monachists!).

So, do get some travelling done, see the world, and then maybe you can know something. One can not sit in the USA, and presume to know (from internet sites...lol). Do some travelling man - open your mind somewhat. Take care mate!
Holy Cannoli
We do seem not to be understanding each other here.
How true!

"His Excellency", in traditional prelate nomenclature, refers to a Cardinal.
How false!

When making an assertion, it's wise to check your facts before posting. This is especially true when you are attempting to correct another poster.



----------------------------------------
English-speaking countries

"The Catholic Dire…More
We do seem not to be understanding each other here.
How true!

"His Excellency", in traditional prelate nomenclature, refers to a Cardinal.
How false!

When making an assertion, it's wise to check your facts before posting. This is especially true when you are attempting to correct another poster.



----------------------------------------
English-speaking countries

"The Catholic Directory" (London, 1906) gives the following brief directions for forms of address, which, with the slight exceptions noted, may be safely taken as representing the best custom of the United States, the British Isles, Canada, Australia, and the British colonies in general:
"CARDINALS. His Eminence Cardinal . . . If he is also an Archbishop: His Eminence the Cardinal Archbishop of . . . ; or His Eminence Cardinal . . ., Archbishop of . . . ; [to begin a letter] My Lord Cardinal, or My Lord; Your Eminence.

www.newadvent.org/cathen/01137a.htm

-------------------------------------------------------

Arrivederci ACL and, in spite of our disagreements, I would like to give you a parting bit of advice. Remember to always keep in mind one thing. If it wasn't for the Yanks, you would be posting on the German side of gloria.tv.

ACLumsden
We do seem not to be understanding each other here. Therefore, of your charity, I bow out of this pointless discussion. Not well: "His Excellency", in traditional prelate nomenclature, refers to a Cardinal. The correct address for an Archbishop is "Your Grace" or in the passive "His Grace; for a Bishop it is "My Lord" or in the passive "His Lordship". Take care dear friends.
holyrope 3
ACL..... If your mother or child was assaulted, would you have the same attitude and approach as with his Excellency?
Holy Cannoli
Therefore, leave to God the retribution, and take care of the injured!

So then, it's open season on Catholic clergy? If you disagree with a cleric, stuff a pie in his face. You will escape and there will be no consequences to your action.

I'm afraid not. Permitting these kinds of actions, without seeking justice, is the message that will be sent to like minded degenerates who then will be …More
Therefore, leave to God the retribution, and take care of the injured!

So then, it's open season on Catholic clergy? If you disagree with a cleric, stuff a pie in his face. You will escape and there will be no consequences to your action.

I'm afraid not. Permitting these kinds of actions, without seeking justice, is the message that will be sent to like minded degenerates who then will be emboldened to commit even more acts of terrorism on the clergy. Is that the kind of behavior which should be encouraged?

One shouldn't have to consult their Catechism or Sacred Scripture when the issue being considered is a matter of respect for the rights and dignity of others. If one commits a crime, as in this case, expect to suffer the consequences.

Retribution? No.
Justice? Yes.

So ACL, would you rush to the nearest piano and play His Excellency a Mozart Rondo to cheer him up after the assault?

www.youtube.com/watch

ACLumsden
@Rope and Cannoli: Gosh... I know not of what you speak. However, again you chaps deviate: I said I will take care of His Grace. Now, in traditional circles "His Grace" is the proper referal to an Archbishop. I do not know if this has been kept accross the pond in the USA.... The assailant will be dealt with, for "touch thou not the Lord's annointed" (2Kings). Therefore, leave to God the …More
@Rope and Cannoli: Gosh... I know not of what you speak. However, again you chaps deviate: I said I will take care of His Grace. Now, in traditional circles "His Grace" is the proper referal to an Archbishop. I do not know if this has been kept accross the pond in the USA.... The assailant will be dealt with, for "touch thou not the Lord's annointed" (2Kings). Therefore, leave to God the retribution, and take care of the injured!
holyrope 3
Cannoli.... keep your cell phone, I know you could handle the job.
Holy Cannoli
"side-tracked"

Indeed!

Is this video about some criminal who disrepsects and assaults a Catholic prelate inside a Church or is it about some leftist Belgian loon who tries to defend the malefactor?

ACL wrote: The Church, while being universal, is run by human beings; people who are sometimes in grave error!

Irrelevant to the video. There is NO excuse for the actions of the perpetrator or …More
"side-tracked"

Indeed!

Is this video about some criminal who disrepsects and assaults a Catholic prelate inside a Church or is it about some leftist Belgian loon who tries to defend the malefactor?

ACL wrote: The Church, while being universal, is run by human beings; people who are sometimes in grave error!

Irrelevant to the video. There is NO excuse for the actions of the perpetrator or for his/her apologists. Save the attacks-- hopefully limited to verbal attacks -- on clerics (justified in some cases) for an appropriate time and place.

Do take care not to project you own experience of Church onto others.

As I wrote earlier: Common sense, common courtesy and common decency are universal concepts not limited by time, borders or the belief in God.

ACLumsden
@holyrope - Oh dear.....you keep getting side-tracked! The issue was had nothing to do with what you and Cannoli have embarked upon. My original comment was to call your attention to your caustic remark to Odin the Belgian, who, unlike you chaps over in the USA, live in a very extreme left-wing ecclesial environment. Do take care not to project you own experience of Church onto others. The …More
@holyrope - Oh dear.....you keep getting side-tracked! The issue was had nothing to do with what you and Cannoli have embarked upon. My original comment was to call your attention to your caustic remark to Odin the Belgian, who, unlike you chaps over in the USA, live in a very extreme left-wing ecclesial environment. Do take care not to project you own experience of Church onto others. The Church, while being universal, is run by human beings; people who are sometimes in grave error! Put yourselves in their shoes and try to see their point of view - from their cultural perspective.
Holy Cannoli
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. If there are no consequences to evil actions, would not more of those actions occur with progressively greater ferocity?

Incivility, disrespect, assault, and profaning a holy place are not concepts requiring advanced degrees in ethics to know they are unacceptable in a civilized society. In essence, this is not a “Catholic”…More
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. If there are no consequences to evil actions, would not more of those actions occur with progressively greater ferocity?

Incivility, disrespect, assault, and profaning a holy place are not concepts requiring advanced degrees in ethics to know they are unacceptable in a civilized society. In essence, this is not a “Catholic” issue. Common sense, common courtesy and common decency are universal concepts not limited by time, borders or the belief in God.

Personality and background play a major role in how each of us individually would respond in these kinds of uncomfortable/stressful situations. Most would be frozen and would watch choosing not to get involved except, perhaps, to call for help. Very, very few would intervene in a moment of crisis when possible injury to oneself might occur. We call those few, bold, self-sacrificing people “Heroes.”

Don't worry, Rope.
If I witnessed someone beating the pulp out of you, I would, most likely :-), intervene on your behalf and would give my cellphone to ACL and ask him to call the police.

holyrope 3
"evil does not deserve attention"

Well if I would ever get mugged or beaten on the street, I sure hope your not the only one witnessing it.

Your response is exactly what I thought it would be.
ACLumsden
I would have done nothing with respect to the assailant; evil does not deserve attention. My attention would be on His Grace and his safety.

Now, subjectively speaking, right and wrong are not as clinically devisible as you might suggest. You might be clear in your mind what this is, but sadly, due to social conditioning, tis not this clear for others - especially in Belgium (having given a …More
I would have done nothing with respect to the assailant; evil does not deserve attention. My attention would be on His Grace and his safety.

Now, subjectively speaking, right and wrong are not as clinically devisible as you might suggest. You might be clear in your mind what this is, but sadly, due to social conditioning, tis not this clear for others - especially in Belgium (having given a few organ recitals there myself!). Things are worse there than they are in the USA.
holyrope 3
ACLumsden...Is Holy Scripture different in Belgium than anywhere else? The Catholic faith is Universal, not regional; and it's Not pick n choose.

One doesn't have to be Roman Catholic to know that homosexuality is abnormal. Either be Catholic or leave it.

Guess you haven't had much experience with liberals on a one to one basis ACL....... Odin knows best and neither you nor I could …More
ACLumsden...Is Holy Scripture different in Belgium than anywhere else? The Catholic faith is Universal, not regional; and it's Not pick n choose.

One doesn't have to be Roman Catholic to know that homosexuality is abnormal. Either be Catholic or leave it.

Guess you haven't had much experience with liberals on a one to one basis ACL....... Odin knows best and neither you nor I could educate him because he doesn't want to be "educated" in the true Catholic faith. The Bible is antiquated and no one knows more than he/she/it does.

ACL...what would you have done (if anything), were you to be present during this evil assault?
ACLumsden
@holyrope 3 - Odin is Belgian; the church there is UBER-liberal. Therefore, it stands to reason that Odin is just influenced by his unfortunate culture AND that of the Church there. Maybe a little teaching might be in order? Let Odin know HOW and WHY homosexuality is wrong..... don't just slam him!! Tis not Christian to do so....
holyrope 3
Odin....

Holy Scripture states homosexuality is an abomination, a Perversion and Unnatural. Evidently, you don't care what Scripture has to say.

"common sense says it's just a way of life"

Whose? yours?

Go pick some coconuts, and don't try pushing your libtard beliefs around here.
Holy Cannoli
@Correctie


Thank you for the clarification. You wrote:

When I read your comment it is obvious that you only read the newspapers whitout doing some deeper research.

Unfortunately, online newspapers and reports are all that some of us have for research although a more thorough study is always a good policy to follow. This is especially important when dealing with these kinds of …More
@Correctie


Thank you for the clarification. You wrote:

When I read your comment it is obvious that you only read the newspapers whitout doing some deeper research.

Unfortunately, online newspapers and reports are all that some of us have for research although a more thorough study is always a good policy to follow. This is especially important when dealing with these kinds of socially volitile issues where editorial bias and anti-Catholicism frequently appears.

Pax tecum
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If the uncivil actions in this video is now to be considered “harmless protest” by some, what has our civilization come to?

Incidentally, I personally don't care if any of you girly-men apologists for this assult are from Belgium, Barcelona or Bucharest. If a sacrilege such as this were to occur in my presence, I personally would demonstrate the meaning of “counter protest” by swiftly slapping the “hell” out of the perpetrator. All done, of course, in the marvelous ecumenical Spirit of Vatican II.

Correctie
I wanted to react to the wrong reporting of the thoughts of Mgr Leonard by Odin.

First of all, the bishop never said that it was a punishement by God...NEVER AT ALL. He declared that it is kind of an immanent justice, not a divine justice, just like getting cancer by smoking habits...that's obvious. If you have a licentious sexual behaviour it is obvious that you could get HIV/AIDS.

He never …More
I wanted to react to the wrong reporting of the thoughts of Mgr Leonard by Odin.

First of all, the bishop never said that it was a punishement by God...NEVER AT ALL. He declared that it is kind of an immanent justice, not a divine justice, just like getting cancer by smoking habits...that's obvious. If you have a licentious sexual behaviour it is obvious that you could get HIV/AIDS.

He never said homosexuality was a disease. He did, indeed, make a comparison with anorexia, but not comparing homosexuality with anorexia, but considering the behaviour we have in both cases. Anorexia is not a normal behaviour, he said, but this doesn't make an anorexia patient abnormal in its own. The same for gays, he said, the behaviour is not the normal one, but this doesn't make them abnormal.

And finally you cheated also on his third quote. He is just wondering if, for old abusers (much more than the 60 years you propose, since the priests he's speaking about are not punishable by law anymore because they comitted these acts too long ago), it is not more usefull to organise a confrontation between the victim and the abuser.

I don't care about all this story, but I think it is important to report everything and completely...with context. When I read your comment it is obvious that you only read the newspapers whitout doing some deeper research...

BE INTELLECTUALY HONEST PLEASE
Latina
na cantate,erst mal den 11.11. abwarten... .freue mich auch,dass die monika wieder da ist,auch wenn wir oberhessen da verhaltener sind.gelle??
cantate
Hurra, hurra, die Monika ist wieder da,
hurra, hurra die Monika ist da!


Nach elf närrischen Tagen ohne sie erschallt der ur-mainzer Ruf:

"Wolle mer se roi losse?" - "Eroi mit re!"

Odin
It's just some cream on his face, this is a harmless protest action. OK, it's not friendly, but that's what protest is about.

Listen, I'm from Belgium and I'm born and raised roman catholic. But if you would know why this had happened you would maybe understand somehow why this person did that ...

All th other Bisshops in Belgium condemn his latest "ideas" ... there's a lot going on ...

The …More
It's just some cream on his face, this is a harmless protest action. OK, it's not friendly, but that's what protest is about.

Listen, I'm from Belgium and I'm born and raised roman catholic. But if you would know why this had happened you would maybe understand somehow why this person did that ...

All th other Bisshops in Belgium condemn his latest "ideas" ... there's a lot going on ...

The latstest Month he declared this:

- he said that Aids is justice by God, a punishment.
- then he said that homosexuality is a disease ... while the world of science and common sense already knows that's it's just a way of life.
AND last but not least, ths may be the reason for throwing the cake: :)

- There have been hundreds of cases of abuse by priests and higher priests of children which came to light the latest year ... the justice department is investigating all cases fully at the moment ...
Now this guy Léonard said the following:
If a priest is like over 60 and already on a pension, this priest shouldn't be punished by the court and shouldn't go to court. :) LOL because these priests are too old :) LOL Like there's an age from crime.
This last could be the reason why people go mad and trow a cake ...

Listen, If you were repeatedly abused when you were young by a priest and now are ready to prosecute the priest ... and now this guy léonard tells in front of the camer they should leave the priests alone ... this produces anger and disgust ...

Léonard his own spokesman quit his job last week just because he thinks this guy Léonard is out his mind. (his words)

Actually, the majority of the people think like this ... don't attack me, I'm just saying, this is they way it is these days ... the (catholic) church, and i mean the people who run it are not popular at all anymore ...

SILENCE IS GOLDEN :)
Holy Cannoli
Aren't bishops supposed to carry a crosier? Excellency, keep it near at all times. Instead of being merely symbolic, it might prove to have a practical
application in guiding a wayward sheep or two.

Acts like this one will embolden other militant disordered Sodomites who will not tolerate any deviation from their professed deviancy. First of all, homilists, in particular, need to be awake and …More
Aren't bishops supposed to carry a crosier? Excellency, keep it near at all times. Instead of being merely symbolic, it might prove to have a practical
application in guiding a wayward sheep or two.

Acts like this one will embolden other militant disordered Sodomites who will not tolerate any deviation from their professed deviancy. First of all, homilists, in particular, need to be awake and aware of their surroundings.
Second, arrange for men from the parish (ideally with military or law enforcement backgrounds) who will act as security during the service or, if necessary, hire private security.

It's a jungle out there and this clip proves it.



Rope:
It may have happened so quickly that it would have been nearly impossilbe to stop the perp unless the attack was anticipated. We don't know how this ended but the offender should not have been allowed to escape.
TES
Oh Lord, forgive us all! I sometimes wonder, how much our Holy Mother must cry, when she sees what's going on in peoples' hearts. Just what can you say to something like that?!?
Monika Elisabeth
Eine unglaubliche Frechheit.

Aber vielleicht hätte diese junge Aktivistin die Torte lieber selber essen sollen - sie wird noch "harte Zeiten" kommen sehen, wo man sich vergeblich nach einem Stück Torte sehnt.
holyrope 3
Bishop Andre-Leonard was previously bishop of Namur.

When asked about his position on homosexuality he described it as abnormal.
As a consequence, he was charged with homophobia under Belgium's 2003 Anti-Discrimination Act, after gay activists have said he sought to "stigmatize" homosexuals.

In April 2009, the Belgian Courts ruled that the bishop's comments were not severe enough to be conside…
More
Bishop Andre-Leonard was previously bishop of Namur.

When asked about his position on homosexuality he described it as abnormal.
As a consequence, he was charged with homophobia under Belgium's 2003 Anti-Discrimination Act, after gay activists have said he sought to "stigmatize" homosexuals.

In April 2009, the Belgian Courts ruled that the bishop's comments were not severe enough to be considered slanderous or discriminatory.

Did this act happen so quickly that no one could have grabbed this punk, or were they afraid? Sadly, I believe we're just seeing the beginning of what is ahead of us.
Jofichtel
Menschen greifen einen Bischof aufgrund von Aussagen tätlich an, aber wenn Christen täglich auf der Welt ermordet werden, schweigen sie. Was für eine heuchlerische Moral.
Holy Cannoli
Where are the ushers?
Where are the courageous Soldiers of Christ in the congregation?

I wonder about you Europeans.