Clicks1.1K
en.news
8

The Church Was Already Rotten Before The Council - Father Weinandy Sharply Contradicts John XXIII

Capuchin Father Thomas Weinandy is “uncomfortable" with the conclusion that Vatican II is "the direct source and cause of the present disheartening state of the Church.”

A critic of Francis, Weinandy doesn't deny the huge damage done to the Church in the last decades (InsideTheVatican.com, July 27).

However, for him it's naïve to think that so many priests and faithful were people of deep faith, and then, overnight, were corrupted by the Council and its spirit, and left.

Therefore, he argues that the Council only provided the occasion for the already existing difficulties to come to light, "they were already there, deeply embedded within the Church, prior to the Council.”

Weinandy's thesis sharply contradicts John XXIII who admitted in his Opening Speech for Vatican II (October 11, 1962) that there was no lack of false doctrines, opinions, or dangerous concepts, but then explained that "these things so openly conflict with the right norms of honesty, and have borne such lethal fruits that today people by themselves seem to begin to condemn them and in particular those forms of life which disregard God and his laws, excessive confidence in technological progress, and a prosperity consisting only in the comforts of life."

In the same speech John XXIII insisted that "We must quite disagree with these prophets of doom who are always forecasting disaster, as if the end of the world were at hand." In this speech there is not the slightest confirmation of what Weinandy says about this time - on the contrary.

Weinandy is right when he observes that the bishops have until recently refused to acknowledge the gravity of the situation pretending that affairs within the Church were really not that bad and blaming only “a few vocal extremists” who think otherwise.

For him, it was the media’s abuse hoax, that forced bishops to admit the crisis - while, in reality, abuse cases are a side issue, welcomed by the bishops to distract from the real problems.

Weinandy admits that “some bits and pieces" of the Vatican II teachings "may need revision” but he believes that the Pastoral Council has borne authentic fruit that “is yet to come to full maturity." This is a myth that has been repeated now for decades and, still, nobody has a clue about what this "fruit" could be.

According to Weinandy, Vatican II enabled the election of John Paul II - whom he considers as some kind of a genius although he presided over 30 years of an unprecedented ecclesiastical downfall - the [protestant-leaning] Charismatic renewal and the foundation of blossoming new orders and renewal movements who, one by one, must disavow their corrupt founder.

He also believes that there is a "renewal" of theology, based more on Scripture, the Church Fathers and Church Doctors, with promising [and marginalised] theologians. Yet it is also a fact that such a theology, if it exists, has no audience, because the average Catholic lacks elementary knowledge of the Faith while, since the Council, a majority of the seminarians is kept on a very modest intellectual level.

Dr Bobus
The problems in the Church existed more among certain theologians than among the laity. It was, however, evident that 1, 2, 3 By the Numbers Church, with its over emphasis on method, was running out of steam.

Unfortunately, the Ecu-maniacs were the only ones with an agenda on reform.
HerzMariae
This is John Paul II

Ecumenism, in 1986 Assisi, also in 1986 JP2 speaks of a New World Order at Ghandi’s tomb, 1999: kisses the Qu’ran and in 2000: JP2 sits on a throne (with the ambiguous Inverted Cross) at Korazin.
Be Ye Separate
Jp2, he led pagans: Voodoo believers, Hindus, American Indians... in the prayer ceremony at Assisi.
The Vatican 2 revolt, produced Nostra Aetate, in which the subversive bishops praised Muhammadans, and wrote favorably of pagans.
Previous to the unfaithful modernist V2 popes, for 1,900 years our Church never endorsed praying with demonic pagans or False Francis' worship of mother earth.
St. Paul,…More
Jp2, he led pagans: Voodoo believers, Hindus, American Indians... in the prayer ceremony at Assisi.
The Vatican 2 revolt, produced Nostra Aetate, in which the subversive bishops praised Muhammadans, and wrote favorably of pagans.
Previous to the unfaithful modernist V2 popes, for 1,900 years our Church never endorsed praying with demonic pagans or False Francis' worship of mother earth.
St. Paul, "Bear not the yoke with unbelievers."
Ultraviolet
"The Vatican 2 revolt, produced Nostra Aetate, in which the subversive bishops praised Muhammadans, and wrote favorably of pagans..."

Was Christ "subversive" as well? :P Matthew 5: 44-47 "But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you:
That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to …
More
"The Vatican 2 revolt, produced Nostra Aetate, in which the subversive bishops praised Muhammadans, and wrote favorably of pagans..."

Was Christ "subversive" as well? :P Matthew 5: 44-47 "But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you:
That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.

For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this?

And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this?"


Showing charity to your enemies is the first step to opening their hearts and their minds to the Good News. @Be Ye Stupid .

Of course, you know nothing of that. You're too busy misinterpreting St. Paul. Paul himself explains how we should treat the enemies of The Church in Romans 12: 20.

"But if thy enemy be hungry, give him to eat; if he thirst, give him to drink. For, doing this, thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head."

So Jesus contradicted your opinion of the Council and Paul contradicted your misinterpretation his writing. Two for two, you blew it.
Be Ye Separate
Writing favorably of demonic religions, and praying with their followers as JP2 did in Assisi, is not love of neighbor, it is destructive to them.
Preaching the Holy Word, that Christ Is King, is love of neighbor.
Ultraviolet
...that moment when you realize Christ prayed with non-believers every time he prayed in the Jewish Temple. :D Yeah, you really don't know your Scripture. Spend more time with Jesus, not with Jones.
Wichita Knight
Fr. Weinady is spot on. Councils do not sprout up on a spontaneous whim. They are called to deal with forces already on the move.
Orthocat
Yes but Vatican II billed itself as a "pastoral council" NOT called to address any heresies but to open up and dialogue with the modern world. Seems like things were not addressed, but co-opted!