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Six Decades of Data Show: "The Council Was A Failure"

Vatican II was both "necessary" and a failure, Ross Douthat claims on NyTimes.com (October 12).

He believes that the Church needed "some adaptions" after the death of throne-and-altar politics, the rise of liberalism, globalisation, decolonisation, the information age and the social revolutions.

Now, six decades of data show that Vatican II was a failure because it "failed on the terms its own supporters set." It was supposed to make the Church more attractive, dynamic, less closed off and self-referential. "It did none of these things,” Douthat concludes.

The Novus Ordo was supposed to make the faithful more engaged with the Mass but "instead, the faithful began sleeping in on Sunday and giving up Catholicism for Lent.”

The Church declined everywhere in the developed world after Vatican II, under "conservative" and "liberal" popes alike losing Europe to secularism and Latin America to Pentecostalism.

The time after Vatican II became consumed with right-versus-left battles. The Novus-Ordo Church engaged with the world as a "paltry imitation" via middling guitar music, dressed-up versions of left-wing partisanship, and ugly modern churches that were outdated ten years after they were built and empty soon thereafter.

For Douthat there is no way back to the style of papal authority that both John Paul II and Francis have tried to exercise — the former [allegedly] "to restore tradition," the latter to suppress it — "only to find themselves frustrated by the ungovernability of the modern Church.“

Picture: © Lothar Wolleh, wikicommons CC BY-SA, #newsNpobhxlxis

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Dr Bobus

"losing . . . Latin America to Pentecostalism."
I would add Communism

Sally Dorman

Great comment (as always)

mccallansteve

Countless millions lost the faith because of Vatican II and countless millions were never taught it because of Vatican II

rhemes1582

The Catholic Faith governs the church. They need only to hand down the faith unaltered and complete to each generation. Protect and defend. God does the rest, He builds the house.

Sally Dorman

Vatican II is just like Communism: repeated failure, but only because "it's never been really tried."

Sancte Teotónio

Yeah "never fully implemented" or "we are still implementing VAT II"
!!

DrMaria

Words of Pope Benedict XVI before he was elevated to the papacy:
"Certainly, the results [of Vatican II] seem cruelly opposed to the expectations of everyone, beginning with those of Pope John XXIII and then of Paul VI: expected was a new Catholic unity and instead we have been exposed to dissension which---to use the words of Paul VI---seems to have gone from self-criticism to self-destruction. Expected was a new enthusiasm, and many wound up discouraged and bored. Expected was a great step forward, and instead we find ourselves faced with a progressive process of decadence which has developed for the most part precisely under the sign of a calling back to the Council, and has therefore contributed to discrediting it for many. The net result therefore seems negative. I am repeating here what I said ten years after the conclusion of the work: it is incontrovertible that this period has definitely been unfavorable for the Catholic Church."
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger,
L'Osservatore Romano (English edition),
24 December 1984

Sancte Teotónio

Too bad the Ratzinger was a modernist of the same school as the german moderninsts. He was just silent than most and played the role of the more conservative, but still progressive.

Sally Dorman

A damning assessment of the Second Vatican Council and its effects by Ross Douthat.

13

Statistically alone, Vatican II was a tremendous failure, a flop. What is unforgivable is that so many religious Orders, especially of nuns, influenced by the "Spirit of Vatican II" and its radical "reforms" willingly went about destroying their own Orders. The same goes for Orders of priests,brothers, and monks. No one in their right mind could ever claim that for Orders of nuns like the Daughters of Charity and Sisters of Mercy to go from 50,000 and 30,000 members world wide respectively within 60 years of Vatican II to now stand at 12,000 and 2,400 was/is a success. Or the Jesuits declining from 36,100 to 13,700, Franciscans from 28,000 to 11,900, or the Trappist monks from 5,500 to 1,575!
No one but idiots like Pope Francis could claim that Vatican II was a success, or to say (as he did last week), that the Church should be filled with joy over Vatican II and its legacy. He has to be out of his mind. And so do all the aged cardinals, bishops, priests,nuns and laity who think likewise, a rapidly dying group who when gone, will not be missed by remaining Faithful Catholics who will have to rebuild the Church according to the Roman Rite and tradition all over again. But the Church with tradition will spring back to life just as fast as the "reforms" of Vatican II tried unsuccessfully to kill it.

Malki Tzedek

"Failure" is a subjective term. V2 was, apparently, a 'success' for those whose objectives were quite different from what Vatican 2 was 'supposed' to address. The Holy Spirit couldn't find anywhere to roost amongst the predatory cardinals and other birds of prey who saw their opportunity.V2 was a calamity, a disaster, a nuclear attack upon the Church.

Sancte Teotónio

Vat II was a sucess for protestants, jews, hindus, islamics, masons, new world order, modernists, comunists.... basicaly good for everyone but catholics.