tbswv
How is that Jewish religious leaders have any influence in the inner workings of the Roman Church? Answer: Oecuminism. They are as arrogant now as when they were during Christ's time. The Roman Catholic Church was founded by Christ Himself. The Jews rejected Our Lord as their Messaiha, and still reject Him to this day. So, no they are not on equal footing with the Roman Catholic Church and in …More
How is that Jewish religious leaders have any influence in the inner workings of the Roman Church? Answer: Oecuminism. They are as arrogant now as when they were during Christ's time. The Roman Catholic Church was founded by Christ Himself. The Jews rejected Our Lord as their Messaiha, and still reject Him to this day. So, no they are not on equal footing with the Roman Catholic Church and in fact are enemies of Christianity. I know, too harsh for some on this web site to accept. Read some excerpts from the Talmud and you'll know that I am talking about. Not even the Koran is as disrespectful when referring to Jesus who they view as a prophet. And whenever any pope invites this group to a prayer meeting or prays in their Synogogue it minimizes our Lord's salvific mission.
thelastconvert
No one should be surprised with this!
Many of the people in the Vatican do not believe in Our Lord or Our Lady (they just work there). This topic is a safe side issue and is put up to distract you from the real issue. When the "Peace Plan of Assisi" replaced the "Peace Plan of Our Lady of Fatima" things changed. The issue concerning the Jews and other issues like this are just distractions. Dig …More
No one should be surprised with this!
Many of the people in the Vatican do not believe in Our Lord or Our Lady (they just work there). This topic is a safe side issue and is put up to distract you from the real issue. When the "Peace Plan of Assisi" replaced the "Peace Plan of Our Lady of Fatima" things changed. The issue concerning the Jews and other issues like this are just distractions. Dig a little deeper. . .
😡
holyrope 3
@AaronBrennan... 🤗 And how do you think we can "focus" on all the disobedient priests, pastors and bishops...you know those who try to refuse us Communion because we wish to kneel or even receive on the tongue? The same priests and pastors who tell the faithfull and the 1st communicants that they are to receive ONLY in the hand while standing? And the pastors who have refused boys for training …More
@AaronBrennan... 🤗 And how do you think we can "focus" on all the disobedient priests, pastors and bishops...you know those who try to refuse us Communion because we wish to kneel or even receive on the tongue? The same priests and pastors who tell the faithfull and the 1st communicants that they are to receive ONLY in the hand while standing? And the pastors who have refused boys for training as altar servers because they say "they need to train more girls first." The list is too long, but thought we could start with the above.
Temperance
I believe that theschism with theLefebvrists is more important than the Jews! The Jews have had 2000 years to join and haven't! If we forget about theLefebvrists the Jews still wouldn't convert. They had Christ Himself and they killed Him. They will only convert when God wills it. It is more important to focus on our fallen priests the Lefebvrists. 🤦
ACLumsden
Back to the topic at hand: I believe that the priority of Holy Mother Church is the Salvation of Souls. There is NO segregation, prejudice or heirarchy of importance: jew, gentile; African, Polynesian; Caribbean, American; British, Roman - all are the Lord's and ALL are loved by God; ALL are worth the Church's attention and evangelisation efforts.
ACLumsden
SBpfu - 🤗
2 more comments from ACLumsden
ACLumsden
SBpfu 🤗 Quite...... 🙂 Therefore? The egg is on the faces of the ill-bred chaps on this thread. This is simply because it took a littera legis stand to stop it; a thing most unfortunate indeed, for it betokens a personality which is quite arrested (as I have described below). Let us therefore keep these chaps in prayer.
ACLumsden
Hi SBpfu - 🤗 Indeed, as I said before, the comments made by some rather ill-bred chaps on this thread are NOT to be condoned in the least. On the other hand, why does it have to take an actual legal tenet, i.e. Canon 1369, to make your point? This is my point. Only children require that nexus of littera legis to live! (Far less a civilised life - they do not have one of their own (as I have …More
Hi SBpfu - 🤗 Indeed, as I said before, the comments made by some rather ill-bred chaps on this thread are NOT to be condoned in the least. On the other hand, why does it have to take an actual legal tenet, i.e. Canon 1369, to make your point? This is my point. Only children require that nexus of littera legis to live! (Far less a civilised life - they do not have one of their own (as I have already said)). One need not even appeal to Church Law to make one's point clear SBpfu; human and Chrisitan morals and ethics are quite enough.

(Do keep in mind Greg and SBpfu, that the People of God for whom the Church legislates are NOT monolithic. What YOU understand by canon 1369 would be construed rather differently by peoples of, say, Hati or Brasilia..... according to culture and custom.)

On the other hand, that rules and regulations are being slung, does not augur well for the maturity of all involved! That rational and systematic discourse based on adult human reasoning be unattainable in this matter with the aforementioned, is the worrying matter of all of this!
😇 🤗
Holy Cannoli
Jacobitess,

Thanks for staying on topic and avoiding the snide remarks from the pompous, pretensions, and patronizing, holier than thou, super Catholics who so often stray off topic.

👌

You are correct. If the Jews object to the SSPX's reunification, let's cancel Assisi. It wouldn't be a party without the Jews.

In addition, the Church should NOT pursue their conversion and it should purge …More
Jacobitess,

Thanks for staying on topic and avoiding the snide remarks from the pompous, pretensions, and patronizing, holier than thou, super Catholics who so often stray off topic.

👌

You are correct. If the Jews object to the SSPX's reunification, let's cancel Assisi. It wouldn't be a party without the Jews.

In addition, the Church should NOT pursue their conversion and it should purge the New Testament from any verses that may be construed as anti-Semitic. It would probably be a good idea to remove the entire Gospel of John for this reason. The Catholic church should alter its liturgy, it should refuse to canonize Pius XII, and it should never do anything without expressed approval of our “elder brothers in the faith” (who, in Israel, literally spit on their younger Christian brothers) the "blameless" Jews.

🤐

Here's a prayer from the Good Friday liturgy at Byzantine Catholic Churches:. I doubt that during our lifetime we will see anything similar in the Roman Catholic Church.

"Lord, the Jews condemned you, the life of all, to death; those who by a staff crossed the Red Sea on foot nailed you to a cross, and those who sucked honey from a rock offered you gall. But you endured willingly, that you might free us from the slavery of the foe. Christ God, glory to you!....As you were dragged to the Cross, Lord, you cried out thus: For what work do you wish to crucify me, O Jews? Because I braced the paralytic? Because I raised the dead from sleep? I healed the woman with an issue of blood, I took pity on the woman of Canaan. For what work do you wish to slay me, O Jews? But, transgressors, you will see Christ whom now you pierce....Thus says the Lord to the Jews, ‘My people, what have I done to you? Or in what have I wearied you? I gave light to your blind, I cleansed your lepers, I set upright a man lying on a bed. My people, what have I done to you, and how have you repaid me? Instead of the manna gall; instead of the water vinegar; instead of loving me, you have nailed me to a cross. I can endure no longer; I will call my nations, and they will glorify me, with the Father and the Spirit; and I shall grant them eternal life. ...Lawgivers of Israel, Jews and Pharisees, the choir of the Apostles cries out to you, ‘See a Temple, which you have destroyed! See a Lamb, whom you have crucified! You handed him over to a tomb, but by his own authority he has risen. Do not be deceived, O Jews, for it is he who saved you in the sea, and fed you in the desert; he is the life and the light and the peace of the world...."

and there's this...

CATHECISM OF ST PIUS X (1907): Who are infidels? A: Infidels are those who have not been baptized and do not believe in Jesus Christ, because they either believe in and worship false gods as idolaters do, or though admitting ONE TRUE GOD, they do not believe in the Messiah, neither as already come in the Person of Jesus Christ, nor as to come; for instance, MOHAMMEDANS and the like.

☕
Jacobitess
Is that so? Well, I think it would be rude to have the Assisi meeting without the Jews, so let's cancel it! Yea! Let's be ecumenical and cancel Assisi! 👏
ACLumsden
And that is what I am talking about SBpfu, viz. the quoting canon law without commentary. As I have said "eat green apples!" being spoken to people in the Sudan!

What does it mean "utters blasphemy, gravely injures good morals, expresses insults, or excites hatred or contempt against religion of the Church...."? Who is to interpret this, you? Are you qualified to do so? For whom is this canon …More
And that is what I am talking about SBpfu, viz. the quoting canon law without commentary. As I have said "eat green apples!" being spoken to people in the Sudan!

What does it mean "utters blasphemy, gravely injures good morals, expresses insults, or excites hatred or contempt against religion of the Church...."? Who is to interpret this, you? Are you qualified to do so? For whom is this canon law written? The people of God of course, but the people of God are NOT monolithic......

I strongly disagree with this legalistic, littera legis approach of yours.
ACLumsden
Hi SBpfu - 🤗 . Ah, so it is the disrespect for the human being and the office of Bishopm presbyter, etc that is troubling you. I see your stance now more clearly. However, I'm with 'philosopher' on this: there is nothing wrong with disagreement with a prelate, as long as his person and office are respected.

😇
philosopher
Hello ACL 👍 To your recent posts, bravo! and well said. We Catholics are not slavish drones, but are Imago Dei. We can indeed disagree, with the emphasis on respectful disagreement, with a Pope or Bishop, whom, while having legitimate authority in practical matters makes a tremendous blunder or mess of things, all the while, remaining in obedience and still loyal to the Holy Father, and the …More
Hello ACL 👍 To your recent posts, bravo! and well said. We Catholics are not slavish drones, but are Imago Dei. We can indeed disagree, with the emphasis on respectful disagreement, with a Pope or Bishop, whom, while having legitimate authority in practical matters makes a tremendous blunder or mess of things, all the while, remaining in obedience and still loyal to the Holy Father, and the Church. My comments were never directed presently, but historically. We mentioned, JPII's debacle of the Assisi prayer service and kissing a blasphemous and heretical book (that was a bad judgment call on his part). Dante, also, protested against a late Medieval Pope, that threatened his mistress with excommunication if she left him, another Renaissance Pope ordered one group of soldiers to attack a city-state on pain of excommunication if they didn't kill every man woman and child to the last. In these situations, which have nothing to do in terms of dogma and doctrine, we can't as Catholics say, don't criticize, don't you believe in the Holy Spirit? But, these examples are not from the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of the devil.

Verum amissa cordibus nostris nunquam simus mentes nostras.

Pax exitus,
🧐
ACLumsden
Hi SBpfu - 🤗 . I extrapolated from the premises of your post. This was because I am not an advocate of intelligent men living "secvndvm solvm regvlas"; like children without a good unbringing must do. This has bearing upon you quoting Canon Law without professional commentary - SBpfu, are you a Canon Lawer? As I have said, Canon Law is NOT like unto civil law whereby if canon X says "eat green …More
Hi SBpfu - 🤗 . I extrapolated from the premises of your post. This was because I am not an advocate of intelligent men living "secvndvm solvm regvlas"; like children without a good unbringing must do. This has bearing upon you quoting Canon Law without professional commentary - SBpfu, are you a Canon Lawer? As I have said, Canon Law is NOT like unto civil law whereby if canon X says "eat green apples" we all go out and eat green apples! How would those in areas of the world where apples are not able to grow follw canon X? Herein lies the duty of a Canon Lawer - the hermeneutics of implimentation. Therefore, I disagree with your legalistic stance.
ACLumsden
@Trinitas - Quite! That vicar is quite mistaken. Since the 10 commandments form the foundation of the superstructure upon which Christ walked and founded The Way (Chrisitanity). Speaking one Brit to another, could this be behind our downfall as a Country?
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Trinitas
An erudite Church of England vicar once said to me that the
Ten Commandants were for a nomadic people. How truly
he spoke; we have wandered far from God in our lives.
ACLumsden
Hi Greg, 🤗 I disagree. I think that slavish following of law betokens a man not free. He relies on an external nexus of rules and regulations to make sense of his internal disorder or lack of interior maturation and /or development. My point is that Church law is not meant to be equivalent to temporal law in the sense of which I have already discussed below.

However, Church law is indeed there …More
Hi Greg, 🤗 I disagree. I think that slavish following of law betokens a man not free. He relies on an external nexus of rules and regulations to make sense of his internal disorder or lack of interior maturation and /or development. My point is that Church law is not meant to be equivalent to temporal law in the sense of which I have already discussed below.

However, Church law is indeed there to FORM our interior selves, so that in time we grow beyond the law (hence the coming of the Messiah to COMPLETE the law....and that the "law brings death", and all the rest of it...). It is rather like the rearing of a child. Rules and regulations are enjoined upon the child because the child has none of its own. In time, after repeatedly following these rules and regulations, the rules and regulations become part of the child's psyche and forms a foundation, a starting point from which the child can form and make its OWN decisions as an adult.

However, I think that a via media between the understanding of Anglo-Saxon Law and Roman Law is prefered. If the child does not grow beyond the letter-of-the-law stance, the child remains a child for the rest of its life, unable to reason and make decisions on its own, always refering to a code of exact regvli- the child remains fettered to the childhood nexus of law, the breast-milk of living if you will, without ever eating solid food, i.e. going beyond the initials, resulting in the stagnation of human maturation and development.

Hence the slavish or childish following of littera avtem legis is not ahealthy thing at all. On the other hand, in order to keep order and to have a starting point from which to live, law is necessary. HOWEVER, one ought never to confuse temporal law with church law (as many a Desert Father has done....cf. Apophthegmata Patrvm).
ACLumsden
SBpfu - I have difficulties with two of your statements:

"Canon Law--binding upon Catholics--is actually pretty clear on the comportment of Catholics, especially in public, with regard to the Pope, to say nothing of the prelature, priests, etc."

and....

"If Catholics want to say anything they please, can't they become Quakers or Unitarians?"

The organised religion of which you seem to speak …More
SBpfu - I have difficulties with two of your statements:

"Canon Law--binding upon Catholics--is actually pretty clear on the comportment of Catholics, especially in public, with regard to the Pope, to say nothing of the prelature, priests, etc."

and....

"If Catholics want to say anything they please, can't they become Quakers or Unitarians?"

The organised religion of which you seem to speak is more like a concentration camp on the one hand or a WACO commune on the other. In both of these situations the human being, as a free agent, endowed with free will, is controlled and told what to think, do and even feel, by one man, by one law, with fear. This is the stripping of the human being of his dignity as a free creature of God - NOT a Christian thing in the least.

I am affraid dear brother your post, in timbre, sounds rather akin to the aforementioned, rather than a Roman Catholic point of view. According to Gaudium et Spes man is FREE in his thoughts, and FREE to discuss and "work out his own salvation in fear and trembling" (St Paul).

On the other hand, we have the fact that Christian charity (Evangelical) enjoins upon Christian men, the rule and discipline of Christian behaviour (both in society and in private). Hence Roman Catholic morals and ethics. However, these in no way equal temporal law (as implied by yourself), i.e. Slander in criminal law = or is the same as, expressing a personal, cogent, civily expressed veiw on any matter of the Church.

Herein is to be found the difficulty in the Anglo-Saxon West with Roman Law. We tend to see law as LAW, i.e. when the traffic light says RED there is only ONE appropriate decision to make STOP driving; whereas, if you have been to any of the Latin countries, this same situation offers any number of alternative decisions, GO! Swerve and drive over the island!, etc. etc..... This is why there are Canon Lawers to interpret the canons for us..... we would just read them a adhere to them like traffic law - a 'letter-of-the-law' stance! Holy Mother Church, like Our Lord, sensible of man's freedoms and difficulties and weaknesses in his journey unto the truth, is not 'black-and-white' like temporal law..... if this were so, many of us would have NO hope at all!

Therefore, returning to my opening paragraph, I think that a 'letter-of-the-law' approach to the Church yeilds a very unfortunate situation of mind. This is not very different to a concentration camp pn the one hand or a WACO- esque construct on the other.
Trinitas
Philosopher, I fully take on board your concerns regarding
the placement of the Buddha statue in a Catholic Church,
and the kissing of the Koran by Blessed Pope John Paul II.

Erratum

The gift of the ornate Koran was presented to Blessed
Pope John Paul II by a visiting Iraqi Muslim delegation
(led by the Patriarch of Babylon of the Chaldeans) at
the end of a Papal Audience in Rome, May 14, 1999.…
More
Philosopher, I fully take on board your concerns regarding
the placement of the Buddha statue in a Catholic Church,
and the kissing of the Koran by Blessed Pope John Paul II.

Erratum

The gift of the ornate Koran was presented to Blessed
Pope John Paul II by a visiting Iraqi Muslim delegation
(led by the Patriarch of Babylon of the Chaldeans) at
the end of a Papal Audience in Rome, May 14, 1999.


Apologies for incorrect date and location, Seán.
Bob Jones papist
timely reflection(from like 1995), on the differences in outlook toward the Church, from a Traditional viewpoint, and thoughts on Msgr Lefbvre
gloria.tv/post/aKhyAFK8zfwv4Ct82wnF23MNz 🙂