CathPresbyter
75.7K
Holy Cannoli
One thing is certain: Bishop Ochoa's letter is a nearly perfect example of why no one pays attention to bishops anymore.

skellmeyer.blogspot.com/2010/08/spineless.html
CathPresbyter
Too much stuff in the back of the mind of the average parish priest. lol

They weigh and ballence before every word.

Within all these equations, and rhetorical methods, and techniques where is the room for the Holy Spirit. lol

I don't know about this priest what are you talking about? What happened to the poor guy?
Holy Cannoli
I believe that there are 2 crucial points that you have made in your last post.

It is indeed an example of the peace of this world, but wouldn't it do to just discuss his imprisonment, and stop before the song. Or do the song and go no further? They alone illustrate the point.

So, we agree that stories, properly chosen and skillfully edited, can work in a Sunday sermon. It is the result of my …More
I believe that there are 2 crucial points that you have made in your last post.

It is indeed an example of the peace of this world, but wouldn't it do to just discuss his imprisonment, and stop before the song. Or do the song and go no further? They alone illustrate the point.

So, we agree that stories, properly chosen and skillfully edited, can work in a Sunday sermon. It is the result of my naivete, that I omitted the second element in the equation which is very likely always in the back of the mind of nearly every priest in every part of the country when he prepares his sermon.

>>> Would the bishop who allowed that not try to pull the faculties of the priest who preached something do divisive?

Not only must a priest research and fact check and be sure that what he says from the pulpit is authentic Catholic teaching, he must, be extremely careful that his words do not offend anyone, anywhere at any time. You're right, Bishop Sheen would have an extremely difficult time today. Sure, he would modify his style to suit the times, but he would find it impossible to modify his message to suit the times of an emasculated Church whose clergy are afraid of their own shadow. Maybe this is why he was never awarded the Red Hat?

We are all familiar with the case of Fr. Rodriguez from El Paso. His story was featured last month here on GloryTv. For speaking the unambiguous, unadulterated, clear truth that is, indeed taught by the very Church he serves regarding the support of homosexual acts, this priest was publicly reprimanded by his bishop. What kind of message does that send to other priests in El Paso and, indeed, throughout the country? Could something similar happen to them if they “offend” someone by speaking the truth?
Why run the risk? Keep it simple, don't use examples and, most importantly, don't offend anyone. Here we have a not so subtle and a real example of the strong dominating the weak with tragic consequences to the Church.

Is it any wonder that the numbers that should be up in our Church are down (vocations, mass attendance etc.) and the number of things that should be down (artificial contraception, voting for and supporting pro-abort pols, support for “homo marriage” etc.) are up? If lowly priests are worried about the consequences to themselves for teaching the faith to the laity, if they're worried about who might say what to the bishop and how that bishop will then make the priest suffer unpleasant consequences, well, then.....

“It's sad, its so sad
It's a sad, sad situation
And it's getting more and more absurd ”


Doesn't that song lyric give a pretty accurate description of what's happening within today's Church?
CathPresbyter
I know a priest who would complain to the bishop about that. Since he is a marxist, and another who would complain because it harms the attempt at unity we are seeking with the partiotic church.

It is indeed an example of the peace of this world, but wouldn't it do to just discuss his imprisonment, and stop before the song. Or do the song and go no further? They alone illustrate the point.

More
I know a priest who would complain to the bishop about that. Since he is a marxist, and another who would complain because it harms the attempt at unity we are seeking with the partiotic church.

It is indeed an example of the peace of this world, but wouldn't it do to just discuss his imprisonment, and stop before the song. Or do the song and go no further? They alone illustrate the point.

How does your story work at St. Charles Sem, or Dunwoodie that had patriotic seminarians, and even one patriotic priest who said the principal mass on the main alter. Would the bishop who allowed that not try to pull the faculties of the priest who preached something do divisive?

Just curious.
Holy Cannoli
>>>I think a joke can work there, but not a story, it WOULD DISTRACT from the message of our LORD.

I think that would depend on the story.

Since I am playing the role of critic and since I am the one who is talking about examples, stories and specifics, it would only be fair if I gave an example of what I mean. It's way past time to criticize the smartalec, wise guy critic.

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>>>I think a joke can work there, but not a story, it WOULD DISTRACT from the message of our LORD.

I think that would depend on the story.

Since I am playing the role of critic and since I am the one who is talking about examples, stories and specifics, it would only be fair if I gave an example of what I mean. It's way past time to criticize the smartalec, wise guy critic.

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If I may be so bold, Holy Cannoli begins to speak:

#5 Our world is the peace of the strong dominating the weak.

“There are countless examples of the strong dominating the weak throughout the world but I will only site one. That one example should be a concern of all Christian people of faith. I am referring to a godless political system that in addition to being responsibe for tens of millions of murders during the last century, it is still present in our time and causes unspeakable suffering to our fellow Christians in Communist China.

Since his imprisonment by Communist China in 1955, Bishop Kung had not talked to anyone but his captors and members of the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association, a government sanctioned organization that renounced the Pope and appointed its own bishops. But when Bishop Kung was released on "house arrest" in July of 1985 --30 years after his incarceration, he was granted an "audience", so to speak, with Cardinal Sin of the Philippines, who had stopped in China with the hope of contacting Bishop Kung.
The Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association and members of the Chinese government arranged for a banquet with five large tables fastened together.

Cardinal Sin and Bishop Kung were seated on opposite ends of the tables separated by more than 20 Communists. They were not allowed to greet each other or to speak. After awhile, Cardinal Sin suggested that each man sing a song to provide a little stimulation for an otherwise silent gathering. So each man sang a song of his choice. When the time came for Bishop Kung to sing, he chose a song of faith that would convey to Cardinal Sin that in all his years of captivity he never renounced his God or his Church.

After Bishop Kung sang just a few bars, in Latin, of the beloved hymn, "Tu es Petrus et super hanc petram aedificabo Ecclesiam mean. (You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church)", a member-Bishop of the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association informed his superiors of Kung's ruse. Bishop Kung was told to be silent, but he looked at Cardinal Sin and finished the song.

In just five short years, Bishop Kung would become one of the most feared enemies of the Chinese Communists -- a man who would command the attention and devotion of the country's three million Catholics and who would inspire thousands to offer their lives up to God. In defiance of the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association, Bishop Kung, who led the diocese of three large cities in China, invigorated the Legion of Mary. The government declared the Legion of Mary an illegal society that was engaged in espionage under the cloak of religion. It demanded that all members either register in the Public Security Bureau and acknowledge that the Legion was counter-revolutionary, or risk imprisonment.

Cardinal Kung was 86 years old when finally released. In 1987, he came to the United States with his nephew and settled in Stamford, Connecticut.

Within a year, he was well enough to travel to Rome for a private audience with Pope John Paul II. During the meeting, the Holy Father told Bishop Kung that he had elevated him to Cardinal, in pectore, in 1979. He asked that the Chinese prelate keep it a secret until it was announced by the Pope Himself, if ever. Cardinal Kung, ever obedient, did not even tell his own family. On May 29, 1991, the Pope announced to the world that Bishop Kung was in fact a Cardinal since 1979.

Cardinal Kung died March 12, 2000 in Stamford, Connecticut, at the age of 98. He suffered more than 30 years of imprisonment in China for his fidelity to the Pope.

We need to pray daily for our Christian brothers and sisters who are suffering terribly under the brutal domination of Godless communism and totalitarianism throughout the world. Pray for the weak who are suffering at the hands of the strong.
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After hearing something along these lines, do you think parishioners would walk out on me, boo me, or throw rotten fruit?

😲
CathPresbyter
A separate recording device, that would require special software to sync the two up. (Something I am planning to do but not for my sermon for concert I recorded, where some of the video needs syncing. If I fix it up I may upload it, so you may see it, but I have not played with that yet. My camera software does not allow that option, you cannot break audio from video in an edit. So I would have …More
A separate recording device, that would require special software to sync the two up. (Something I am planning to do but not for my sermon for concert I recorded, where some of the video needs syncing. If I fix it up I may upload it, so you may see it, but I have not played with that yet. My camera software does not allow that option, you cannot break audio from video in an edit. So I would have to transfer from one to another, causing resoluation problems.

As for the story. I think a joke can work there, but not a story, it WOULD DISTRACT from the message of our LORD.

Gymicks, which is what stories, allegories, visual, or prop items come down to have to be used very cautiously. (You run the risk of so emphasizing the gymick that people easily loose the point you were trying to make. Good preaching has both a function and a focus, and you run the risk of people seeing the trick and remember the trick and now what it taught.

A good example was a school Mass I was at. The guy used magic tricks. (His pastor later joked that the hardest thing about his magic tricks was when they didn't work. The thought horrified me, the poor guy, how embarassing.) But he did three tricks during the Mass. After the Mass one lady was so happy with him. (At the time I was quite frustrated because it was irrevent, and the best magic trick he had done was making people forget Jesus was present through the Eucharist. Presto Chango Jesus is forgotten. But I decided to ask her. Can you tell me what was the point of his sermon? She said what do you mean. I said what was he trying to make you think about. Or what did you walk away from that sermon wanting to do. Did he teach you anything? You are exicted but did it edify you? She had a blank look on her face.

I said let me ask you this way: Think of the trick he performed. Now what did it have to do with the message of the Scriptures? Blank. How did the trick correspond to your faith? Oh that we fill in the book of our life. I said no that was the trick he did during the kiss of peace. I reminded her of the sermon magic tricks. I said lets take each one, how does it connect? She could not connect it. I summerized the themes in the readings and asked her to connect them. She still could not find any connection between the sermon and the readings.

Why because it was all dazzle no substance. Gimicks must connect to the theme, and there is an exponential curve that you have between the message and the gimick begining to become the message itself thus making people entertained, but not evangelized. St. Paul's rhetorical trick of telling the Athenians that they are 'supersticious' ran a curve of them getting so angry so as to turn him off, yet his tid bit of the resurrection also ran the fear of scaring the stoic thinkers away.

I use Gimicks. I have a few of them I commonly use. I actually have a box of them, and stories are used, but rarely, because the other thing is if you use them alot people just come for them. I knew a great priest, that everyone loved, but his sermons were gimmick driven. When he didn't have a gimick, people were disappointed. The became the rule, so when he broke it due to lack of time to prep, people noticed, but not in a good way.

As for people zoing out in my sermons. That is the one thing that rarely happens. People tell me that I am one of the few priests who keeps their kids entertained through the entire sermon. So people zoning is not my issue. (Frankly that would only be a problem after ten minutes, which is why i rarely do more than eight. We are in the MTV generation low attention rates.) People may walk out on me. (I have seen this many a time, but zone out, rarely.) I tease them about it, but that is the one thing people tell me never happens.
Holy Cannoli
The echo or reverb is annoying. Maybe a different location for the microphone would clear it up. If that's not possible, have a separate recording device located closer to the pulpit.

1) Separates father from son, mother from daughter.
2) He comes to bring division.
3) How does division and peace come together.
4) He came to bring His peace; not the peace the world brings.

5) Our world is the …More
The echo or reverb is annoying. Maybe a different location for the microphone would clear it up. If that's not possible, have a separate recording device located closer to the pulpit.

1) Separates father from son, mother from daughter.
2) He comes to bring division.
3) How does division and peace come together.
4) He came to bring His peace; not the peace the world brings.

5) Our world is the peace of the strong dominating the weak.

Anyone one of your points would be an excellent spot to bring in a story from real life especially point #5 considering the turmoil within so many places in the world today. Specifics, specifics.

Keeping the attention of an audience is no easy task. People zone out or fall asleep (unually not literally) and their mind wanders to all sorts of things totally unrelated to what you are saying. You are in competiton with all of these factors that are working against you.

Generalizations are find to start but concrete examples (specifics), real life current examples, are what focuses our attention and keeps it focused on the subject and the underlying message.

Pax