The Council of Jerusalem and the following ecumenical councils gathered because of doctrinal problems to be decided. Dearly beloved by Commies (Metz agreement) and Jews (Strasburg talks of Fr. Congar) pope Roncalli convoked VII because he had wanted to. Then almost all schemas prepared by papal preparatory commissions got lost because the spirit of Alfrink, Koenig, Suenens, etc. wanted them in the trash can. Previous ecumenical councils taught as the extraordinary Magisterium , VII expressly resigned from the role of the extraordinary Magisterium (and the ecumenical council as such is extraordinary teaching body). Also the matters involved and discussed: heretic sects as sources of salvation, false religions, liberty of false religions, new world order and so do not pertain to oikumene i.e. the Catholic church thus are not ecumenical in the traditional meaning.
Ideas discussed were anything but orthodox and the mess arising was enormous e.g. as young bishop Karol Wojtyla remarked (but did not draw logical conclusions): it seemed to the founding fathers that the situation of men inside the Church with respect to salvation is much worse than the situation of men outside the Church who did not know the Church.Yes they were that insane.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church, [Cf Credo Chart]

Articles 8 & 9 of the Creed.

And not:

Archbishop Marcel-François Lefebvre, C.S.Sp. † and his group

De Mattei and the Trad circles

Abp Viganò

@Dr Bobus

Et al

With the council that was supposed to 'let the fresh air in.' What have we seen?

- A severe lack of men entering the priesthood
- A lack of belief in the Real Presence--this includes Holy Communion in the hand/unconsecrated hands touching that which is consecrated & the Holy Eucharist (the precious Body, Blood, Soul & Divinity of our Redeemer) being passed out in sealed bags like a cracker instead of being received reverently as He deserves.
- A constant questioning of Dogma / vague & ambiguous wording for 'teachings' that leave interpretation up to the reader instead of defining something.
- Continued push for women's ordination (after the door to this has already closed)
- female altar boys (this is the first place a young man can discern if he has a call to the priesthood. You are limiting the recruiting pool by sticking girls there)
- Doubt of Our Lady's role as Co-Redemptrix & downplay her importance in our salvation.
- 'God wills multiple religions'/completely contradicts the First Commandment/dogma & what sacred scripture says
- Amazon idolatry/the desecration of the Catholic altar in the Vatican
- Confusion among the faithful
- Less children being born into the world & the ones that are born are rarely receiving all the sacraments
- People leaving the church in droves

I didn't bother including the sodomite scandals, to include trying to normalize sodomite unions, in there as St. Peter Damien had to deal with sodomites also. So, that vice has been in the church prior to V2.

There's obviously more that that. The Holy Ghost did guide that council. He guided them NOT to dare try to invoke infallibility.

"We must obey every law of our great Church. We must follow Saint Athanasius, and not follow evil false laws." -not for you to decide which laws are "false". @Be Ye Heretic That reasoning opens the door to exactly the kind of drivel you and EMJ want to drive through it. Nice to see you're still flaming about Nostra Aetate as if that were the ONLY thing Vatican II produced. For bigots, it's the only thing that matters.

JPII is officially a Catholic saint, btw. Just like Athanasius. Saints, are neither perfect nor without sin, nor without errors. Like always, you're just picking one saint you like because he was anti-Semitic. Good for you, bunky. Saint JPII wasn't and he was a Pope, too.

Protip: It's "Athanasius", champ. Double-check how EMJ spells it. Or did he get it wrong too? :D

@F M Shyanguya You are absolutely correct, we must obey every law of our great Church. We must follow Saint Athenasius, and not follow evil false laws. Although he was persecuted and terribly outnumbered, he followed Church law-the truth, instead of going along with the numerous bishops who were evil or mistakingly fell into heresy.
We will know a tree by the fruit. The evil bishops at V2 got what they wanted. They praised Muhammadans, Hinduism and other pagan cults. The rotten fruit this helped produce was JP2 worshipping with demonic pagans: "Pope John Paul II and the representatives of the world’s religions, including a Crow Indian medicine man from Montana and an African animist witch doctor, pledged Monday to work for peace." -LA Times
The evil fruit rots even more, with anti-pope Francis heading pagan idol worship at our most important Church on the earth!
We must be like St. Athenasius, live by the true teachings of our Holy Church.

@Be Ye Separate Pls see this comment of mine here:

The trajectory is quite clear and historical proven. Reject any of the Church’s Ecumenical Councils and one ends up attacking/being separated from the Church [Abp Lefebvre and his group] and eventually from God.

The arrogance here is astounding and also revealing the source of it. One reason De Mattei rejects the Council is because it didn’t take up what he would have liked to have seen on its agenda. And now worse, even the Holy Spirit should have ensured that that was tabled for discussion. Astonishing! Amazing !

This statement by Mattei, in a confusing manner is condemning Vatican 2.
Mattei," ...Monsignor Gherardini to Cardinal Brandmüller, when they say the magisterial value and the binding authority of the conciliar texts has still all to be discussed, without excluding the idea that many of those documents might end up one day in the rubbish bin."
If the V2 documents are of the Holy Spirit and Church law, the magisterial value and binding authority would NOT have to be discussed.
Also, the Holy Spirit does NOT lead in works that might end up in the rubbish bin.

Pope Pius XI– The Communist system, with its authors and abettors condemned
-Communism is intrinsically wrong and no one may collaborate with it in any undertaking whatsoever
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith– Formal prohibition to join or favor Communist Parties – latae sententiae excommunication
Pope John XXIII– No Catholic can subscribe even to moderate Socialism – opposition between Communism and Christianity is fundamental. www.tfp.org/what-the-popes-…

No Jettisoning or Correcting Vatican II

“He can no longer have God for his Father, who has not the Church for his mother.”
- St Cyprian of Carthage, Church Father