@123jussi The message of Medjugorje is Prayer, Fasting and return to Eucharistic Adoration. I think I will go with the hundreds of Bishops and thousands of priests that have been there in person and my own experience having been there in person over an internet video producer who is making money off of every click to his site. As we all know there are videos out there on every subject both pro and con that claim to have "hard evidence" of their side of the issue. If you know your history of other Marian apparitions such as Lourdes and Fatima, prior to the church's final judgement, there were countless Catholics that claimed that the visionaries were frauds or demonic because they did not fit with theirown narrative. Until the church either condemns or gives the final approval of Medjugorje you risk doing incredible harm by taking it upon yourself to judge what only the church has the authority to judge. Our Lady of Fatima pray for us.

@frawley This isn't about one website, it's about lawful ecclesiastical authority, and obeying it. An important document was issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in November 1996 and placed in L’Osservatore Romano. It stated:

“Regarding the circulation of texts of alleged private revelations, the Congregation states: The interpretation given by some individuals to a decision approved by Paul VI on 14 October 1966 and promulgated on 15 November of that year, in virtue of which writings and messages resulting from alleged revelations could be freely circulated in the Church is absolutely groundless. This decision actually referred to the “Abolition of the Index of Forbidden Books” and determined that after the relevant censures were lifted, the moral obligation still remained of not circulating or reading those writings which endanger faith and morals. It should be recalled however, that with regard to the circulation of texts of alleged private revelations, Canon 823#1 of the current code remains in force: “the Pastors of the Church have the … right to demand that writings to be published by the Christian faithful which touch upon faith or morals be submitted to their judgement”. Alleged supernatural revelations and writings concerning them are submitted in first instance to the judgement of the diocesan Bishop, and in particular cases, to the judgement of the Episcopal Conference and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.”

So, in the case of Medjugorje:
1) In the first instance both diocesan Bishops denounced it, evidence of which I have given below. Bishop Peric even stated the non-supernaturality was proven (constat de non supernaturalitate).
2) The Episcopal Conference of Zadar in 1991 stated that "On the basis of studies made so far, it cannot be affirmed that these matters concern supernatural apparitions or revelations." (non constat de supernaturalitate)
3) The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (now known as the DDF) and the Ruini Commission have made no definitive statements.

Those who oppose Medjugorje are not 'taking it upon themselves to judge' - you are doing that, even though you judge favourably. What we are doing is following lawful ecclesiastical authority and accepting that two bishops have denounced it, and further investigations have failed to give it formal ecclesiastical approval (possibly hence the need for an Apostolic Visitor).

@English Catholic The elephant in the room is that the Vatican took the investigation out of the hands of the local bishops. Bishops serving in countries that have governments extremely hostile to the faith are under a lot of pressure to squash any public displays of the faith. The bishop of Mostar supported the visionaries and found them credible in the initial days and then abruptly reversed and would not even meet with them. Troops were sent into Medjugorje and the visionaries and their families were threatened with their lives. The Vatican has appointed an overseer to Medjugorje who lives there full time speaks very favorably. We all await the final determination of the church (which can only take place after the apparitions have concluded). I assure you that should the church's final determination be negative, will be the first in line to drop Medjugorje like a hot potato. As we both know, no Catholic is required to believe in any private revelations. I do wonder why some of the people who spend huge amounts of time and money to create videos on youtube to "expose" Medjugorje do so. You would think that if they do not put any credibility in it they would ignore it. Time will tell. I do not buy that six children came up with this fraud at rsik to their lives and the lives of the families and kept it up without changing their story for over 40 years. I also do not believe that satan leads people back to prayer, confession and the sacraments by the millions. Again I encourge you to pick up the phone and talk to the visionaries youself to get your information first hand.

@frawley Please let's not get silly. How would I have (or get) the seers' phone numbers? Not that I need them anyway. I gave you the CDF Notification on the lawful ecclesiastical authorities regarding apparitions above, but you obviously didn't read it - or read it but ignored it. Once again you repeat the lie that it was 'taken away' from the local bishops, ignoring the fact that Bishop Peric, after stating his conviction that the non-supernaturality had been proven, also stated "Nevertheless I am open to a study that the Holy See would undertake, as the supreme court of the Catholic Church, to speak the supreme and definitive judgment on the case, and that as soon as possible, for the good of souls and for the honor of the Church and of Our Lady." which I put in my comment underneath, with the link. So Bishop Peric actually encouraged the Holy See to take the matter over - it wasn't 'taken away' from him, as if against his will. Again, you either didn't read it or read it and ignored it. There are none so blind as those who will not see. You keep going on about YouTube and videos, but this is a red herring. I am talking about lawful ecclesiastical authority in these matters, which as the CDF Notification states, starts with the local Ordinary and is sometimes referred to the Bishops' Conference or the CDF - not to Bishops or even Cardinals from other dioceses. Why don't you read Bp Zanic's 1990 statement to begin with - I'll give you the link again. Many of the questions you ask will be answered. What have you got to be afraid of? The truth about Medjugorje : Pavao Žanić : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive I have read pro-Medjugorje material, and it hasn't changed my support for the lawful ecclesiastical authorities. You might have your eyes opened. Or maybe that's what troubles you. As Bp Zanic stated "If all the "ugly things" could be made public then surely the answer would be clearly negative to everyone". Since then, a lot of those "ugly things" have been made public and the outcome of some of the cases has been supported - even demanded - by the Holy See. One example here: Tomislav Vlašić - Wikipedia There are many other examples.

@frawley Far from being a 'slick clickbait video' Marco Corvaglia's website is a mine of information on the phenomenon of Medjugorje, and shows up - with hard evidence - the inconsistencies, hypocrisy, celebrity lifestyle and money-grubbing of the alleged 'seers'. If you can't handle that, I'm sorry. And if you're talking about fruits, you have to throw the bad things into the mix as well and admit that they've happened, not just cherry pick the alleged good fruits.

@English Catholic First, you clearly have no first hand knowledge. Second if it were so clear, the church would have condemed it 40 years ago. If the Bishop of Mostar's statements were honest and true the Holy Father would not have taken the responsibility for the investigation away from him. Can you give me another example of satan leading people back to the Euchrist, prayer, confession and turning from their sinful lives? Who in this case are putting themselves above the Holy Roman Catholic Church? Take a deep breath and get some first hand information. Choose holy Catholic priests that you respect that have been there and get their first hand opinions.

Sorry @frawley but I have been researching Medjugorje since about 1990 - over 30 years. The late Fr Hugh Thwaites RIP was the first priest in the UK to contact Bishop Zanic of Mostar. He got Bp Zanic's permission to spread his 1990 document 'The Truth About Medjugorje' warning about this phenomenon, The truth about Medjugorje : Pavao Žanić : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive which I helped Fr Thwaites to distribute. In it, Bp Zanic stated "The most common argument of the defenders of Medjugorje is that the fruits of the events in Medjugorje prove that Our Lady is appearing there. Those who know a bit more than the pilgrims who come to Medjugorje say: the fruits of the staunchest defenders of Medjugorje show that they themselves do not believe in the apparitions. If all the "ugly things" could be made public then surely the answer would be clearly negative to everyone". I then started contacting the Mostar Diocesan Chancery myself and received correspondence over the years from Bp Zanic's successor, Bishop Peric and his deputies. How much more 'first hand' can you get than the local bishops? Bp Peric did actually condemn Medjugorje in the 'non constat de supernaturalitate' (the non-supernaturality is proven) form. And the responsibility for the matter wasn't taken away from him, he was open to a further study on the matter and stated that. This is what he actually wrote (taken from a letter to an individual, reprinted on Catholic Culture website): "my conviction and position is not only non constat de supernaturalitate [the supernaturality is not proven] but also the other formula constat de non supernaturalitate [the non-supernaturality is proven] of the apparitions or revelations of Medjugorje. Nevertheless I am open to a study that the Holy See would undertake, as the supreme court of the Catholic Church, to speak the supreme and definitive judgment on the case, and that as soon as possible, for the good of souls and for the honor of the Church and of Our Lady." Library : Letter to Thierry Boutet It is you that needs to come off pro-Medjugorje websites - which just give one side of the story and always put a positive gloss on everything - and start to do some real investigation. The journalist Mark Waterinckx - who I was in contact with for years - was a huge promoter of Medjugorje. He went there over 20 times and took many people there, but he got too close to the alleged seers and some of the Franciscans and saw what was really going on, and subsequently has spent the rest of his life publicly warning people about it. Of course, he was the darling of Medjugorjists while he was going along with it, now he is vilified by them.
But my initial observation was ignored. Even an ordinary person striving for holiness would shy away from contact with a publicly lewd person like Maja Suput, who is the Croatian version of the pop star 'Madonna' Holy Consistency! Mirjana and an impudent pop star | The Medjugorje Illusion but Mirjana - who claims to see the Mother of God - doesn't seem to have a problem gleefully posing for photos with her at her daughter's wedding.
As for your statement "who in this case are putting themselves above the Holy Roman Catholic Church" - there has been no definitive and clear statement on Medjugorje at the level of the Holy See. Many have stated that the Ruini Commission raised more questions than it answered: The Contradictions of the Commission of Inquiry on Medjugorje | The Medjugorje Illusion In 2017, Pope Francis publicly made negative remarks about Medjugorje, which were reported world-wide "In a hard-hitting rebuff to devotees of the unofficial shrine, the Pope on Saturday scorned the idea of seers’ receiving daily visions of the Virgin Mary. In his most outspoken and critical remarks on the Catholic shrine in Bosnia, Pope Francis has dismissed seers’ claims to have daily visions of the Virgin Mary at Medjugorje as highly improbable and as “without value”. “I prefer the Madonna as mother, our mother, and not a Madonna who is the head of a telegraph office, who every day sends a message at such-and-such an hour. This is not the Mother of Jesus,” the Pope said on Saturday on his way back from the shrine of Fatima in Portugal, where he canonized two early-20th century child visionaries. “Who thinks that the Madonna says: ‘Come tomorrow at this time, and at such time I will deliver a message to that visionary?’” he added, speaking to reporters on the plane." eurasiareview.com/…7-bosnia-medjugorje-shrine-gets-papal-thumbs-down/ Later, a claim was made that he said 'I am the one who saved Medjugorje'. If this is the case, who was he saving it from? The Ruini Commission? Pope Francis: “I Am the One Who Saved Medjugorie” We could argue back and forth all day about this, but I think we'd both have to agree that the situation is highly unsatisfactory for both those who believe in Medjugorje, and those who don't. Although previously condemned by the then Local Ordinary (Bp Peric), so far at the Vatican level, there has been no official approval or condemnation. The Pope has appointed an Apostolic Visitor, currently Archbishop Aldo Cavalli. In the Catholic Church, an apostolic visitor is a papal representative with a mission to perform a canonical visitation, usually of relatively short duration. The visitor is deputed to investigate a special circumstance in a diocese or country, and to submit a report to the Holy See at the conclusion of the investigation.

"Medjugorje Complete: The Definitive Account of the Visions and Visionaries"
Donal Anthony Foley - 2021

amazon.it/…plete-Definitive-Account-Visionaries/dp/162138747X

@Mario Angheran Hi Mario, thanks, yes I know of this book. The late Michael Davies' book has also been posthumously re-released, but obviously, only goes up to a certain point in the Medjugorje saga, but is none the less invaluable as an in-depth exposure of a lot of the early problems. Michael's wife is Croatian so he was in a good position to translate source documents: amazon.co.uk/…d-Contribution-Definitive/dp/1990685404/ref=sr_1_1 and also E Michael Jones 'The Medjugorje Deception: Queen of Peace, Ethnic Cleansing, Ruined Lives' Medjugorje Deception — Fidelity Press is well worth a read. That webpage also contains a video.