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Lionel L. Andrades

Apologetics for Maike Hickson when she is at the Vatican

OCTOBER 16, 2017

Apologetics for Maike Hickson when she is at the Vatican

Dr.Maike Hickson does not get answers at the Vatican and form her sources whom she has asked about Pope Benedict saying in March 2016 that extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) was no more like it was for the missionaries in the 16th century and they could not tell her the reason why.1
To get an answer, I mentioned, in a blog post yesterday 1 she could try another approach.She could ask herself what if the present Magisterium made a theological error which has led to new doctrines? What if there is a precise factual mistake which has led to all this confusion?
There is one!
The Magisterium made a theological mistake in the Fr. Leonard Feeney case when it assumed unknown for us cases of the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) were known exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma EENS.The mistake was not corrected in 1960-65.So Lumen Gentium 16 ( invincible ignorance) etc were also interpreted as physically visible and known people saved outside the Church.So Vatican Council II was seen as a rupture with Tradition.This is how Cardinal Luiz Ladaria s.j, the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) sees it, as did Cardinal Muller before him.
She needs to be aware of this point when she talks about this issue with her sources in the Vatican.

Is there a precise factual mistake and did Pope Benedict make it last March 2016?
When Pope Benedict said last year that there was'a development' in Vatican Council II he was referring to known cases of Lumen Gentium 16 etc saved outside the Church. We now know that this is irrational. There cannot be any such person. How can we see people in Heaven? How can we meet someone on earth who will be saved with the baptism of desire and not the baptism of water ?
Similarly when Massimo Faggioli
2 says the old theology and ecclesiology no more exists he means, like Pope Benedict, that the old exclusivist ecclesiology, which came with EENS, has been eliminated with LG 16, UR 3, NA 2 being visible for us cases of people saved outside the Church.Hypothetical cases of BOD, BOB and I.I like LG 16, GS 22 and AG 11( seeds of the Word) are visible and known for him in 2017.So they are exceptions to the old ecclesiology for him and there is now a new ecclesiology bases on known salvation outside the Church. De jure and defacto there are people known without 'faith and baptism'(Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II).
They are not for me.



So when someone at the Vatican tells Maike Hickson that this error is what the popes since Pius XII have been affirming,she could tell him that the popes since then have violated the Principle of Non Contradiction.The error can be easily be avoided today. It's simple.
Even if a pope says we humans can see people and birds in Heaven and on earth at the same time, it is wrong.The Principle of Non Contradiction applies to all. Even a pope can violate it.It is a fact of life that we cannot see a baptism of desire case in Heaven and also on earth.The popes made a mistake, an objective mistake.There are no practical cases of the baptism of desire on earth for them to be exceptions to the dogma EENS.
If at Vatican someone says that this was a mistake of the past and it cannot be changed now tell them that there is a blogger who affirms all magisterial documents issued by the popes but he says that the interprets them differently.He avoids the premise( invisible people are visible on earth) which the popes use.There are many Catholics who agree with him.They also interpret magisterial documents without the mistake.
So this is not an issue of the past only. It decides how we interpret Vatican Council II, in harmony or as rupture with EENS.
If they say that the traditionalists also use the same premise point out that they violate the Principle of Non Contradiction.Archbishop Lefebvre made the same mistake.So Vatican Council II became a rupture with Traditionfor him.The same Vatican Council II is not a rupture with the Tradition for the blogger(Lionel) who avoids the premise.
If Maike Hickson is told that the Council of Trent, Catechsim of Pìus X and Mystici Corporis
3 among other magisterial documents mention BOD, BOB and I.I as being exceptions to EENS, tell them at the Vatican that this is not true. These documents only mention BOD, BOB and I.I. They do not state that they are visible and known cases, for them to be exceptions to EENS. This has to be wrongly inferred.When BOD, BOB and I.I are considered invisible and unknown then they cannot be explicit exceptions to EENS.So again the false premise is used in the interpretation of BOD, BOB and I.I by Pope Benedict and the cardinals and bishops in general. This error has spread like the Arian heresy did in the past. This was the mistake in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 which is now official in the Church.
If it said that someone in the past could have been saved outside the Church(St. Emerentiana , St.Victor, St.XYZ) then tell them at the Vatican that a theoretical possibility in the past cannot be a known exception to the dogma EENS.A possibility is not a real case.A possibility in the past cannot be a practical exception to all needing to be incorporated into the Church as members for salvation in for example,2017.
Also who could have seen St.Emerentiana in the past in Heaven with or without the baptism of water? This is human speculation and it should not be linked to EENS.
So then why did they say in the past that BOD, BOB and I.I were exceptions to EENS? Since they wanted to eliminate the dogma EENS.
They were assisted by Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II,knowingly or unknowingly. Cardinal Ratzinger called outside the Church no salvation an 'aphorism' ( Catechism of the Catholic Church 846) even though Pope Pius XII called it an 'infallible teaching'(1949 Letter of the Holy Office).
Dr.Maike Hickson could ask the cardinals and bishops, her sources, these two questions.


1.The baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance are not references to physically invisible people in 2017. We cannot meet or see any one as such.They are not personally known people?
2.Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance),Lumen Gentium 8,people outside the Church allegedly saved with 'elements of sanctification and truth', Unitatis Redintigratio 3( imperfect communion with the Church) etc are references to hypothetical cases, theoretical possibilites ? They are not personally known people ?.


When they respond with the expected "Yes", it is enough.
She could then write that BOD, BOB and I.I along with LG 16, LG 8, UR 3 etc refer to hypothetical cases, they are not known people saved outside the Church. So they are not exceptions to the dogma EENS, according to the cardinal and bishops who have made this common sense observation.
So how could Vatican Council II contradict EENS as it was known to the magisterium and missionaries of the 16th century? It does not.

Pope Benedict made a mistake in the Avvenireinterview last year.The new 'ideology' on salvation has to be rejected.
-Lionel Andrades

1.
OCTOBER 15, 2017

Dr.Maike Hickson does not get answers at the Vatican
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/drmaike-hickson…

AUGUST 14, 2017
Vatican hides the Leonard Feeney secret from secular newspapers : CDF made an objective error
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/vatican-is-hidi…

AUGUST 13, 2017
Msgr.Todd J. Lajiness grants accreditation to only those Catholic instituitions which do not admit that the Church made a mistake
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/msgrtodd-j-laji…

2.

OCTOBER 8, 2017

Massimo Faggioli and Cardinal Burke have to be shown their theological mistake : rejection of the Syllabus of Errors with a false premise
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/massimo-faggiol…


OCTOBER 6, 2017

Cardinal Raymond Burke interprets Vatican Council II with the same reasoning as Massimo Faggioli and Fr.James Martin s.j
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/cardinal-raymon…


AUGUST 21, 2017
Formal correction of Cardinal Raymond Burke needed : not reported by media

eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/formal-correcti…

SEPTEMBER 15, 2017
Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church rationally it does not contradict the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus : most Catholics have it wrong
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/if-you-read-cat…

AUGUST 12, 2017

Rev. Msgr. Todd J. Lajiness, Rector and President of the Sacred Heart Major Seminary, Detroit agrees with professors Ralph Martin, Robert Fastiggi and Phillip Blosser : no physically visible cases of BOD, BOB and I.I
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/rev-msgr-todd-j…

3.

SEPTEMBER 11, 2017

How can Mystici Corporis and the Catechisms of Trent and Pius X have exceptions to the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma EENS when BOD, BOB and I.I are invisible cases ? : traditionalists still supporting liberal theologians.
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/how-can-mystici…

SEPTEMBER 12, 2017

SSPX and sedevacantist websites consider invisible for us BOD, BOB and I.I as being visible exceptions to Feeneyite EENS : theology at the Catholic Identity Confc.
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/sspx-and-tradit…

SEPTEMBER 9, 2017

There can be no Catholic identity without Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Feeneyite Vatican Council II
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/here-can-be-no-…

SEPTEMBER 14, 2017

Lay Catholics inform your Bishop and Parish Priest that you do not know of any BOD, BOB and I.I case in 2017 : so you affirm the traditional interpretation of the dogma EENS
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/lay-catholics-i…

DECEMBER 17, 2016

Unprecedented!eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/2016/12/unprecedented.html

AUGUST 26, 2017

Pope Paul VI made a mistake in Vatican Council II : error repeated in Amoris Laetitia
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/pope-paul-vi-ma…

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AUGUST 22, 2017

Bishop Athanasius Schneider is part of the Arian heresy and he does not know it
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/bishop-athanasi…

AUGUST 21, 2017

Brandmüller's Profession of Faith for the pope is meaningless : meaning of Nicene Creed has been changed
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/brandmullers-pr…

AUGUST 22, 2017

False profession of faith(Credo) made by popes and cardinals : recommended by Cd. Brandmuller, Msgr. Bux for Pope Francis
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/false-professio…

AUGUST 6, 2017
Society of St.Pius X must revive Reconciliation Talks with the Vatican : VC II (Feeneyite) is a breakthrough
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/society-of-stpi…

OCTOBER 7, 2017

SSPX canonical recognition is assured : Vatican Council II (premise-free) is no more an issue
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/sspx-canonical-…

OCTOBER 7, 2017

SSPX must re-open negotiations for canonical status : cite new doctrinal references and explanations on this blog
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/sspx-must-re-op…

AUGUST 28, 2017
Simple solution for the SSPX : Vatican Council II no more an obstacle for canonical recognition
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/simple-solution…

AUGUST 22, 2017
SSPX interprets the Nicene Creed, EENS and Vatican Council II with Cushingism instead of Feeneyism as a philosophy and theology and doesn't have a clue to it
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/sspx-interprets…

JUNE 26, 2017

Pope Benedict permitted Fr. Jean Marie Gleize to lead in doctrinal talks since he was a liberal ?

eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/pope-benedict-p…

June 24, 2017
Official statement from SSPX awaited : Fr.Gleize and other theologians have got it wrong
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/frjean-marie-gl…

AUGUST 10, 2017

SSPX seminarians like those at Detroit should also rebel against the irrationality and heresy being taught in theology at Econe

eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/sspx-seminarian…

SEPTEMBER 1, 2017

EWTN, Jeff Mirus, Fr.William Most's Internet report is an obstacle for the SSPX canonical recognition
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/ewtn-frwilliam-…

AUGUST 28, 2017

Vatican Council II (revised) is not an obstacle for SSPX canonical recognition but Wikipedia's false propaganda has to be neutralised
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/vatican-council…

AUGUST 15, 2017

Vatican Council II is a legitimate,dogmatic,pastoral,exclusivist and traditional Council : it is a rupture with Schneider, Burke, Kohl and Kasper
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/vatican-council…

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The Magisterial Heresy -1eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/the-magisterial…

Magisterial Heresy -2

eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/magisterial-her…

The Magisterial Heresy - 3

eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/the-magisterial…

Questions and Answers : Vatican Council II is Feeneyite. It has an exclusivist ecclesiology
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/questions-and-a…

Questions and Answers : Vatican Council II affirms the Social Kingship of Christ the King

eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/questions-and-a…

Questions and Answers : Evangelizing with Vatican Council II

eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/questions-and-a…
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On the Principle of Non Contradiction

JULY 13, 2017

Pope Francis violates the Principle of Non Contradiction: chooses irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II which is not the work of the Holy Spirit
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/pope-francis-vi…

July 12, 2017

Pope's moto proprio suggests there is known salvation and sainthood outside the Catholic Church

eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/popes-moto-prop…

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October 16, 2016
If the whole world violates the Principle of Non Contradiction then the whole world is wrong.If you and the other sedevacantists assume imaginary cases are physically visible in 2016 then you all are wrong
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/if-whole-world-…

October 14, 2016
The Principle of Non Contradiction cannot be violated irrespective of the importance of the people or their numbers

eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/the-principle-o…

The New Theology in itself violates the Principle of Non Contraduction
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/the-new-theolog…

SSPX and Novus Ordo priests in Regensburg are willing to accept the New Theology which violates the Principle of Non Contradiction
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/the-sspx-is-to-…

Ann Barnhardt is a Catholic even though she violates the Principle of Non Contradiction
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/ann-barnhardt-i…

The New Theology, the official Cushingite theology contradicts the Principle of Non Contradiction
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/the-new-theolog…

IT IS A METAPHYSICAL LAW THAT WE CANNOT SEE OR KNOW PERSONS SAVED OR ABOUT TO BE SAVED WITH THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE, WITH OR WITHOUT THE BAPTISM OF WATER? eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/o-it-is-metaphy…

JULY 6, 2017
Everything hinges on visible baptism of desire : correct the premise and change the Council
eucharistandmission.blogspot.ro/…/everything-hing…