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Messages & Visions of These Times - Virgin of Revelation to Bruno Cornacchiola (In 1947 the Vicariate of Rome investigated and then approved the cult of the Virgin of Revelation. On the 5th of October …More
Messages & Visions of These Times - Virgin of Revelation to Bruno Cornacchiola (In 1947 the Vicariate of Rome investigated and then approved the cult of the Virgin of Revelation. On the 5th of October 1947 - A special statue of the Virgin of Revelation was blessed by Pope Pius XII and then taken in procession from St. Peter's Square to Tre Fontane.)
jesusmariasite.org/…apostasy-invasion-of-italy-destruction-in-vatican/
jesusmariasite.org/…ale-iii-guerra-mondiale-stranieri-invadono-italia/
jesusmariasite.org/…apostasy-invasion-of-italy-destruction-in-vatican/
jesusmariasite.org/…ale-iii-guerra-mondiale-stranieri-invadono-italia/
Public domain
Mr. Bruno claims that the "Virgin" said to him:
"Io sono colei che sono nella Trinità Divina"
It's very doubtful that the Blessed Virgin used such words on a verge of blasphemy
"Io sono colui che sono" is the Italian translation of the Name of God revealed to Moses.
PS colui is masculine, colei - feminine.
"Io sono colei che sono nella Trinità Divina"
It's very doubtful that the Blessed Virgin used such words on a verge of blasphemy
"Io sono colui che sono" is the Italian translation of the Name of God revealed to Moses.
PS colui is masculine, colei - feminine.
I think we both would agree that the Blessed Virgin Mary has a unique relationship with each of the Divine Persons of the Most Holy Trinity; Daughter in relationship to the Heavenly Father, Mother in relationship to the Divine Son (Jesus Christ), Spouse in relationship to the Holy Ghost... No other creature and no other created human person has such singular distinction. Perhaps the Virgin attempted …More
I think we both would agree that the Blessed Virgin Mary has a unique relationship with each of the Divine Persons of the Most Holy Trinity; Daughter in relationship to the Heavenly Father, Mother in relationship to the Divine Son (Jesus Christ), Spouse in relationship to the Holy Ghost... No other creature and no other created human person has such singular distinction. Perhaps the Virgin attempted to communicate the great depth of intimacy She has with The Mystery of the Most Holy Trinity with the limitations of our language.
@Live Mike
I think we both agree that your remarks have nothing to do with the problem of the above, daring, close to blasphemy sentence that Mr. Bruno attributes to his vision.
I hold that the BVM never would have said such a thing if only to avoid any controversy.
I think we both agree that your remarks have nothing to do with the problem of the above, daring, close to blasphemy sentence that Mr. Bruno attributes to his vision.
I hold that the BVM never would have said such a thing if only to avoid any controversy.
@V.R.S. Do you know Dogmatic Theology better than the Vicariate of Rome of 1947?
Have you ever interrogated Bruno and his children about what they saw and heard on 12 April 1947?
Please explain your reasons why those words are "on the verge of blasphemy".
Poi la “bella signora" parlo con voce dolcissima e disse:
“Sono colei che sono nella Trinità divina. Sono la Vergine della Rivelazione. Tu mi …More
@V.R.S. Do you know Dogmatic Theology better than the Vicariate of Rome of 1947?
Have you ever interrogated Bruno and his children about what they saw and heard on 12 April 1947?
Please explain your reasons why those words are "on the verge of blasphemy".
Poi la “bella signora" parlo con voce dolcissima e disse:
“Sono colei che sono nella Trinità divina. Sono la Vergine della Rivelazione. Tu mi perseguiti, ora basta! Rientra nell'Ovile Santo, Corte Celeste in terra. Il giuramento di Dio è e rimane immutabile: i nove venerdì del Sacro Cuore che tu facesti, amorevolmente spinto dalla tua fedele sposa, prima di entrare nella via della menzogna, ti hanno salvato! ".
Bruno è pervaso da un'intensissima felicità, mentre la grotta -abitualmente molto maleodorante- si riempie di un dolcissimo profumo. [...] Al termine dell'incontro, la Madonna fa un inchino e dice a Bruno:
“Sono colei che sono nella Trinità divina. Sono la Vergine della Rivelazione. Ecco, prima di andare via io ti dico queste parole: la Rivelazione e la Parola di Dio, questa Rivelazione parla di me. Ecco perché ho dato questo titolo: Vergine della Rivelazione". jesusmariasite.org/…ale-iii-guerra-mondiale-stranieri-invadono-italia/
What is the Church's interpretation on the following passages of the Holy Gospel according to St. John 6:56-57, 10:30, 15:4, 17:21-23?
Have you ever interrogated Bruno and his children about what they saw and heard on 12 April 1947?
Please explain your reasons why those words are "on the verge of blasphemy".
Poi la “bella signora" parlo con voce dolcissima e disse:
“Sono colei che sono nella Trinità divina. Sono la Vergine della Rivelazione. Tu mi perseguiti, ora basta! Rientra nell'Ovile Santo, Corte Celeste in terra. Il giuramento di Dio è e rimane immutabile: i nove venerdì del Sacro Cuore che tu facesti, amorevolmente spinto dalla tua fedele sposa, prima di entrare nella via della menzogna, ti hanno salvato! ".
Bruno è pervaso da un'intensissima felicità, mentre la grotta -abitualmente molto maleodorante- si riempie di un dolcissimo profumo. [...] Al termine dell'incontro, la Madonna fa un inchino e dice a Bruno:
“Sono colei che sono nella Trinità divina. Sono la Vergine della Rivelazione. Ecco, prima di andare via io ti dico queste parole: la Rivelazione e la Parola di Dio, questa Rivelazione parla di me. Ecco perché ho dato questo titolo: Vergine della Rivelazione". jesusmariasite.org/…ale-iii-guerra-mondiale-stranieri-invadono-italia/
What is the Church's interpretation on the following passages of the Holy Gospel according to St. John 6:56-57, 10:30, 15:4, 17:21-23?
@Live Mike
Do you know Dogmatic Theology better than the Vicariate of Rome of 1947?
===
I do not have to be an expert in Dogmatic Theology. Every Catholic knows:
- the Name of God that God has revealed to men,
- the incomparable difference between the Divinity and the creation (even the noblest).
Moreover, your above question is irrelevant as no Church authority has recognized so-called Tre Fontane …More
@Live Mike
Do you know Dogmatic Theology better than the Vicariate of Rome of 1947?
===
I do not have to be an expert in Dogmatic Theology. Every Catholic knows:
- the Name of God that God has revealed to men,
- the incomparable difference between the Divinity and the creation (even the noblest).
Moreover, your above question is irrelevant as no Church authority has recognized so-called Tre Fontane apparitions. Therefore, you will find no apparition text with the imprimatur (at least given before the postconciliar age of chaos).
Do you know Dogmatic Theology better than the Vicariate of Rome of 1947?
===
I do not have to be an expert in Dogmatic Theology. Every Catholic knows:
- the Name of God that God has revealed to men,
- the incomparable difference between the Divinity and the creation (even the noblest).
Moreover, your above question is irrelevant as no Church authority has recognized so-called Tre Fontane apparitions. Therefore, you will find no apparition text with the imprimatur (at least given before the postconciliar age of chaos).
@V.R.S. I NEVER asked if you were an "expert in Dogmatic Theology"... I simply asked if you know the subject "better than the Vicariate of Rome of 1947". Apparently, in your opinion, the approval of the cult of the Virgin of Revelation was given in error by the Vicariate of Rome back in 1947. Therefore, you claim to know the subject better than the the Vicariate of Rome which at that time was under …More
@V.R.S. I NEVER asked if you were an "expert in Dogmatic Theology"... I simply asked if you know the subject "better than the Vicariate of Rome of 1947". Apparently, in your opinion, the approval of the cult of the Virgin of Revelation was given in error by the Vicariate of Rome back in 1947. Therefore, you claim to know the subject better than the the Vicariate of Rome which at that time was under the gaze of Pope Pius XII. Okay. Perhaps this may be a breakdown in communication or a misunderstanding in the translation. Why is the statement, ["Sono colei che sono nella Trinità divina."], theologically problematic based upon the Solemn Dogmatic Doctrine of the Catholic Church and please be specific in your answer.
@Live Mike
" the approval of the cult of the Virgin of Revelation was given in error by the Vicariate of Rome back in 1947"
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Prove you claim first i.e. provide the source document confirming that it was approved and to what extent.
"Why is the statement, ["Sono colei che sono nella Trinità divina."], theologically problematic"
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If you do not understand that saying: "I AM WHO AM in the Divine …More
@Live Mike
" the approval of the cult of the Virgin of Revelation was given in error by the Vicariate of Rome back in 1947"
---
Prove you claim first i.e. provide the source document confirming that it was approved and to what extent.
"Why is the statement, ["Sono colei che sono nella Trinità divina."], theologically problematic"
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If you do not understand that saying: "I AM WHO AM in the Divine Trinity" by any created being is theologically problematic then there is something wrong with your faith.
"... and please be specific in your answer"
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Claiming the Name of God for oneself is a blasphemy.
" the approval of the cult of the Virgin of Revelation was given in error by the Vicariate of Rome back in 1947"
---
Prove you claim first i.e. provide the source document confirming that it was approved and to what extent.
"Why is the statement, ["Sono colei che sono nella Trinità divina."], theologically problematic"
---
If you do not understand that saying: "I AM WHO AM in the Divine Trinity" by any created being is theologically problematic then there is something wrong with your faith.
"... and please be specific in your answer"
---
Claiming the Name of God for oneself is a blasphemy.
In good faith I accept the article written by miraclehunter.com as true. I have no reason to believe they are lying. I have no evidence to doubt the veracity of their statement. What evidence do you have that miraclehunter.com has made a false claim? However, you have made an error or a false claim regarding the translation of "Sono colei che sono nella Trinità divina." The quotation in question …More
In good faith I accept the article written by miraclehunter.com as true. I have no reason to believe they are lying. I have no evidence to doubt the veracity of their statement. What evidence do you have that miraclehunter.com has made a false claim? However, you have made an error or a false claim regarding the translation of "Sono colei che sono nella Trinità divina." The quotation in question is properly translated, "I am she who am in the divine Trinity" or "I am she who is in the divine Trinity." Given the correct translation above... What is theologically problematic about the correct translation?
Il giudizio della Chiesa cattolica
Le apparizioni non sono ancora state riconosciute ufficialmente dalla Chiesa cattolica, ma nel 1956 il Vicariato di Roma, dopo aver consentito la costruzione di unacappella per il culto nel luogo delle apparizioni, ne affidò la custodia e il servizio religioso ai Frati Minori Conventuali.
Nel 1997 papa Giovanni Paolo II approvò la denominazione del luogo come …More
Il giudizio della Chiesa cattolica
Le apparizioni non sono ancora state riconosciute ufficialmente dalla Chiesa cattolica, ma nel 1956 il Vicariato di Roma, dopo aver consentito la costruzione di unacappella per il culto nel luogo delle apparizioni, ne affidò la custodia e il servizio religioso ai Frati Minori Conventuali.
Nel 1997 papa Giovanni Paolo II approvò la denominazione del luogo come Santa Maria del Terzo Millennio alle Tre Fontane.
Il luogo ha ispirato anche la nascita di una famiglia religiosa, quella delle Missionarie della Divina Rivelazione, fondate da Madre Prisca Mormina: l’11 febbraio 2001, festa di Nostra Signora di Lourdes, la Congregazione ricevette l’approvazione della Diocesi di Roma, a firma del cardinale Camillo Ruini.
papaboys.org/…conda-apparizione-della-vergine-della-rivelazione/
cathopedia.org/wiki/Vergine_della_Rivelazione
divinarivelazione.org/ita/articolo.asp?id=1
divinarivelazione.org/search/Tre+Fontane/
"The local Church authorities also carried out an investigation, and the cult of the Virgin of Revelation was approved with unusual speed by the Vicariate of Rome. As the number of pilgrims grew the area around the grotto had to be altered to make it safer and more accessible. A special statue, representing Mary during the apparition, was blessed by Pope Pius XII on 5 October 1947, and then taken in procession, amidst huge crowds, from St Peter’s Square to Tre Fontane."
"The Franciscan Conventual Friars Minor were given custody of the grotto in July 1956, and asked to construct a chapel at the site, in addition to administering the shrine. Since then, a prayer to the Virgin of Revelation has been given an imprimatur by the Vicariate of Rome, and the cult was so well recognized that, during Vatican II, numerous prelates went to Tre Fontane to pray."
"In 1987, on the fortieth anniversary of the apparition, Cardinal Poletti, the Cardinal Vicar of Rome, and thus the Pope’s official episcopal representative for the diocese, came to the shrine to celebrate Mass. However, a definitive judgement, either positive or negative in regard of Tre Fontane, has not been made."
"This is probably due, at least in part, to the character of Bruno Cornacchiola; it seems that he went on to claim a total of 28 further apparitions by 1986, with messages which became increasingly apocalyptic in tone, including predictions of various evils which have not materialized. It also seems that he has not been completely truthful in his biography. This is like the tragic history of Mélanie at La Salette; her initial experience was trustworthy, but she allowed events to go to her head in later years."
theotokos.org.uk/the-apparition-at-tre-fontane/
Le apparizioni non sono ancora state riconosciute ufficialmente dalla Chiesa cattolica, ma nel 1956 il Vicariato di Roma, dopo aver consentito la costruzione di unacappella per il culto nel luogo delle apparizioni, ne affidò la custodia e il servizio religioso ai Frati Minori Conventuali.
Nel 1997 papa Giovanni Paolo II approvò la denominazione del luogo come Santa Maria del Terzo Millennio alle Tre Fontane.
Il luogo ha ispirato anche la nascita di una famiglia religiosa, quella delle Missionarie della Divina Rivelazione, fondate da Madre Prisca Mormina: l’11 febbraio 2001, festa di Nostra Signora di Lourdes, la Congregazione ricevette l’approvazione della Diocesi di Roma, a firma del cardinale Camillo Ruini.
papaboys.org/…conda-apparizione-della-vergine-della-rivelazione/
cathopedia.org/wiki/Vergine_della_Rivelazione
divinarivelazione.org/ita/articolo.asp?id=1
divinarivelazione.org/search/Tre+Fontane/
"The local Church authorities also carried out an investigation, and the cult of the Virgin of Revelation was approved with unusual speed by the Vicariate of Rome. As the number of pilgrims grew the area around the grotto had to be altered to make it safer and more accessible. A special statue, representing Mary during the apparition, was blessed by Pope Pius XII on 5 October 1947, and then taken in procession, amidst huge crowds, from St Peter’s Square to Tre Fontane."
"The Franciscan Conventual Friars Minor were given custody of the grotto in July 1956, and asked to construct a chapel at the site, in addition to administering the shrine. Since then, a prayer to the Virgin of Revelation has been given an imprimatur by the Vicariate of Rome, and the cult was so well recognized that, during Vatican II, numerous prelates went to Tre Fontane to pray."
"In 1987, on the fortieth anniversary of the apparition, Cardinal Poletti, the Cardinal Vicar of Rome, and thus the Pope’s official episcopal representative for the diocese, came to the shrine to celebrate Mass. However, a definitive judgement, either positive or negative in regard of Tre Fontane, has not been made."
"This is probably due, at least in part, to the character of Bruno Cornacchiola; it seems that he went on to claim a total of 28 further apparitions by 1986, with messages which became increasingly apocalyptic in tone, including predictions of various evils which have not materialized. It also seems that he has not been completely truthful in his biography. This is like the tragic history of Mélanie at La Salette; her initial experience was trustworthy, but she allowed events to go to her head in later years."
theotokos.org.uk/the-apparition-at-tre-fontane/
"It should be properly translated, "I am she who am in the divine Trinity" or "I am she who is in the divine Trinity."
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Both translations are wrong.
"sono" is 1st person singular so your second proposal is incorrect. As to the first: "she who am"? What language is that?
As I wrote: "sono colui che sono" means: I am who (I) am. The only semantic difference to "sono colei che sono" is that the …More
"It should be properly translated, "I am she who am in the divine Trinity" or "I am she who is in the divine Trinity."
---
Both translations are wrong.
"sono" is 1st person singular so your second proposal is incorrect. As to the first: "she who am"? What language is that?
As I wrote: "sono colui che sono" means: I am who (I) am. The only semantic difference to "sono colei che sono" is that the first one refers to the masculine "I", the second one to the feminine one.
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Both translations are wrong.
"sono" is 1st person singular so your second proposal is incorrect. As to the first: "she who am"? What language is that?
As I wrote: "sono colui che sono" means: I am who (I) am. The only semantic difference to "sono colei che sono" is that the first one refers to the masculine "I", the second one to the feminine one.
One more comment from Live Mike
@Live Mike
Simple things and simple plain words do not require fluency. If you don't believe me ask any Italian or check colui/colei in any dictionary.
As to the Name of God in Italian you can check it here (3,14):
vatican.va/archive/ITA0001/__P1H.HTM
"then how could the Vicariate of Rome in 1947 have possibly missed such a grave error"
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AFAIK there is no official recognition of the apparitions …More
@Live Mike
Simple things and simple plain words do not require fluency. If you don't believe me ask any Italian or check colui/colei in any dictionary.
As to the Name of God in Italian you can check it here (3,14):
vatican.va/archive/ITA0001/__P1H.HTM
"then how could the Vicariate of Rome in 1947 have possibly missed such a grave error"
---
AFAIK there is no official recognition of the apparitions only the Our Lady figure was blessed.
No authority has verified officially the content of the "apparitions". The similar case is with Medjugorje.
Simple things and simple plain words do not require fluency. If you don't believe me ask any Italian or check colui/colei in any dictionary.
As to the Name of God in Italian you can check it here (3,14):
vatican.va/archive/ITA0001/__P1H.HTM
"then how could the Vicariate of Rome in 1947 have possibly missed such a grave error"
---
AFAIK there is no official recognition of the apparitions only the Our Lady figure was blessed.
No authority has verified officially the content of the "apparitions". The similar case is with Medjugorje.
Thanks for the link. "Sono colei che sono nella Trinità divina" or "I am she who is in the divine Trinity" is NOT a declaration of Divinity rather it is quite similar to the following quotations of high Christology in the Holy Gospel according to St. John:
Giovanni 6:56-57
[56] Chi mangia la mia carne e beve il mio sangue dimora in me e io in lui.
[57] Come il Padre, che ha la vita, ha mandato …More
Thanks for the link. "Sono colei che sono nella Trinità divina" or "I am she who is in the divine Trinity" is NOT a declaration of Divinity rather it is quite similar to the following quotations of high Christology in the Holy Gospel according to St. John:
Giovanni 6:56-57
[56] Chi mangia la mia carne e beve il mio sangue dimora in me e io in lui.
[57] Come il Padre, che ha la vita, ha mandato me e io vivo per il Padre, così anche colui che mangia di me vivrà per me.
vatican.va/archive/ITA0001/__PVQ.HTM
Giovanni 10:30
[30] Io e il Padre siamo una cosa sola".
vatican.va/archive/ITA0001/__PVU.HTM
Giovanni 15:4
[4] Rimanete in me e io in voi. Come il tralcio non può far frutto da se stesso se non rimane nella vite, così anche voi se non rimanete in me.
vatican.va/archive/ITA0001/__PVZ.HTM
Giovanni 17:21-23
[21] perché tutti siano una sola cosa. Come tu, Padre, sei in me e io in te, siano anch'essi in noi una cosa sola, perché il mondo creda che tu mi hai mandato.
[22] E la gloria che tu hai dato a me, io l'ho data a loro, perché siano come noi una cosa sola.
[23] Io in loro e tu in me, perché siano perfetti nell'unità e il mondo sappia che tu mi hai mandato e li hai amati come hai amato me.
vatican.va/archive/ITA0001/__PW1.HTM
Giovanni 6:56-57
[56] Chi mangia la mia carne e beve il mio sangue dimora in me e io in lui.
[57] Come il Padre, che ha la vita, ha mandato me e io vivo per il Padre, così anche colui che mangia di me vivrà per me.
vatican.va/archive/ITA0001/__PVQ.HTM
Giovanni 10:30
[30] Io e il Padre siamo una cosa sola".
vatican.va/archive/ITA0001/__PVU.HTM
Giovanni 15:4
[4] Rimanete in me e io in voi. Come il tralcio non può far frutto da se stesso se non rimane nella vite, così anche voi se non rimanete in me.
vatican.va/archive/ITA0001/__PVZ.HTM
Giovanni 17:21-23
[21] perché tutti siano una sola cosa. Come tu, Padre, sei in me e io in te, siano anch'essi in noi una cosa sola, perché il mondo creda che tu mi hai mandato.
[22] E la gloria che tu hai dato a me, io l'ho data a loro, perché siano come noi una cosa sola.
[23] Io in loro e tu in me, perché siano perfetti nell'unità e il mondo sappia che tu mi hai mandato e li hai amati come hai amato me.
vatican.va/archive/ITA0001/__PW1.HTM
Yes, @giveusthisday @Kevin Most Apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary where She speaks critical words regarding churchmen are generally ignored or opposed... e.g. Quito, La Salette, Fatima, Tre Fontane, Akita. | The Virgin of Revelation at Tre Fontane provides us with a small example of Her power to convert the most hardened of sinners & dedicated enemies of the Catholic Church when She instantly …More
Yes, @giveusthisday @Kevin Most Apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary where She speaks critical words regarding churchmen are generally ignored or opposed... e.g. Quito, La Salette, Fatima, Tre Fontane, Akita. | The Virgin of Revelation at Tre Fontane provides us with a small example of Her power to convert the most hardened of sinners & dedicated enemies of the Catholic Church when She instantly converted Bruno (Protestant, anti-Catholic, Communist, would-be papal assassin, abusive father and husband). Our Lady worked this miraculous conversion as a demonstration of Her power - foreshadowing the Conversion of Russia after the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is performed in strict accordance with the command of God given to Sr. Lucy on 13 June 1929 in Tuy, Spain. miraclehunter.com/…ritions/approved_apparitions/trefontane/index.html
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"By 1986 Bruno had claimed 28 additional apparitions by the Virgin, with an increasingly apocalyptic tone. These additional claims, in addition to his questionable character, have prevented the apparition from gaining official approval." This is from the miraclehunter.com link above.