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Vatican II: Cardinal Zen Believes in Inexistent "Continuity"

Hong Kong Cardinal Joseph Zen, 88, supports a “hermeneutic of continuity” to understand Vatican II (OldYosef.hkdavc.com, July 19) although this theory has failed because - patently - there is no continuity, neither liturgical nor doctrinal, between before and after Vatican II.

Zen wrote his doctorate in philosophy from 1961 to 1964 in Rome. This were years which party coincided with Vatican II. For him, before Vatican II, the Church cultivated "a fascist style” with “pressure” and a speech control although "Mussolini's reign" was over for twenty years.

He recalls everybody being "excited" because John XXIII wanted an “aggiornamento” and desired to “evangelise today’s mankind” - a wish that never materialised. According to Zen, the Vatican II bishops discussed everything carefully while the Holy Spirit was the Council's “protagonist.”

Now, Zen wants to go back to the “documents” in order to distinguish the much invoked “spirit of the council” from its true content.

He insists that Vatican II didn't establish a new Church nor overturned the Council of Trent (1545-1562), although it is evident that it did.

For Zen, all ecumenical councils are “enriching.” He likes the "optimistic" Vatican II emphasis on God's desire to save everyone. However, this optimism which isn't supported by the Gospel, was the main reason why after the Council the godliness of the people and the mission of the Church collapsed.

Picture: Joseph Zen, © Mazur, CC BY-NC-SA, #newsCqlhyuyrpu

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Be Ye Separate
@F M Shyanguya It is revealing and significant, because it informs we Catholics, of how one of the religious peoples written of in Nostra Aetate understood it.
It is more evidence that Vatican 2 is evil works of the leftist false bishops, who Bishop Marcel Lefebvre stated undermined the council.
F M Shyanguya
We disagree on this one.
See my comments on VII and the Councils, noting that Abp Lefebvre died excommunicated from the Church. Perhaps when meeting the LORD, he would have so wished that what the so-called Traditionalist accuse the Church of having changed her the doctrine Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus was actually true.More
We disagree on this one.

See my comments on VII and the Councils, noting that Abp Lefebvre died excommunicated from the Church. Perhaps when meeting the LORD, he would have so wished that what the so-called Traditionalist accuse the Church of having changed her the doctrine Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus was actually true.
Be Ye Separate
@F M Shyanguya Paul VI who signed all the documents, gave his papal crown to the United Nations, saying that the UN is the only chance for world peace. Very odd action by a pope.
The documents also are written in an ambiguous way, I've seen Masonics use ambiguity. In our Church's documents over the centuries, the documents are clear, not confusing like V2.
Previous to V2, a homosexual priest got …More
@F M Shyanguya Paul VI who signed all the documents, gave his papal crown to the United Nations, saying that the UN is the only chance for world peace. Very odd action by a pope.
The documents also are written in an ambiguous way, I've seen Masonics use ambiguity. In our Church's documents over the centuries, the documents are clear, not confusing like V2.
Previous to V2, a homosexual priest got kicked out, after V2, as we know, homosexual priests are out in the open, even preaching that homosexual perversions are a gift from God. On and on, the abuses and heresies are mountainous...
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Almighty God bless you,
- Brother Joseph
F M Shyanguya
And blessings to you and yours as well.
Amidst all these the LORD’s Church continues holy, unprevailed upon, and indefectible. One way being infallible in her teachings in her 21st Ecumenical/General Council as she was in the first, the one of the Apostles, and all the rest intervening.More
And blessings to you and yours as well.

Amidst all these the LORD’s Church continues holy, unprevailed upon, and indefectible. One way being infallible in her teachings in her 21st Ecumenical/General Council as she was in the first, the one of the Apostles, and all the rest intervening.
F M Shyanguya
@Be Ye Separate ADL has nothing to do with the Church. For the teachings of the Church, their understanding and interpretation, go to the Church.
Be Ye Separate
VATICAN 2 TEACHINGS ABOLISHED THE EVANGELISM, AND BAPTISM OF TALMUD JEWS?
This is the ADL Talmud Jews understanding, of Vatican 2 Nostra Aetate Document:
"In 1965, the Second Vatican Council made historic changes to church policies and theology. Among them was Nostra Aetate, Latin for "In Our Time," a document that revolutionized the Catholic Church's approach to Jews and Judaism after nearly 2000…More
VATICAN 2 TEACHINGS ABOLISHED THE EVANGELISM, AND BAPTISM OF TALMUD JEWS?
This is the ADL Talmud Jews understanding, of Vatican 2 Nostra Aetate Document:
"In 1965, the Second Vatican Council made historic changes to church policies and theology. Among them was Nostra Aetate, Latin for "In Our Time," a document that revolutionized the Catholic Church's approach to Jews and Judaism after nearly 2000 years of pain and sorrow.

Section four of Nostra Aetate repudiates the centuries-old "deicide" charge against all Jews, stresses the religious bond shared by Jews and Catholics, reaffirms the eternal covenant between God and the People of Israel, and dismisses church interest in trying to baptize Jews." the ADL

.

Jesus proclaimed, "And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this.For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.". (The Apostle Matthew -26)
Ultraviolet
Protip: the ADL's view of Catholicism doesn't invalidate an official Church proclamation. What bothers the EMJ fan-boy crowd is Nostra Aetate specifically condemns the very sort of racial and religious discrimination they, in other venues, claim doesn't even exist. ;-)