Cannoli
The Church recognizes that God does not condemn those who are innocently ignorant of the truth about his offer of salvation.
Lionel:
Yes, theoretically, in faith.
In reality there is no such case in 2016.We do not know any one as such who could be an exception to the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma in 2016.
So if your suggesting that there are such known cases this year it is irrational reasoning.
_______________________________

Regarding the doctrine in question, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (quoting Vatican II document Lumen Gentium, 16) states:
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This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847)

Lionel:
Yes hypothetically they can be saved if God chooses and they meet the conditions accepted by God.But why are you mentioned this with reference to the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Fr. Leonard Feeney said all need to enter the Church, all need faith and the baptism of water for salvation.There are no exceptions. Arwe you suggesting Lumen Gentium 16 is an exception to the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus? In other words it refers to a known case of somene saved without faith and baptism, and whom you know in the present times(2016)?

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Vatican II document Gaudium Et Spesteaches similarly on the possibility of salvation:
Lionel:
Yes.A possibility of salvation however is not a known case of salvation in 2016.
___________________________________
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All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men, and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery. (22)

Lionel: Yes the possibility of salvation is open to all however to receive this salvation all need to formally enter the Church with faith and baptism(Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II, Dominus Iesus 20 etc)

Holy Cannoli 13 hours ago
Again, in Pius IX's encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore of 10 August, 1863 addressed to the Italian bishops, he said...

eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/…/no-text-in-quan…

eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/…/vatican-council…

The Church recognizes that God does not condemn those who are innocently ignorant of the truth about his offer of salvation. Regarding the doctrine in question, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (quoting Vatican II document Lumen Gentium, 16) states:
.
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847)
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Vatican II document Gaudium Et Spesteaches similarly on the possibility of salvation:
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All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men, and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery. (22)
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Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
NIH (National Institute of Mental Health)

Again, in Pius IX's encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore of 10 August, 1863 addressed to the Italian bishops, he said:
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It is known to us and to you that those who are in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion, but who observe carefully the natural law, and the precepts graven by God upon the hearts of all men, and who being disposed to obey God lead an honest and upright life, may, aided by the light of divine grace, attain to eternal life; for God who sees clearly, searches and knows the heart, the disposition, the thoughts and intentions of each, in His supreme mercy and goodness by no means permits that anyone suffer eternal punishment, who has not of his own free will fallen into sin.
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These statements are consistent with the understanding of the Church contained in the documents of Vatican II, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, as well as explaining why the rigorist position of Fr. Feeney (that all must be actual members of the Catholic Church to be saved) has been condemned by the Magisterium. It is ironic that precisely those who know their obligation to remain united to the Magisterium, and thus on whom this doctrine is morally binding, keep themselves from union with the Roman See on this point.
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The rigorist position of Fr. Feeney has been condemned by the Magisterium
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Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
NIH (National Institute of Mental Health)

Yet another scandalous claim from the pseudo 'catholic':
Lionel:
I have cited the magisterial documents which I affirm.They tell us that all need to enter the Church with faith and baptism.Every one needs to be a Catholic in 2016 to avoid Hell and there are no known exceptions.This is the magisterium according to Vatican Council II etc.So what I say is not a private view but it is that of the consistent magisterium of the Church and that of the magisterial texts.
It is the present magisterium which does not affirm these documents in public for political or other reasons.
_________________________________
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We see here that the living Magisterium is irrational.Their conclusion is non traditional and heretical.
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Res ipsa loquitur.
Lionel:
The Holy Spirit cannot teach error. So this is a human error at the Vatican.Invisible baptism of desire cases cannot be visible in 2016.Invisible cases of being saved in invincible ignorance without the baptism of water, cannot be visible exceptions to the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
For you Cannoli, this is the Holy Spirit which has guided the present magisterium.
The Holy Spirit according to you today contradicts the teachings of the Holy Spirit over the centuries. You say this even after being informed?
_____________________________________
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Christ has provided the Magisterium (living Magisterium is irrational) as a great gift to His Church, so that the faithful may give free and grateful assent to the saving truth God has revealed to His Church.
Lionel:
Yes and the pre-Council of Trent magisterium did not assume that the baptism of desire referred to known cases in the present times.
The present magisterium (2016) assumes the baptism of desire refers to a known case and so it is an exception to the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So we have a choice. There now are two doctrines to choose from.One of them is obviously wrong.The magisterium at some time, past or present, has made a mistake.
____________________________________

The Magisterium enables the faithful to live God’s truth in the abundantly fruitful manner He intended. He who hears and obeys the Church hears and obeys her founder, Jesus Christ. And, as Jesus promised, “If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free” (Jn. 8:31-32).
Lionel:
The truth is all non Catholics and non Christians are on the way to Hell unless they formally convert into the Catholic Church; unless they die with faith and baptism.There are no known exceptions in 2016. Are you willing to proclaim the truth?
Or will you feel safe with the lie ?
-Lionel Andrades

Dr Bobus last Saturday

@Lionel Andrades What do you mean by formally enter the Church?

Lionel:

I mean to enter the Catholic Church with 'faith and baptism'(AG 7, LG 14).

To be incorporated into the Church as a member.To be a visible member of the Church.(Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441, Catechism of Pope Pius X etc.)

Yet another scandalous claim from the pseudo 'catholic':
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We see here that the living Magisterium is irrational.Their conclusion is non traditional and heretical.
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Res ipsa loquitur.
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Christ has provided the Magisterium (quoted above as the living Magisterium is irrational) as a great gift to His Church, so that the faithful may give free and grateful assent to the saving truth God has revealed to His Church. The Magisterium enables the faithful to live God’s truth in the abundantly fruitful manner He intended. He who hears and obeys the Church hears and obeys her founder, Jesus Christ. And, as Jesus promised, “If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free” (Jn. 8:31-32).
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Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
NIH (National Institute of Mental Health)

Would a faithful Catholic ever dare to write the following?
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Item #1) the interpretation of the living magisterium is irrational.
and
Item #2) the living Magisterium is irrational.Their conclusion is non traditional and heretical.
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Obviously, no faithful Catholic would ever even consider writing such anti-Catholic merde. Why not? Because a faithful Catholic would know that it is a serious sin to not only doubt the teaching authority of the Church (the Magisterium) but the sin would be compounded by attempting to induce others to also commit the same sin as is being done here on Gloria.tv.
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Therefore, these writings either come from a once Catholic but now a pseudo catholic who, like the Trojan Horse, is posing as a faithful Catholic in order to gain credibility among Catholics at this site.
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Or, the writings come from a non-Catholic individual posing (again like the Trojan Horse of Greek mythology) in order to mislead Catholics into thinking that his own views are those of a Catholic who is “better informed” than ordinary faithful Catholics.
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Or, these writings (often full of blues and reds and yellows and bolds and italics and other childish gimmicks) are made by an obsessive-compulsive mentally unbalance individual who is in serious need of professional psychiatric assistance.
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Why would any individual dare to do such a thing?

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
NIH (National Institute of Mental Health)

Here is where your 'living magisterium' thinks the 'past magisterium' is a dead magisterium.
Here is where there is confusion and controversy in the teaching of the living magisterium.The issue is the interpretation.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him...-Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II
The living magisterium(2016) interprets the passage in red as referring to explicit cases. So the passages in red contradict the orthodox passage in blue.They would have to be explicit to be exceptions. They would have to be objectively known to be relevant to the orthodox passage.So it is inferred by the living magisterium that the passages in red refer to explicit cases.
For me the passage in red refers to hypothetical cases, known only to God, they are invisible for us humans in 2016. So the passage in red does not contradict the passage in blue.

So the interpretation of the living magisterium is irrational.The conclusion is a rupture with the passages quoted above the blue line.
This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved...
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.-Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.

Once again the living magisterium (2016) interprets the passage in red as referring to explicit cases. So the passages in red contradict the orthodox passage in blue.
For me the passage in red refers to hypothetical cases, known only to God, they are invisible in the present times.So the text in red does not contradict the passage in blue.
The passages in red also do not contradict the text of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla saluscited above.Nor can they contradict the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846,1257) cited above.

They do not contradit the Nicene Creed. Since there cannot be three or more known baptisms. The baptism of desire and blood and being saved in invincible ignorance are not known baptisms.
They do not also contradict the Athanasius Creed which says outside the Church there is no salvation. Since invisible cases cannot be exceptions to all needing to formally enter the Church as members for salvation in 2016.
Finally the passages in red do not contradict the Catechism of Pope Pius X which says 'it is necessary to be a living member' of the Catholic Church'.Jews and other non Catholics and Christians are not living members of the Church, they are outside the Church.

"The task of authoritatively interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on [Scripture or Tradition], has been entrusted exclusively to the living Magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."-Fr.William Most
The Holy Spirit cannot teach error. We see above that the living Magisterium is irrational.Their conclusion is non traditional and heretical.They can choose to interpret Vatican Council II rationally if they want to but they do not do so.
-Lionel Andrades
OPEN LINE Friday-- Colin Donovan - Catholic Theology

As seen below, who else other than an ego-maniacal, self-centered loon would write the following where an attempt is made to again discredit the Magisterium of the Church. It is the Magisterium of the Church which faithful Catholics know to be the teaching authority of the Catholic Church especially as exercised by bishops or the pope.
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Item #1) the interpretation of the living magisterium is irrational.
and
Item #2) the living Magisterium is irrational.Their conclusion is non traditional and heretical.
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There can be no doubt that any individual who would write such things is an evil, hell-bound anti-Catholic who is, evidently, seeking to destroy as many souls along the way as possible.
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NIH (National Institute of Mental Health)
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
The fact that such an individual is clearly mentally unbalanced may mitigate culpability but that's not for us to determine but rather by means of a face-to-face examination by a mental health professional.

"The task of authoritatively interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on [Scripture or Tradition], has been entrusted exclusively to the living Magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."-Fr.William Most writes Cannoli
Here is the magisterial texts which I support.I affirm them.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. -Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.

OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION

“Outside the Church there is no salvation” (extra ecclesiam nulla salus) is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church. Here is how the Popes defined it:

“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.) catholicism.org/category/outside-the-chu…
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude...-Catechism of the Catholic Church, The Necessity of Baptism, 1257.
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. -Catechism of the Catholic Church, Outside the Church No Salvation 846.
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins.-Nicene Creed.
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly... This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.-Athanasius Creed
24 Q. To be saved, is it enough to be any sort of member of the Catholic Church?
A. No, to be saved it is not enough to be any sort of member of the Catholic Church; it is necessary to be a living member.

27 Q. Can one be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church?
A. No, no one can be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic Roman Church, just as no one could be saved from the flood outside the Ark of Noah, which was a figure of the Church.

11 Q. Who are they who are outside the true Church?
A. Outside the true Church are: Infidels, Jews, heretics, apostates, schismatics, and the excommunicated.-Catechism of St.Pius X.

These are the magisterial texts which I affirm.The present living magisterium does not affirm it.Instead they assume there are exceptions.
______________________________________
Here is where there is confusion and controversy in the teaching of the living magisterium.The issue is the interpretation.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him...-Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II
The living magisterium(2016) interprets the passage in red as referring to explicit cases. So the passages in red contradicts the orthodox passage in blue.
For me the passage in red refers to hypothetical cases, known only to God, they are invisible for us humans in 2016. So the passage in red does not contradict the passage in blue.

So the interpretation of the living magisterium is irrational.The conclusion is a rupture with the passages quoted above the blue line.
This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved...
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.-Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.

Once again the living magisterium(2016) interprets the passage in red as referring to explicit cases. So the passages in red contradicts the orthodox passage in blue.
For me the passage in red refers to hypothetical cases, known only to God, they are invisible for us the present times.So the text in red does not contradict the passage in blue.
The passages in red also do not contradict the text of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla saluscited above.Nor can they contradict the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846,1257) cited above.

They do not contradit the Nicene Creed. Since there cannot be three or more known baptisms. The baptism of desire and blood and being saved in invincible ignorance are not known baptisms.
They do not also contradict the Athanasius Creed which says outside the Church there is no salvation. Since invisible cases cannot be exceptions to all needing to formally enter the Church as members for salvation in 2016.
Finally the passages in red do not contradict the Catechism of Pope Pius X which says 'it is necessary to be a living member' of the Catholic Church.Jews and other non Catholics and Christians are not living members of the Church, they are outside the Church.

"The task of authoritatively interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on [Scripture or Tradition], has been entrusted exclusively to the living Magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."-Fr.William Most
The Holy Spirit cannot teach error. We see above that the living Magisterium is irrational.Their conclusion is non traditional and heretical.They can choose to interpret Vatican Council II rationally if they want to.
-Lionel Andrades

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder
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Definition
Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) is a common, chronic and long-lasting disorder in which a person has uncontrollable, reoccurring thoughts (obsessions) and behaviors (compulsions) that he or she feels the urge to repeat over and over.
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Signs and Symptoms
People with OCD may have symptoms of obsessions, compulsions, or both. These symptoms can interfere with all aspects of life, such as work, school, and personal relationships.
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Compulsions are repetitive behaviors that a person with OCD feels the urge to do in response to an obsessive thought.
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1) Can't control his or her thoughts or behaviors, even when those thoughts or behaviors are recognized as excessive
2) Spends at least 1 hour a day on these thoughts or behaviors
3) Doesn’t get pleasure when performing the behaviors or rituals, but may feel brief relief from the anxiety the thoughts cause
4) Experiences significant problems in their daily life due to these thoughts or behaviors
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Although most adults with OCD recognize that what they are doing doesn’t make sense, some adults and most children may not realize that their behavior is out of the ordinary. Parents or teachers typically recognize OCD symptoms in children.
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If you think you have OCD, talk to your doctor about your symptoms. If left untreated, OCD can interfere in all aspects of life.

NIH (National Institute of Mental Health)

rhemes1582 11 hours ago
@Lionel L. Andrades
Besides you having to play tennis with HC up here , I would like to ask you.
Lionel:
I am affirming the Catholic Faith. I am affirming the doctrines of the Church, the citations from Vatican Council II and the dogma EENS and I am pointing out the irrationality of the new theology which is used in general in the Catholic Church and which can be avoided.
With reference to your previous comment I mentioned that I affirm the baptism of desire in principle and do nopt believe that they are known cases in 2016 to be relevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
_____________________________________

What is your purpose for repeatedly stating the error as you see it, that a great many in the church follow according to you?
I have read you criticizing or calling these Catholics to be in error
Lionel:
Yes I repeatedly call attention to Catholics who use an irrational premise and conclusion to interpret the baptism of desire etc.
They are constantly interpretating LG 16 (invincible ignorance) as being explicit and so an exception to the dogma EENS.So I correct this.
They are unaware that Vatican Council II like the dogma EENS can be interpreted with the theology of Feneeyism or Cushingism.So I have to keep writing about it.
They violate the Principle of Non Contradiction and are not aware of it.
_____________________________________

The FSSP the Feenyites (as you call them) The Church Hierarchy (Magisterium) etc. pretty sure you even threw in the SSPX and some sedevacantist for good measure.
Lionel:
I do not call the FSSP Feeneyites. I also refer to the communities of Fr. Leonard Feeney, whom I admire and support in many ways, as the St. Benedict Centers.I make the distinction between the present magisterium and that of the past.They are not the same in the theology, doctrines and the faith.
The FSSPX,the present Vatican Curia,the St.Benedict Centers and the SSPX,like the liberals are all interpreting Vatican Council II with Cushingism instead of Feeneyism.They interpret the Council assuming invisible cases are objectively visible in 2016.This is contrary to the Principle of Non Contradiction and they all can correct themself.
_______________________________________

What is the point in all this?
What are you trying to tell everyone?
Lionel:
Proclam the faith and avoid the irrationality and the innovation.
_________________________________________
Is there anyone sound or faithful in the Church according to your measuring stick?
Lionel:
Yes there are lay and religious Catholics who are aware of the error and have proclaimed it. I assume they proclaim the Catholic Faith without the common confusion,privately.In public if they are priests they could be suspended by the present magisterium supported by the political Left.
-Lionel Andrades

What I believe in is magisterial.

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II.

You do not want to proclaim this and affirm it.
You do not want to say all Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Orthodox Christians, Protestants and others need to enter the Catholic Church with 'faith and baptism' for salvation.They need to be incorporated into the Church as members to avoid the fires of Hell.
I proclaim this without denying Vatican Council II.
I affirm all magisterial documents including Vatican Council II which says :

This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. -Lumen gentium 14, Vatican Council II

It is you who reject magisterial documents and do not proclaim the message of Lumen Gentium 14.
I affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).
It is Colin Donovan stl., who will not affirm the dogma EENS which is magisterial.
It is the present Vatican Curia and the two popes who are rebelling against Ad Gentes 7, Lumen Gentium 14 and the dogma EENS.
You want me to accept the present rebellion of the Vatican Curia and then you will call it magisterial?
The Vatican Curia is in rebellion with the consistent magisterium of the Church; with the popes. They are also in rebellion with magisterial texts including those of Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1995).
The Catechism of the Catholic Church (845,846,1257) say all need the baptism of water for salvation in the Catholic Church, all need to enter the Church with faith and baptism, the Church is like the Ark of Noah that saves in the flood.This is what I proclaim.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church (1995) does not mention exceptions for me. The baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance I accept as theoretical possibilities which would only be known to God if they exist.So they are not exceptions to the dogma EENS for me.
So I affirm the magisterial documents and would ask the Vatican Curia to the same. I would ask EWTN, Catholic Answers and you to also clearly do the same.
I am in harmony with the consistent magisterium of the Church including the Catechism of Pope Pius X. The Vatican Curia and EWTN and Catholic Answers are opposing the Catechism of the Pope Pius X. For them the baptism of desire refers to visible exceptions in the present times(2016) to people saved outside the Church; without faith and baptism.With an irrational premise they have created a non traditional and heretical conclusion whiich is a rupture with the magisterium of Pope Pius X or the 16th century missionaries, to whom Pope Benedict XVI referred to a few months back. He said that EENS was no more like in those times.In other words the present magisterium has approved an innovation, a change, a development.This is the new doctrine the new heresy which you, Catholic Answers and EWTN proclaim to be considered 'magisterial'.
-Lionel Andrades

@Lionel L. Andrades
Besides you having to play tennis with HC up here , I would like to ask you.

What is your purpose for repeatedly stating the error as you see it, that a great many in the church follow according to you?
I have read you criticizing or calling these Catholics to be in error
The FSSP the Feenyites (as you call them) The Church Hierarchy (Magisterium) etc. pretty sure you even threw in the SSPX and some sedevacantist for good measure.

What is the point in all this?
What are you trying to tell everyone?
Is there anyone sound or faithful in the Church according to your measuring stick?

A "theologian" who would claim he needs to be able to ignore the Magisterium in order to find the truth is strangely perverse: the teaching of the Magisterium is the prime, God-given means of finding the truth. Nor could he claim academic freedom lets him contradict the Church. In any field of knowledge, academic freedom belongs only to a properly qualified professor teaching in his own field. But one is not properly qualified if he does not use the correct method of working in his field, e.g., a science professor who would want to go back to medieval methods would be laughed off campus, not protected. Now in Catholic theology , the correct method is to study the sources of revelation, but then give the final word to the Church. He who does not follow that method is not a qualified Catholic theologian. Vatican II taught (Dei Verbum # 10):
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"The task of authoritatively interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on [Scripture or Tradition], has been entrusted exclusively to the living Magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."
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(c) Copyright 1990 by William Most