On the other hand, the 4 liberal groups of nuns who have their headquarters in my diocese have not had professions in 30+ years. I often wonder how an Order of nuns which went from 5,500+ members or more before VAtican II (and there probably were dozens at that time) and now are down to maybe 500-900 members with median age of 81+ never have realized that they have done everything wrong over the last 60 yrs. THey will be gone soon. Collective, deliberate suicide of their orders. Don't mourn for them as they are, they deserve it. But mourn for what they once were, and should still be.