He's Got the Juice! It's Official! Archbishop Viganò Conditionally Consecrated!
"For the information of all, Archbishop Viganò, it is confirmed is now conditionally consecrated and is a Bishop of the Resistance with Bishop Richard Williamson. We welcome His Excellency to our ranks!" …More
"For the information of all, Archbishop Viganò, it is confirmed is now conditionally consecrated and is a Bishop of the Resistance with Bishop Richard Williamson. We welcome His Excellency to our ranks!"
Source: twitter.com/FlatTrads/status/1743056331593191527 ||
Archbishop Viganò was Conditionally Consecrated a Bishop ||
CathInfo.com Traditional Catholic Forum - It's Official! Archbishop Vigano conditionally consecrated! ||
Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano Has Been Conditionally Consecrated – Ecclesia Militans ||
Fr. Chazal (MCSPX) Conference UK, November 2023 ||
Source: twitter.com/FlatTrads/status/1743056331593191527 ||
Archbishop Viganò was Conditionally Consecrated a Bishop ||
CathInfo.com Traditional Catholic Forum - It's Official! Archbishop Vigano conditionally consecrated! ||
Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano Has Been Conditionally Consecrated – Ecclesia Militans ||
Fr. Chazal (MCSPX) Conference UK, November 2023 ||
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@Tony Smith Given his purported close relationship with Bishop Williamson, what makes you write that?
Tony Smith
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I doubt that he is actually going to work for the resistance. I think he has more integrity than that.
SonoftheChurch
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@Tony Smith Let us hope so.
Sean Johnson
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None of these sites contain an affirmation by +Vigano. They simply show 2nd-3rd-hand people stating they believe it is true. Can anyone post an affirmation directly from +Vigano?
@Live Mike. Fully agree with Sean Johnson. If the information is not correct, it will re-enforce perception of others that you are a bunch of strange individuals. ![🤔](/emoji/f09fa494)
@Sean Johnson It's forthcoming. Do you have any reason to suspect the 2nd-3rd-hand people are lying?
The Catacombs
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Agree. All these sites say is that they 'know' the conditional consecration happened but there is no word from either Bishop Williamson or Archbishop Vigano. Just internet rumors at this time.
Crisis Series #39: Are Novus Ordo Priests & Bishops Validly Ordained?
To watch from the beginning or go directly to 19:39 for the Sacrament of Holy Orders.More
Crisis Series #39: Are Novus Ordo Priests & Bishops Validly Ordained?
To watch from the beginning or go directly to 19:39 for the Sacrament of Holy Orders.
To watch from the beginning or go directly to 19:39 for the Sacrament of Holy Orders.
Sean Johnson
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See my comment refuting the position of Fr. McFarland
@Sean Johnson I don't see it.
If you oppose a rite to another for the question of validity, then it is useless.
The important thing in any rite of episcopal consecration is the laying on of hands because the Sacrament of the Order is transmitted by physical contact (same thing for the priesthood).
If all the those who claim that it is absolutely necessary to use the ancient Roman rite to consecrate …More
@Sean Johnson I don't see it.
If you oppose a rite to another for the question of validity, then it is useless.
The important thing in any rite of episcopal consecration is the laying on of hands because the Sacrament of the Order is transmitted by physical contact (same thing for the priesthood).
If all the those who claim that it is absolutely necessary to use the ancient Roman rite to consecrate a bishop were right, then there would be no bishop on the planet since the Apostles did not use this ritual.
If you oppose a rite to another for the question of validity, then it is useless.
The important thing in any rite of episcopal consecration is the laying on of hands because the Sacrament of the Order is transmitted by physical contact (same thing for the priesthood).
If all the those who claim that it is absolutely necessary to use the ancient Roman rite to consecrate a bishop were right, then there would be no bishop on the planet since the Apostles did not use this ritual.
Sean Johnson
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Your response is a non-sequitur. If you are going to address me, please address something I said.
Sean Johnson
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Update: Looks like the SSPX deleted my refutation of Fr. McFarland's claim that only those ignorant of sacramental theology find doubt regarding validity in the new rite of episcopal consecration (i.e., stemming from the ambiguity of the phrase "governing spirit"). I pointed out that his accusation would then have to be applied to +Tissier de Mallerais, who has famously doubted the validity of the …More
Update: Looks like the SSPX deleted my refutation of Fr. McFarland's claim that only those ignorant of sacramental theology find doubt regarding validity in the new rite of episcopal consecration (i.e., stemming from the ambiguity of the phrase "governing spirit"). I pointed out that his accusation would then have to be applied to +Tissier de Mallerais, who has famously doubted the validity of the new form in writing, and also that Fr. Alvaro Calderon (longtime professor at the seminary in La Reja, Argentina also wrote a study which concluded that although the rite is "very probably valid" (i.e., doubtful), a shadow of doubt about its validity remains, and it should be revised. I guess the SSPX is more interested in a deal with Rome (i.e., therefore no longer permitted to question the validity of the new rite), than truth. Parading +Huonder around and permitting him to "consecrate" holy oils last year was the proof of it.
@Sean Johnson
A tiny group of people have doubts, but the New Rite is not doubtful for nearly all Catholic scholars and clerics.
They are judging the New Rite with pseudo criteria that are not applicable to the initial transmission of bishophood.
Matthias, the first bishop, validly received, without a formal ceremony of episcopal consecration, the bishophood/ministry previously given by Jesus to …More
@Sean Johnson
A tiny group of people have doubts, but the New Rite is not doubtful for nearly all Catholic scholars and clerics.
They are judging the New Rite with pseudo criteria that are not applicable to the initial transmission of bishophood.
Matthias, the first bishop, validly received, without a formal ceremony of episcopal consecration, the bishophood/ministry previously given by Jesus to the Apostles (Acts 1:15-26).
They said a new Apostle was needed, they made a short prayer without knowing who will become a bishop/Apostle, ''then they gave lots to them, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was counted with the eleven apostles.''
A tiny group of people have doubts, but the New Rite is not doubtful for nearly all Catholic scholars and clerics.
They are judging the New Rite with pseudo criteria that are not applicable to the initial transmission of bishophood.
Matthias, the first bishop, validly received, without a formal ceremony of episcopal consecration, the bishophood/ministry previously given by Jesus to the Apostles (Acts 1:15-26).
They said a new Apostle was needed, they made a short prayer without knowing who will become a bishop/Apostle, ''then they gave lots to them, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was counted with the eleven apostles.''
Sean Johnson
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@Adrien What Catholic scholars would those be? The same modernists who promulgated (and therefore naturally defend) the conciliar anomalies? If your argument needs to rely upon masses of modernist “scholars” (ie., an argument from dubious authority), I’m not persuaded.
All Saints and Credo . What is meant by a "Conditional Consecration"?
All Saints
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That I do not know. Ikm sure the details will be forthcoming.
Perhaps you're familiar with a "Conditional Baptism".
Someone receives the Sacrament of Baptism just in case something went wrong, was missing, was defective or there is cause/reason to doubt the validity of the first ritual of Baptism. But if the original Baptism was validly performed, then the Conditional Baptism would have no effect. @All Saints So Conditional Baptism like Conditional Consecration …More
Perhaps you're familiar with a "Conditional Baptism".
Someone receives the Sacrament of Baptism just in case something went wrong, was missing, was defective or there is cause/reason to doubt the validity of the first ritual of Baptism. But if the original Baptism was validly performed, then the Conditional Baptism would have no effect. @All Saints So Conditional Baptism like Conditional Consecration is performed JUST IN CASE.
Someone receives the Sacrament of Baptism just in case something went wrong, was missing, was defective or there is cause/reason to doubt the validity of the first ritual of Baptism. But if the original Baptism was validly performed, then the Conditional Baptism would have no effect. @All Saints So Conditional Baptism like Conditional Consecration is performed JUST IN CASE.
God help us! "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do"!
Sean Johnson
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I presume this post refers to the ignorant conciliarists?
SonoftheChurch
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@Sean Johnson It probably refers to the sedevacantists.
All Saints
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Well, that total lack of wisdom and prudence ends my support.
All Saints
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Sean Johnson
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@All Saints: "That which is alleged without proof can be dismissed without proof."