Why Did Francis Create Such a Disaster with the Amazon Synod?
At the Amazon Synod, Francis followed Argentinean President Juan Perón’s (+1974) words, “I put the turning-light to the left, but I turn to the right," Caminante-Wanderer.Blogspot.com (February 26) …More
At the Amazon Synod, Francis followed Argentinean President Juan Perón’s (+1974) words, “I put the turning-light to the left, but I turn to the right," Caminante-Wanderer.Blogspot.com (February 26) writes.
Caminante also quotes Peronist President Néstor Kirchner (+2010): "Don't listen to what I say, but look at what I do."
The blog calls Francis “a Peronist,” saying that Francis’ nonsensical Amazon exhortation had the only effect that it was echoed by some imbecile priests, while “Bergoglio made conservative decisions.”
Picture: © Mazur, CC BY-NC-SA, #newsBpstltnykl
Caminante also quotes Peronist President Néstor Kirchner (+2010): "Don't listen to what I say, but look at what I do."
The blog calls Francis “a Peronist,” saying that Francis’ nonsensical Amazon exhortation had the only effect that it was echoed by some imbecile priests, while “Bergoglio made conservative decisions.”
Picture: © Mazur, CC BY-NC-SA, #newsBpstltnykl
KristianKeller
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Antipope Francis is an apostate heretic, please see more at vaticancatholic.com and seek true traditional Catholic Faith. You have to be Catholic for Salvaiton.
KristianKeller
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Mortal sin! That is a lie, Brother Dimonds don't encourage people to receive sacraments in Eastern Schizmatic Churches. You won't find any quote to support that you liar.
Baptism of desire is not a sacrament. Water baptism saves.
Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi (# 22), June 29, 1943: “Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have received the laver of regeneration…More
Mortal sin! That is a lie, Brother Dimonds don't encourage people to receive sacraments in Eastern Schizmatic Churches. You won't find any quote to support that you liar.
Baptism of desire is not a sacrament. Water baptism saves.
Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi (# 22), June 29, 1943: “Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have received the laver of regeneration and profess the true faith…”
It is false doctrine of men, an error that theologians made in their fallible capacity. I am not saying they are heretics. Neither Bro. Dimonds say that, you just misrepresent what they say, you take bunch of quotes from theologians and recycle them. You are truly a protestant. Fact is that you don't care about the truth, and you jump on and go along with any opinion of men, and it doesn't matter for you if it contradicts with Catholic teaching, you don't care that you do lie about others and therefore God rejects you, for you are a blind, arrogant and proud fool. You don't even believe in necessity of believing in Christ, for you believe for sure that those outside of Church are saved through invincible ignorance. For one to see the video I posted and not consider the arguments and going against Church's teaching is to reject God's teaching, is to be a hopeless liar and heretic.
Baptism of desire is not a sacrament. Water baptism saves.
Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi (# 22), June 29, 1943: “Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have received the laver of regeneration and profess the true faith…”
It is false doctrine of men, an error that theologians made in their fallible capacity. I am not saying they are heretics. Neither Bro. Dimonds say that, you just misrepresent what they say, you take bunch of quotes from theologians and recycle them. You are truly a protestant. Fact is that you don't care about the truth, and you jump on and go along with any opinion of men, and it doesn't matter for you if it contradicts with Catholic teaching, you don't care that you do lie about others and therefore God rejects you, for you are a blind, arrogant and proud fool. You don't even believe in necessity of believing in Christ, for you believe for sure that those outside of Church are saved through invincible ignorance. For one to see the video I posted and not consider the arguments and going against Church's teaching is to reject God's teaching, is to be a hopeless liar and heretic.
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@KristianKeller
Pope Pius IX (19th century): Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, 1863: “There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace …More
@KristianKeller
Pope Pius IX (19th century): Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, 1863: “There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.”
Singulari Quadam, December 9, 1854: "For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood; but, on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, are not stained by any guilt in this matter in the eyes of God."
Baltimore Catechism (19th and 20th centuries): Q. 653. Is Baptism of desire or of blood sufficient to produce the effects of Baptism of water? A. Baptism of desire or of blood is sufficient to produce the effects of the Baptism of water, if it is impossible to receive the Baptism of water.
Council of Trent (16th century): Decree on Justification, Session VI, Chapter 4: "And this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, or the desire thereof, as it is written; unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God."
Catechism of the Council of Trent (16th century): The Sacraments, Baptism: "...should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness."
The Douay Catechism (17th century): "Q. 610. Can a man be saved without baptism? A. He cannot, unless he have it either actual or in desire, with contrition, or to be baptized in his blood as the holy Innocents were, which suffered for Christ."
I take that back, it was Eastern Rite. From their website:
• There are still more options for Confession, and it’s crucial that people who have mortal sins that need to be confessed find a priest from whom they can receive absolution. Options for Confession include: an old Novus Ordo priest ordained before 1968, who says: “I absolve you from your sins, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”; a priest ordained in the Eastern Rite; a non-imposing independent “traditional” priest; etc.
ref: www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/…/where-to-receiv…
Pope Pius IX (19th century): Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, 1863: “There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.”
Singulari Quadam, December 9, 1854: "For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood; but, on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, are not stained by any guilt in this matter in the eyes of God."
Baltimore Catechism (19th and 20th centuries): Q. 653. Is Baptism of desire or of blood sufficient to produce the effects of Baptism of water? A. Baptism of desire or of blood is sufficient to produce the effects of the Baptism of water, if it is impossible to receive the Baptism of water.
Council of Trent (16th century): Decree on Justification, Session VI, Chapter 4: "And this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, or the desire thereof, as it is written; unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God."
Catechism of the Council of Trent (16th century): The Sacraments, Baptism: "...should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness."
The Douay Catechism (17th century): "Q. 610. Can a man be saved without baptism? A. He cannot, unless he have it either actual or in desire, with contrition, or to be baptized in his blood as the holy Innocents were, which suffered for Christ."
I take that back, it was Eastern Rite. From their website:
• There are still more options for Confession, and it’s crucial that people who have mortal sins that need to be confessed find a priest from whom they can receive absolution. Options for Confession include: an old Novus Ordo priest ordained before 1968, who says: “I absolve you from your sins, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”; a priest ordained in the Eastern Rite; a non-imposing independent “traditional” priest; etc.
ref: www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/…/where-to-receiv…
KristianKeller
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I hope you will take back more than that and weep. Read following. Also anyone else here can see the full quote.
www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholic_church…
www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholic_church…
mattsixteen24
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@KristianKeller This is the full quote:
7. Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course …More
@KristianKeller This is the full quote:
7. Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.
www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9quanto.htm
The dimond brothers are not clerics. They are laymen. They have no God given authority. Following the teachings of laymen is protestantism. Not Catholicism.
7. Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.
www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9quanto.htm
The dimond brothers are not clerics. They are laymen. They have no God given authority. Following the teachings of laymen is protestantism. Not Catholicism.
KristianKeller
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@mattsixteen24 That is another outrageous lie, that they are laymen. They are Benedictine Monks, see this: www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/…/benedictine-com…
First of all this is not address to whole church, and it does not meet requirements of infallibility , it is not infallible. This is letter to some Cardinals and Bishops in Italy. The point is that in Pope Pius IX's Quanto Conficiamur Moerore …More
@mattsixteen24 That is another outrageous lie, that they are laymen. They are Benedictine Monks, see this: www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/…/benedictine-com…
First of all this is not address to whole church, and it does not meet requirements of infallibility , it is not infallible. This is letter to some Cardinals and Bishops in Italy. The point is that in Pope Pius IX's Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, 1863 he is condemning idea of living in error:
"it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity"
After that you read:
"There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace."
This is of course talking about people who are following natural law, and God can lead them to obtain divine light and grace (which means receiving Gospel) and to the sacraments of Holy Church which is water baptism. So no, this is not talking about salvation through invincible ignorance, but that ignorant who observe natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearths, and are ready to obey God will be brought to hearing Gospel and getting baptised.
It is poorly worded, liberals and heretics of bad will tried to use this letter against Holy Church and Roman Pontiff - to say that there is salvation outside of Church. But the first line in bold proves that they are far from truth, and that Pius IX was talking about people who are ignorant of Gospel, will be brought to hear the Gospel.
First of all this is not address to whole church, and it does not meet requirements of infallibility , it is not infallible. This is letter to some Cardinals and Bishops in Italy. The point is that in Pope Pius IX's Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, 1863 he is condemning idea of living in error:
"it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity"
After that you read:
"There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace."
This is of course talking about people who are following natural law, and God can lead them to obtain divine light and grace (which means receiving Gospel) and to the sacraments of Holy Church which is water baptism. So no, this is not talking about salvation through invincible ignorance, but that ignorant who observe natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearths, and are ready to obey God will be brought to hearing Gospel and getting baptised.
It is poorly worded, liberals and heretics of bad will tried to use this letter against Holy Church and Roman Pontiff - to say that there is salvation outside of Church. But the first line in bold proves that they are far from truth, and that Pius IX was talking about people who are ignorant of Gospel, will be brought to hear the Gospel.
mattsixteen24
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@KristianKeller you never answered my question about all those quotes being forgeries. Did liberals and heretics twist those interpretations as well? Explain that?
mattsixteen24
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@KristianKeller read the following link. Although, the author has gone full blown novus ordo, his old views criticize practically every group out there who claim to be Catholic just like dimond brothers. www.mostholyfamilymonasterydimondbrothers.com/brother-michael-dimond/
KristianKeller
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What do you want? You want me to go through them all individually? I do not have time for that, that is why I left all major links for you and others to study - for more read book Outside of Church There is No Salvation on MHFM. Main point I covered, which was issue of invincible ignorance and quote that is not in it's fullest present in those arguments. You believe in salvation through invincible …More
What do you want? You want me to go through them all individually? I do not have time for that, that is why I left all major links for you and others to study - for more read book Outside of Church There is No Salvation on MHFM. Main point I covered, which was issue of invincible ignorance and quote that is not in it's fullest present in those arguments. You believe in salvation through invincible ignorance quite surely, just like 99% percent of you Bod believers.
Bro. Dimonds use arguments which derive from Catholic teaching and they defend Magisterial Teaching. People should study it more and pray the Rosary, if possible all 15 decades every day to receive spiritual graces.
You are open enemy of devout monks that defend Catholic teaching, you lie, slander and calling mistake that which isn't. Also you don't even believe in necessity of water baptism to be saved, you promote soul of the church heresy, which is described here: www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholic_church…
You are sadly in the dark, I believe you should pray Rosary. You have been drinking from a poisoned well. That page is set up by the devil. Brother Dimonds don't say that all saints were heretics, or that some quotes about BOD or BOB weren't made. First read what they say you blind fool.
Bro. Dimonds use arguments which derive from Catholic teaching and they defend Magisterial Teaching. People should study it more and pray the Rosary, if possible all 15 decades every day to receive spiritual graces.
You are open enemy of devout monks that defend Catholic teaching, you lie, slander and calling mistake that which isn't. Also you don't even believe in necessity of water baptism to be saved, you promote soul of the church heresy, which is described here: www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholic_church…
You are sadly in the dark, I believe you should pray Rosary. You have been drinking from a poisoned well. That page is set up by the devil. Brother Dimonds don't say that all saints were heretics, or that some quotes about BOD or BOB weren't made. First read what they say you blind fool.
mattsixteen24
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@KristianKeller Explain why there are Saints and popes going back to the 3rd century explicitly stating bod&b.
Explain why the dimond brother receive communion from priests who are in full communion with Francis?
And please stop the name calling and insults. Those are not arguments.More
@KristianKeller Explain why there are Saints and popes going back to the 3rd century explicitly stating bod&b.
Explain why the dimond brother receive communion from priests who are in full communion with Francis?
And please stop the name calling and insults. Those are not arguments.
Explain why the dimond brother receive communion from priests who are in full communion with Francis?
And please stop the name calling and insults. Those are not arguments.
KristianKeller
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Saints some of them, not all, and they were not all consistent on it, they taught that there is explicit "baptism of desire" of adult Catechumens. There are multiple quotes mentioned in the book Outside of The Church There Is No Salvation from saints that promote The Water Baptism (so it only appears quotes are many, but there are more in favour of Water Baptism). But, our rule of faith (of the true …More
Saints some of them, not all, and they were not all consistent on it, they taught that there is explicit "baptism of desire" of adult Catechumens. There are multiple quotes mentioned in the book Outside of The Church There Is No Salvation from saints that promote The Water Baptism (so it only appears quotes are many, but there are more in favour of Water Baptism). But, our rule of faith (of the true Catholics , not heretics like you) is to go with what Church has dogmatically taught through Popes in ex cathedra pronouncements, and Councils of The Holy Roman Church, and not with what saints in history held.
Vatican I , 1868 A.D, Pope Pius IX: "....for this reason that the bishops of the whole world, sometimes individually, sometimes gathered in synods, according to the long established custom of the churches and the pattern of ancient usage referred to this apostolic see those dangers especially which arose in matters concerning the faith. This was to ensure that any damage suffered by the faith should be repaired in that place above all where the faith can know no failing"
Bro. Dimonds do excessive, or better word extraordinary commentary, documentaries and study on that subject and refute many errors. Foundation of Charity is Faith full and inviolate - Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos. You are an obstinate heretic, it is you who does the insults against true positions of Catholics, and against honest Benedictine order. Here are some additional Ex Cathedra pronouncements.
Pope Clement V, The Council of Vienne, 1311-1312: “Besides, only one baptism regenerating all who are baptized in Christ must be faithfully confessed by all just as ‘one God and one faith’ [Eph. 4:5], which celebrated in water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit we believe to be the perfect remedy for salvation for both adults and children.”
Pope Eugene IV, The Council of Florence, “Exultate Deo,” Nov. 22, 1439: “Holy baptism, which is the gateway to the spiritual life, holds the first place among all the sacraments; through it we are made members of Christ and of the body of the Church. And since death entered the universe through the first man, ‘unless we are born again of water and the Spirit, we cannot,’ as the Truth says, ‘enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5]. The matter of this sacrament is real and natural water.”
Pope Paul III, The Council of Trent, Can. 2 on the Sacrament of Baptism, Sess. 7, 1547: “Si quis dixerit, aquam veram et naturalem non esse de necessitate baptismi, atque ideo verba illa Domini nostri Iesu Christi: ‘Nisi quis renatus fuerit ex aqua et Spiritu Sancto’ [Io 3, 5] ad metaphoram aliquam detorserit: A.S.”
“If anyone should say that real and natural water is not necessary for baptism, and on that account should distort those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ: ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit’ [John 3:5], into some metaphor: let him be anathema.”
Pope Paul III, The Council of Trent, Can. 5 on the Sacrament of Baptism, Sess. 7, 1547: “If anyone says that baptism [the sacrament] is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema.”
I will not carry on with our conversation. You are prime example of person described in Scripture: "neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you" Mat. 7:6 . However, you had to be refuted, for you are a vicious heretic that wants to poison minds of people, and you want them to prevent to come to the knowledge of truth. You should give a place for sorrow, otherwise you will not be able to.
Vatican I , 1868 A.D, Pope Pius IX: "....for this reason that the bishops of the whole world, sometimes individually, sometimes gathered in synods, according to the long established custom of the churches and the pattern of ancient usage referred to this apostolic see those dangers especially which arose in matters concerning the faith. This was to ensure that any damage suffered by the faith should be repaired in that place above all where the faith can know no failing"
Bro. Dimonds do excessive, or better word extraordinary commentary, documentaries and study on that subject and refute many errors. Foundation of Charity is Faith full and inviolate - Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos. You are an obstinate heretic, it is you who does the insults against true positions of Catholics, and against honest Benedictine order. Here are some additional Ex Cathedra pronouncements.
Pope Clement V, The Council of Vienne, 1311-1312: “Besides, only one baptism regenerating all who are baptized in Christ must be faithfully confessed by all just as ‘one God and one faith’ [Eph. 4:5], which celebrated in water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit we believe to be the perfect remedy for salvation for both adults and children.”
Pope Eugene IV, The Council of Florence, “Exultate Deo,” Nov. 22, 1439: “Holy baptism, which is the gateway to the spiritual life, holds the first place among all the sacraments; through it we are made members of Christ and of the body of the Church. And since death entered the universe through the first man, ‘unless we are born again of water and the Spirit, we cannot,’ as the Truth says, ‘enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5]. The matter of this sacrament is real and natural water.”
Pope Paul III, The Council of Trent, Can. 2 on the Sacrament of Baptism, Sess. 7, 1547: “Si quis dixerit, aquam veram et naturalem non esse de necessitate baptismi, atque ideo verba illa Domini nostri Iesu Christi: ‘Nisi quis renatus fuerit ex aqua et Spiritu Sancto’ [Io 3, 5] ad metaphoram aliquam detorserit: A.S.”
“If anyone should say that real and natural water is not necessary for baptism, and on that account should distort those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ: ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit’ [John 3:5], into some metaphor: let him be anathema.”
Pope Paul III, The Council of Trent, Can. 5 on the Sacrament of Baptism, Sess. 7, 1547: “If anyone says that baptism [the sacrament] is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema.”
I will not carry on with our conversation. You are prime example of person described in Scripture: "neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you" Mat. 7:6 . However, you had to be refuted, for you are a vicious heretic that wants to poison minds of people, and you want them to prevent to come to the knowledge of truth. You should give a place for sorrow, otherwise you will not be able to.
KristianKeller
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P.S.:
You wrote:
"read the following link. Although, the author has gone full blown novus ordo, his old views criticize practically every group out there who claim to be Catholic just like dimond brothers. www.mostholyfamilymonasterydimondbrothers.com/brother-michael-dimond/"
This guy is from Sweden and he is possessed, and obstinate heretic, and he has stole much of the stuff from MHFM, and they …More
P.S.:
You wrote:
"read the following link. Although, the author has gone full blown novus ordo, his old views criticize practically every group out there who claim to be Catholic just like dimond brothers. www.mostholyfamilymonasterydimondbrothers.com/brother-michael-dimond/"
This guy is from Sweden and he is possessed, and obstinate heretic, and he has stole much of the stuff from MHFM, and they the monastery have nothing to do with this Swedish guy. To compare him to MHFM , one has to blatantly lie, or he does not have a first clue what he is talking about, which is either way obviously mortally sinful behaviour.
You wrote:
"read the following link. Although, the author has gone full blown novus ordo, his old views criticize practically every group out there who claim to be Catholic just like dimond brothers. www.mostholyfamilymonasterydimondbrothers.com/brother-michael-dimond/"
This guy is from Sweden and he is possessed, and obstinate heretic, and he has stole much of the stuff from MHFM, and they the monastery have nothing to do with this Swedish guy. To compare him to MHFM , one has to blatantly lie, or he does not have a first clue what he is talking about, which is either way obviously mortally sinful behaviour.
mattsixteen24
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@KristianKeller"But, our rule of faith (of the true Catholics, not heretics like you) is to go with what Church has dogmatically taught through Popes in ex cathedra pronouncements, and Councils of The Holy Roman Church, and not with what saints in history held."
The First Vatican Council (1870) defined the infallibility of both Solemn and Ordinary Magisterium: "All those things are to be believed …More
@KristianKeller"But, our rule of faith (of the true Catholics, not heretics like you) is to go with what Church has dogmatically taught through Popes in ex cathedra pronouncements, and Councils of The Holy Roman Church, and not with what saints in history held."
The First Vatican Council (1870) defined the infallibility of both Solemn and Ordinary Magisterium: "All those things are to be believed by divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the written Word of God or in Tradition, and which are proposed by the Church, either in solemn judgment or in its ordinary and universal teaching office, as divinely revealed truths which must be believed."
2. Ordinary Magisterium: this second form of Church teaching is “continually exercised by the Church especially in her universal practices connected with faith and morals, in the unanimous consent of the Fathers and theologians, in the decisions of the Roman Congregations concerning faith and morals, in the common sense of the Faithful, and various historical documents, in which the faith is declared.” (Definition from “A Catholic Dictionary”, 1951)
"and not with what saints in history held." aka Church Fathers, Saints, and the other examples above are “not infallible” argument.
This argument is also in vain as we can clearly see from the definitions of the Magisterium above that when a teaching of the Church is unanimous, it is part of the Ordinary Magisterium of the Church, which is itself infallible, according to the solemn teaching of the First Vatican Council. Certainly, when a theologian speaks or writes on a doctrine, that in itself is not an infallible statement; it is when that doctrine is unanimously taught elsewhere in the Church without condemnation that it becomes part of the infallible Ordinary Magisterium.
We clearly see that baptism of desire and blood has been taught in the Church since the 3rd century up until today. How is it not Ordinary Magisterium? Where is baptism of desire and blood explicitly condemned by the Church?
Catechism of the Council of Trent (16th century): The Sacraments, Baptism: "...should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness."
The Catholic Encyclopedia of 1917: Substitutes for the sacrament www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm
The First Vatican Council (1870) defined the infallibility of both Solemn and Ordinary Magisterium: "All those things are to be believed by divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the written Word of God or in Tradition, and which are proposed by the Church, either in solemn judgment or in its ordinary and universal teaching office, as divinely revealed truths which must be believed."
2. Ordinary Magisterium: this second form of Church teaching is “continually exercised by the Church especially in her universal practices connected with faith and morals, in the unanimous consent of the Fathers and theologians, in the decisions of the Roman Congregations concerning faith and morals, in the common sense of the Faithful, and various historical documents, in which the faith is declared.” (Definition from “A Catholic Dictionary”, 1951)
"and not with what saints in history held." aka Church Fathers, Saints, and the other examples above are “not infallible” argument.
This argument is also in vain as we can clearly see from the definitions of the Magisterium above that when a teaching of the Church is unanimous, it is part of the Ordinary Magisterium of the Church, which is itself infallible, according to the solemn teaching of the First Vatican Council. Certainly, when a theologian speaks or writes on a doctrine, that in itself is not an infallible statement; it is when that doctrine is unanimously taught elsewhere in the Church without condemnation that it becomes part of the infallible Ordinary Magisterium.
We clearly see that baptism of desire and blood has been taught in the Church since the 3rd century up until today. How is it not Ordinary Magisterium? Where is baptism of desire and blood explicitly condemned by the Church?
Catechism of the Council of Trent (16th century): The Sacraments, Baptism: "...should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness."
The Catholic Encyclopedia of 1917: Substitutes for the sacrament www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm
KristianKeller
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See the following: www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/…/latin-text-olde…