That The Church May Be One. I am proposing two models for true ecuminism here. The primary I call Hiearchic Unity, where the goal is to bring the non Catholic into the fullness of the faith. This is …More
That The Church May Be One.
I am proposing two models for true ecuminism here. The primary I call Hiearchic Unity, where the goal is to bring the non Catholic into the fullness of the faith. This is the best and ultimate model, but it I believe it is possible in this fallen world, to consider another model, and this model is co-operative Ecuminism. This is where we work together on issues we have in common for political expediancy, and unite against the secular world. (This is not a hiearchic unity in any way, just two systems co-operating against a common enemy.) Both models must exist in non-compromising in the truth, that is ecumania.
I am proposing two models for true ecuminism here. The primary I call Hiearchic Unity, where the goal is to bring the non Catholic into the fullness of the faith. This is the best and ultimate model, but it I believe it is possible in this fallen world, to consider another model, and this model is co-operative Ecuminism. This is where we work together on issues we have in common for political expediancy, and unite against the secular world. (This is not a hiearchic unity in any way, just two systems co-operating against a common enemy.) Both models must exist in non-compromising in the truth, that is ecumania.
Miss Maria
- Report
Change comment
Remove comment
Amen Father. Thank you for your words, in a whirlwind of disagreements here lately it is important to remember that we are all brothers and sisters and we must always address and correct eachother in love and always show mercy to eachother. St. John Vianney pray for our priests! May you always be in Our Blessed Mothers' care and protection Father.
Our Lord's Peace Be With You Always,
MariaMore
Our Lord's Peace Be With You Always,
Maria
CathPresbyter
- Report
Change comment
Remove comment
Always wanting her mantle over me. It is a hard road indeed to try to disagree without being disagreeable How hard indeed to stick for what is important without being too hard in your expression. One to remember there comes a time where you will just have to recognize that you can only go so far, and let it go. Because some will be offended even if you are the nicest person possible. This is where …More
Always wanting her mantle over me. It is a hard road indeed to try to disagree without being disagreeable How hard indeed to stick for what is important without being too hard in your expression. One to remember there comes a time where you will just have to recognize that you can only go so far, and let it go. Because some will be offended even if you are the nicest person possible. This is where real discernment is needed.
Elisha9821
- Report
Change comment
Remove comment
Dear Father, Truly great words....As you said, we must always be willing to show love to our separated brothers . But,we must hold strong to Our beliefs set forth by Christ Our King, and never compromise for we are members of the One True Faith...We are Catholic and there can never be a retreat from that. ...Always forward --converting and evangelizing for Holy Mother Church "so all may be one," …More
Dear Father, Truly great words....As you said, we must always be willing to show love to our separated brothers . But,we must hold strong to Our beliefs set forth by Christ Our King, and never compromise for we are members of the One True Faith...We are Catholic and there can never be a retreat from that. ...Always forward --converting and evangelizing for Holy Mother Church "so all may be one," but with great love and humility. Thank you so much for your videos Father. They are such a tremendous blessing to me. God bless you and your ministry always. And may Our Blessed Lady keep you and your ministry always under her mantle.
your servant in Mary, Queen of the Eucharist,,
Elisha
your servant in Mary, Queen of the Eucharist,,
Miss Maria
- Report
Change comment
Remove comment
"It has to be a dialogue in truth, unbending, not offensive in language, but unbending. This way those who strongly believe but don't want to join will respect us, those who believe and are open to the truth will come in, and those who just want to hate or compromise will leave us."
beautifully said, father....this is so important to keep in mind when dealing with others...is how we are perceived …More
"It has to be a dialogue in truth, unbending, not offensive in language, but unbending. This way those who strongly believe but don't want to join will respect us, those who believe and are open to the truth will come in, and those who just want to hate or compromise will leave us."
beautifully said, father....this is so important to keep in mind when dealing with others...is how we are perceived in the eyes of those whom we can at some point bring "home". We represent our Holy Church. Thank you for including this in your response. I couldn't agree with you more.
Our Lord's peace be with you always,
Maria
beautifully said, father....this is so important to keep in mind when dealing with others...is how we are perceived in the eyes of those whom we can at some point bring "home". We represent our Holy Church. Thank you for including this in your response. I couldn't agree with you more.
Maria
CathPresbyter
- Report
Change comment
Remove comment
Well there are some interesting points here. I have to say this sermon was mainly concerned with ecuminism, and that covers Christians. So mormons and Jehova's Witnesses, and Oneness Believers would not count under this definition. Since JW's are Arians, Oneness believers are Modelists, and Mormons are polytheistic.
Another problem with applying my model with Mormons, is though we do have a great …More
Well there are some interesting points here. I have to say this sermon was mainly concerned with ecuminism, and that covers Christians. So mormons and Jehova's Witnesses, and Oneness Believers would not count under this definition. Since JW's are Arians, Oneness believers are Modelists, and Mormons are polytheistic.
Another problem with applying my model with Mormons, is though we do have a great deal in common in the camps of both abortion and even birth control, the problem is that Mormons have no desire to participate in pro-life events. In all my years working in pro-life I could not get Mormons to co-operate in any way, my guess is they would be the same with in public policy with birth control, so we do share common interests there but they lack a model of action compatable with Catholic Action models. (Wait I am beginning to sound like Dullas. lol)
Now as for the Vatican II model failing. I don't think it has ever been tried. We have had ecumania with numerous models of ecuminism not compatable with Catholicism being tried in the Catholic Church. We have had dialogue with clergy who do not even know the faith, so how can they dialogue. And Catholics end up pretending to be protties to seek union, and in this they erode Catholic Doctrine. This is why Ogden's book on post-modernity tells us that we have even messed up the protestants, because in our movement we have destroyed the one pillar protestantism always knew would be there to react to. We need to stop trying to act like them and be Catholic and if they seek the truth they will be attracted.
The dialogue must be in truth. You cannot have ecuminism without apologetics also. We need to be willing to say look we believe this you believe that, so where can we work together. (Second model I proposed.) In time it may attract them bringing the primary model into effect. Many of the protestants are going to come to us, when they see what a tower of babel their system has become. We need to be strong and reject liberalism, and the smaller ships will anchor to the main ship, and come aboard.
This is why I don't completely reject ecuminism, I reject what people are doing in the name of ecuminism. I have engaged in numerous dialogues and have brought many protestants into the church who now are strong Catholics. But I never even had respect when I did this wishy washy liberalism. It has to be a dialogue in truth, unbending, not offensive in language, but unbending. This way those who strongly believe but don't want to join will respect us, those who believe and are open to the truth will come in, and those who just want to hate or compromise will leave us.
Another problem with applying my model with Mormons, is though we do have a great deal in common in the camps of both abortion and even birth control, the problem is that Mormons have no desire to participate in pro-life events. In all my years working in pro-life I could not get Mormons to co-operate in any way, my guess is they would be the same with in public policy with birth control, so we do share common interests there but they lack a model of action compatable with Catholic Action models. (Wait I am beginning to sound like Dullas. lol)
Now as for the Vatican II model failing. I don't think it has ever been tried. We have had ecumania with numerous models of ecuminism not compatable with Catholicism being tried in the Catholic Church. We have had dialogue with clergy who do not even know the faith, so how can they dialogue. And Catholics end up pretending to be protties to seek union, and in this they erode Catholic Doctrine. This is why Ogden's book on post-modernity tells us that we have even messed up the protestants, because in our movement we have destroyed the one pillar protestantism always knew would be there to react to. We need to stop trying to act like them and be Catholic and if they seek the truth they will be attracted.
The dialogue must be in truth. You cannot have ecuminism without apologetics also. We need to be willing to say look we believe this you believe that, so where can we work together. (Second model I proposed.) In time it may attract them bringing the primary model into effect. Many of the protestants are going to come to us, when they see what a tower of babel their system has become. We need to be strong and reject liberalism, and the smaller ships will anchor to the main ship, and come aboard.
This is why I don't completely reject ecuminism, I reject what people are doing in the name of ecuminism. I have engaged in numerous dialogues and have brought many protestants into the church who now are strong Catholics. But I never even had respect when I did this wishy washy liberalism. It has to be a dialogue in truth, unbending, not offensive in language, but unbending. This way those who strongly believe but don't want to join will respect us, those who believe and are open to the truth will come in, and those who just want to hate or compromise will leave us.
REVTHREEVS21
- Report
Change comment
Remove comment
Cathpresbyter: For example, I think, we tried this with the Mormons, and it backfired. The Church, has to warned, its parishes, to not let the Mormons, get our Genology, or history, because they are baptising our dead, making them Mormon.....
How silly can it get. A mormon, can't defend his faith, to a strong Catholic!!!! Oh, thats right, we don't have very many strong Catholics out there do we. …More
Cathpresbyter: For example, I think, we tried this with the Mormons, and it backfired. The Church, has to warned, its parishes, to not let the Mormons, get our Genology, or history, because they are baptising our dead, making them Mormon.....
How silly can it get. A mormon, can't defend his faith, to a strong Catholic!!!! Oh, thats right, we don't have very many strong Catholics out there do we. We have spent, decades, trying to find, what we have in common, rather than what is TRUTH!!!!!
Revthreevs
Joseph Smith, was an anti-Christ spirit....after the olive branch, technique fails, I usually, close the debate, with that statement....
How silly can it get. A mormon, can't defend his faith, to a strong Catholic!!!! Oh, thats right, we don't have very many strong Catholics out there do we. We have spent, decades, trying to find, what we have in common, rather than what is TRUTH!!!!!
Revthreevs
Joseph Smith, was an anti-Christ spirit....after the olive branch, technique fails, I usually, close the debate, with that statement....
REVTHREEVS21
- Report
Change comment
Remove comment
CathPresbyter: What I find, witnessing to brothers, Father is this. Many separated brothers, are very happy, in there faiths. And many of them, have never taken a moment to even study, there origins. I actually have a best friend, who grew up Catholic, and became Mormon!!!!! What is difficult, is witnessing in Love, and offering the Olive Branch, is a great thought process, but I truley believe, …More
CathPresbyter: What I find, witnessing to brothers, Father is this. Many separated brothers, are very happy, in there faiths. And many of them, have never taken a moment to even study, there origins. I actually have a best friend, who grew up Catholic, and became Mormon!!!!! What is difficult, is witnessing in Love, and offering the Olive Branch, is a great thought process, but I truley believe, that Vatican II, and this approach, has back fired on us. If a soul, wants to take the chance on coming to God, successfully, outside of the Church, that is there peragative. I have many friends, that have rejected my Catholic witness. They think, they are fine, with God, or they are going to live forever. Many of them, have God on the shelf. Its just as Blessed Anne Catherine, so aptly stated in one of her vision. Here the Lord is standing out in a field...and he has eternal life at his feet, offering it to everyone. And souls, come right up, knowing He is there. Hardly glance at him, and scurry off, following everyone, else towards, some trinket...or jewel, or some, worldly prize....and the Lord, is just so HURT!!!!! I think, as a Church, we will be far more successful, converting, when we pull back, the Olive Branch, and speak TRUTH. Christ said, there is no life in us...without, the Sacrafice. The Eucharist. He said, take and eat...and drink.....and I will raise to eternal life, those who feed on me....but, they must be worthy...as St. Paul, says....we must shout this from our Churches...we have the bible....declaring this.....
Revthreevs21
Revthreevs21