Gloria.TV Interviews Robert Siscoe and John Salza about their New Book, "True or False Pope?"
Gloria TV Interviews John Salza and Robert Siscoe on their book “True Or False Pope?” www.trueorfalsepope.com Gloria.tv: Your book deals with the subject of Sedevacantism. Can you begin by explaining …More
Gloria TV Interviews John Salza and Robert Siscoe on their book
“True Or False Pope?”
www.trueorfalsepope.com
Gloria.tv: Your book deals with the subject of Sedevacantism. Can you begin by explaining what is meant by this term?
Siscoe/Salza: The term Sedevacantism is derived from the Latin phrase sede vacante, which essentially means “the seat is vacant.” The Sedevacantists reject the legitimacy of the last six Popes (some reject centuries of Popes) and therefore hold that the Papal See (sede) has been vacant (vacante) for at least the past six decades.
What is the principle error of the Sedevacantist thesis?
Siscoe/Salza: The principle error is the rejection of the legitimacy of the lawfully elected successors to St. Peter, by an act of private judgment. They claim that the recent Popes have all be false Popes.
In the book, you mention a second fundamental error of Sedevacantism. Can you explain this? Siscoe/Salza: The second error which follows almost immediately from the first (and …More
“True Or False Pope?”
www.trueorfalsepope.com
Gloria.tv: Your book deals with the subject of Sedevacantism. Can you begin by explaining what is meant by this term?
Siscoe/Salza: The term Sedevacantism is derived from the Latin phrase sede vacante, which essentially means “the seat is vacant.” The Sedevacantists reject the legitimacy of the last six Popes (some reject centuries of Popes) and therefore hold that the Papal See (sede) has been vacant (vacante) for at least the past six decades.
What is the principle error of the Sedevacantist thesis?
Siscoe/Salza: The principle error is the rejection of the legitimacy of the lawfully elected successors to St. Peter, by an act of private judgment. They claim that the recent Popes have all be false Popes.
In the book, you mention a second fundamental error of Sedevacantism. Can you explain this? Siscoe/Salza: The second error which follows almost immediately from the first (and …More
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Jungerheld and one more user link to this post
This is not as confusing as people think; but it does require Catholics to challenge their belief systems. The real explanation for the Vatican II crisis is found in a new book that no side (sedes, trad caths, or modernists) wants you to read, "The Sedevacantist Delusion" selling on amazon.
Gloria Thomas
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The proposed council could not serve as a solution to our dilemma simply because it does not and cannot exist except as the longed for result of a solution that would engender it. If the reigning magisterium, either by commission or omission, collaborates in apostasy, simply to imagine how perfect it would be if they would rule against themselves is feckless.
Rafał_Ovile
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VRS I found a competent source to answer your objection by the distinction between a Perfect and Imperfect Council. - How can the Church convene a general council to oversee such a situation, when a general council must be called and overseen by a Pope, either personally or through his legates?
Rafał_Ovile
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VRS I question the following conclusion you've drawn: " I.e. unless the Pope agrees to lose the office he will not lose it -> the Church is unarmed against the heretical Pope." Neither John of St. Thomas nor TOFP have written that a Pope who is a formal heretic must call a General Council specifically to address his heresy. This is illogical and I doubt John of St. Thomas came to such faulty …More
VRS I question the following conclusion you've drawn: " I.e. unless the Pope agrees to lose the office he will not lose it -> the Church is unarmed against the heretical Pope." Neither John of St. Thomas nor TOFP have written that a Pope who is a formal heretic must call a General Council specifically to address his heresy. This is illogical and I doubt John of St. Thomas came to such faulty conclusions. Again, try to understand that such a declaration might hypothetically come about extempore. Did pope Francis call the Synod of the Family to receive a "warning" letter from the 13 Cardinals? No. A similar situation could occur at a Council addressing a completely different matter. In extraordinary situations in the Church Catholics should devoutly implore Our Lady to deepen faith in the Holy Trinity and rely on Holy Spirit's help to solve crisis.
2 more comments from Rafał_Ovile
Rafał_Ovile
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VRS To comprehend how Church declaration, the dispositive cause, leads to efficient cause, Jesus Himself severing the bond, can be understood in light of God's words "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed."
"...heretical but valid Pope assembles the general council..." Is there evidence …More
VRS To comprehend how Church declaration, the dispositive cause, leads to efficient cause, Jesus Himself severing the bond, can be understood in light of God's words "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed."
"...heretical but valid Pope assembles the general council..." Is there evidence in S&S writings that the council should be called, hypothetically speaking, to address solely the matter of pope's heresy. As I understand, it could be a council/assembly where such a declaration might occur extempore.
"...heretical but valid Pope assembles the general council..." Is there evidence in S&S writings that the council should be called, hypothetically speaking, to address solely the matter of pope's heresy. As I understand, it could be a council/assembly where such a declaration might occur extempore.
Rafał_Ovile
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Gloria Thomas The Church can never pass out of existence since God said that gates of hell will not prevail against His Church. If a man, a pope, who teaches material or formal heresy could automatically fall out of office through private opinion or law without disposition then for many faithful Church would visibly cease to exist and cease to be Jesus's Church. For this reason a Church declaration …More
Gloria Thomas The Church can never pass out of existence since God said that gates of hell will not prevail against His Church. If a man, a pope, who teaches material or formal heresy could automatically fall out of office through private opinion or law without disposition then for many faithful Church would visibly cease to exist and cease to be Jesus's Church. For this reason a Church declaration(material) is required to prove the crime (formal heresy) leading to efficient cause. Thereafter, Christ's bond(formal) ceases with Pope severed by Him, not by the declaration of men, the dispositive cause. VRS In light of today's difficult situation where the heresy of modernism infected the vast majority of prelates the letter of 13 Cardinals at the Synod of the Family resisting pope Francis can exemplify of how a Church declaration of the crime of heresy could be issued in the future.
In conclusion, in the present trial of faith all Catholics should exercise the love of the Church explained by the rule Archbishop Lefebvre always observed: "to follow Providence in all circumstances, without ever allowing oneself to anticipate it. We mean to do the same: either when Rome returns to Tradition and to the Faith of all time which would re-establish order in the Church; or when she explicitly acknowledges our right to profess integrally the Faith and to reject the errors which oppose it, with the right and the duty for us to oppose publicly the errors and the proponents of these errors, whoever they may be which would allow the beginning of a re-establishing of order. Meanwhile, faced with this crisis which continues its ravages in the Church, we persevere in the defence of Catholic Tradition and our hope remains entire, as we know by the certitude of Faith that the gates of hell will not prevail against her. (Mt 16:18)
In conclusion, in the present trial of faith all Catholics should exercise the love of the Church explained by the rule Archbishop Lefebvre always observed: "to follow Providence in all circumstances, without ever allowing oneself to anticipate it. We mean to do the same: either when Rome returns to Tradition and to the Faith of all time which would re-establish order in the Church; or when she explicitly acknowledges our right to profess integrally the Faith and to reject the errors which oppose it, with the right and the duty for us to oppose publicly the errors and the proponents of these errors, whoever they may be which would allow the beginning of a re-establishing of order. Meanwhile, faced with this crisis which continues its ravages in the Church, we persevere in the defence of Catholic Tradition and our hope remains entire, as we know by the certitude of Faith that the gates of hell will not prevail against her. (Mt 16:18)
To VRS:
"For indeed the Church has the right, by divine law, to separate herself from an heretical pope. Consequently she has the right, by the same divine law, to use all means of themselves necessary for such separation, and the means that are ‘of themselves (per se) necessary’ are those that are legally able to prove such crime; but one cannot prove the crime legally unless there be a competent …More
To VRS:
"For indeed the Church has the right, by divine law, to separate herself from an heretical pope. Consequently she has the right, by the same divine law, to use all means of themselves necessary for such separation, and the means that are ‘of themselves (per se) necessary’ are those that are legally able to prove such crime; but one cannot prove the crime legally unless there be a competent judgment; and in such a grave matter as this, the only competent judgment is that of a general council. Because we are treating here with the Universal head of the Church, this pertains to the judgment of the universal Church, which is a General Council" (John of St. Thomas)
"For indeed the Church has the right, by divine law, to separate herself from an heretical pope. Consequently she has the right, by the same divine law, to use all means of themselves necessary for such separation, and the means that are ‘of themselves (per se) necessary’ are those that are legally able to prove such crime; but one cannot prove the crime legally unless there be a competent judgment; and in such a grave matter as this, the only competent judgment is that of a general council. Because we are treating here with the Universal head of the Church, this pertains to the judgment of the universal Church, which is a General Council" (John of St. Thomas)
A documentary of "Pope Michael" (mentioned in this interview) can be viewed here:
www.youtube.com/watch This is one of the many men who have been elected by the Sedevacantists sects as "Pope".
www.youtube.com/watch This is one of the many men who have been elected by the Sedevacantists sects as "Pope".
One more comment from TOFP
To read Salza and Siscoe's responses to Fr. Cekada, see: www.trueorfalsepope.com/p/sedevacantist-watch.html
SGGResources
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To balance Salza and Siscoe's views, see Fr. Cekada's Stuck in a Rut: Anti-Sedevacantism in the Age of Bergoglio and his Why Are Traditionalists Afraid of Sedevacantism?
Gloria Thomas
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Is this not a confusion between what should be and what is? A pope should always teach the truth, and the faithful should always believe him. But should a pope not teach the truth, the faithful should not believe him. If we must guard ourselves against our own pope, what good is all the canon law in the world while it serves only to protect him in his errors? " My sheep hear my voice..."