Salzburger
23683
Forget the ideological trash-text - it's the OpinionPoll on the sexual orientation of British AgeGroups, what interests.
Hopefully, many youngsters only label themselves as "bisexual" because of inDoctrination without actually being it.
novaramedia.com

There Is No Sexual Liberation Without Bisexuals | Novara Media

In September, Labour MP Rosie Duffield appeared on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, where she was asked about liking a tweet that accused …
Cecilia Lopez
Whether I would call it "sympathetically" or not, here is what Lewis wrote.
Here’s a fellow, you say, who used to come before us as a moral and religious writer, and now, if you please, he’s written a whole chapter describing his old school as a very furnace of impure loves without one word on the heinousness of the sin. But there are two reasons. One you shall hear before this chapter ends. The …More
Whether I would call it "sympathetically" or not, here is what Lewis wrote.

Here’s a fellow, you say, who used to come before us as a moral and religious writer, and now, if you please, he’s written a whole chapter describing his old school as a very furnace of impure loves without one word on the heinousness of the sin. But there are two reasons. One you shall hear before this chapter ends. The other is that, as I have said, the sin in question is one of the two (gambling is the other) which I have never been tempted to commit. I will not indulge in futile philippics against enemies I never met in battle.

(“This means, then, that all the other vices you have so largely written about…” Well, yes, it does, and more’s the pity; but it’s nothing to our purpose at the moment.)

This point is worth examining on its own. In the last few decades, Christian leaders have made a big issue of speaking out against gay rights and same-sex marriage. During the same period of time, they have taken a much softer line on no-fault divorce, fornication, and other offenses against the sanctity of marriage.

Lewis was an unusually persuasive apologist because he spoke humbly about struggles with sin in a way that others who struggled could relate to. This made him an attractive and trustworthy guide, and made the Gospel as he presented it believable and approachable.

Returning to Lewis’s words, toward the end of the chapter, he takes up the theme of homosexuality again (emphasis added):

The Wyvernians seem to me in retrospect to have been the least spontaneous, in that sense the least boyish, society I have ever known. It would perhaps not be too much to say that in some boys’ lives everything was calculated to the great end of advancement. For this games were played; for this clothes, friends, amusements, and vices were chosen.

And that is why I cannot give pederasty anything like a first place among the evils of the Coll. There is much hypocrisy on this theme. People commonly talk as if every other evil were more tolerable than this. But why? Because those of us who do not share the vice feel for it a certain nausea, as we do, say, for necrophily? I think that of very little relevance to moral judgment. Because it produces permanent perversion? But there is very little evidence that it does. The Bloods would have preferred girls to boys if they could have come by them; when, at a later age, girls were obtainable, they probably took them. Is it then on Christian grounds? But how many of those who fulminate on the matter are in fact Christians? And what Christian, in a society as worldly and cruel as that of Wyvern, would pick out the carnal sins for special reprobation? Cruelty is surely more evil than lust and the World at least as dangerous as the Flesh. The real reason for all the pother is, in my opinion, neither Christian nor ethical. We attack this vice not because it is the worst but because it is, by adult standards, the most disreputable and unmentionable, and happens also to be a crime in English law. The world may lead you only to Hell; but sodomy may lead you to jail and create a scandal, and lose you your job. The World, to do it justice, seldom does that.

If those of us who have known a school like Wyvern dared to speak the truth, we should have to say that pederasty, however great an evil in itself, was, in that time and place, the only foothold or cranny left for certain good things. It was the only counterpoise to the social struggle; the one oasis (though green only with weeds and moist only with fetid water) in the burning desert of competitive ambition. In his unnatural love affairs, and perhaps only there, the Blood went a little out of himself, forgot for a few hours that he was One of the Most Important People There Are. It softens the picture. A perversion was the only chink left through which something spontaneous and uncalculating could creep in. Plato was right after all. Eros, turned upside down, blackened, distorted, and filthy, still bore the traces of his divinity.
Ultraviolet
@Cecilia Lopez That's only some of what Lews wrote. the other parts are you plagiarizing Ron Belgau's blog article.
From your comment:
"This point is worth examining on its own. In the last few decades, Christian leaders have made a big issue of speaking out against gay rights and same-sex marriage. During the same period of time, they have taken a much softer line on no-fault divorce, fornication …More
@Cecilia Lopez That's only some of what Lews wrote. the other parts are you plagiarizing Ron Belgau's blog article.

From your comment:
"This point is worth examining on its own. In the last few decades, Christian leaders have made a big issue of speaking out against gay rights and same-sex marriage. During the same period of time, they have taken a much softer line on no-fault divorce, fornication, and other offenses against the sanctity of marriage.

Lewis was an unusually persuasive apologist because he spoke humbly about struggles with sin in a way that others who struggled could relate to. This made him an attractive and trustworthy guide, and made the Gospel as he presented it believable and approachable.
Returning to Lewis’s words, toward the end of the chapter, he takes up the theme of homosexuality again (emphasis added):"

That thoughtful analysis of "yours" is word for word from the author I linked. You copied him and then you passed off his writing as your own. You have all the morals of a snot-nosed school girl stealing another kid's homework.
Cecilia Lopez
I did not present it as my own, I trusted Belgau's quotes of Lewis (or Lews as you call him) as correct, as I don't keep a PDF of the book. Leaving Belgau's comment's or emphasis in or out is irrelevant, and you are just being you, a contrarian nuisance who flatters himself in such matters, decided you wanted to try a "gotcha moment" and it failed. Providing what Lews (sic) said on the matter should …More
I did not present it as my own, I trusted Belgau's quotes of Lewis (or Lews as you call him) as correct, as I don't keep a PDF of the book. Leaving Belgau's comment's or emphasis in or out is irrelevant, and you are just being you, a contrarian nuisance who flatters himself in such matters, decided you wanted to try a "gotcha moment" and it failed. Providing what Lews (sic) said on the matter should have fell within your domain since you were making the claim that he "wrote sympathetically" about what you call, in a sanitized manner, "bisexuality." I provided relevant quotes, you on the other hand, simply made a bold statement without initially providing any evidence, about an author who is no longer alive to explain himself. I however attempted, maybe clumsily but an attempt anyways, to provide some evidence as found in easy to reproduce format.

Get a grip.
Ultraviolet
"I did not present it as my own,"
You presented the author's writing word-for-word as "your" comment with zero credit. You just didn't expect to get caught and you did.
"as I don't keep a PDF of the book"
...and that's why you left the author's name out? :D That's why you didn't link his article? :P You can't cover theft with lies, Cecilia
"Providing what Lews (sic) said on the matter should have …More
"I did not present it as my own,"
You presented the author's writing word-for-word as "your" comment with zero credit. You just didn't expect to get caught and you did.

"as I don't keep a PDF of the book"
...and that's why you left the author's name out? :D That's why you didn't link his article? :P You can't cover theft with lies, Cecilia

"Providing what Lews (sic) said on the matter should have fell within your domain..."

I did my readers the courtesy of assuming they are familiar with Lewis' writing. By contrast, you decided to show off and stole someone else's work to do it. And you got caught.

You should put your mouth in neutral, chica. You're a thief and a liar and yes, this IS a "gotcha" moment. Trying to go on the offensive isn't going to cover that.

"maybe clumsily but an attempt anyways..."

The only thing you did "clumsiliy" was steal someone else's work.
Ultraviolet
Sadly, the Brits have always had a noticeable streak of bisexuality, fostered by their schools. Even C.S. Lewis wrote sympathetically about it in "Surprised by Joy".
Salzburger
Well, that was mostly the small UpperClass in few "public" schools (which were nothing less than "public"...). Doubt, that this tradition has a lot of imPact nowadays. Fear, that it's in other countries similar.
Ultraviolet
Worth remembering those became the influence-shapers and policy makers of the nation. Little wonder Britain turned out the way it has.
philosopher
Milo calls it "the English Thing."
Salzburger
I am admittingly no AngloSaxon, but i have always admired Your aristocracy (as painted once by GAINSBOROUGH), @Ultraviolet! And am aware, that raping quasi everyone was usual for aristocrats, also very Christian ones in the MiddleAges. Still, rape is rape and can - even when causing a great class/culture/empire/... - not simply be white-washed, as if it had not happened! We must see it historically …More
I am admittingly no AngloSaxon, but i have always admired Your aristocracy (as painted once by GAINSBOROUGH), @Ultraviolet! And am aware, that raping quasi everyone was usual for aristocrats, also very Christian ones in the MiddleAges. Still, rape is rape and can - even when causing a great class/culture/empire/... - not simply be white-washed, as if it had not happened! We must see it historically, i.e. hierarchically: In this lacrimae vallis our salvation is erected on sin and vice versa - yet, sin remains sin.
Ultraviolet
"but i have always admired Your aristocracy (as painted once by GAINSBOROUGH), @Ultraviolet!"
Protip: I'm Murrican. Incidentally, and this is saying entirley too much about my ethnicity, I'm not Anglo-Saxon, either. You assume too much. ;-)More
"but i have always admired Your aristocracy (as painted once by GAINSBOROUGH), @Ultraviolet!"

Protip: I'm Murrican. Incidentally, and this is saying entirley too much about my ethnicity, I'm not Anglo-Saxon, either. You assume too much. ;-)
Salzburger
@Ultraviolet "Murrican" = American ?
Ultraviolet
Yes. I'm surprised you'd ask. Europeans first invented/ popularized the term.
Salzburger
Really - i have never heard that before, @Ultraviolet.
Thus Your "Worth remembering those became the influence-shapers and policy makers of the nation. Little wonder Britain turned out the way it has." was not meant in a positive, but rather negative way?
Yet, although i get it, that the USA/GOP/WASPs are the HardRight these days, it does not change the fact, that the Puritans were the LeftExtremists …More
Really - i have never heard that before, @Ultraviolet.
Thus Your "Worth remembering those became the influence-shapers and policy makers of the nation. Little wonder Britain turned out the way it has." was not meant in a positive, but rather negative way?
Yet, although i get it, that the USA/GOP/WASPs are the HardRight these days, it does not change the fact, that the Puritans were the LeftExtremists of their age, the FreeMasons being their fruit; that their creation suffers under the lack of an aristocracy - because whoever does not serve father-knight-baron-count-duke-king/emperor, does also not serve GOD!
Ultraviolet
Welcome to the internet @Salzburger The word Murrican can be dated to at least 2011 and possibly even earlier
Urban Dictionary: Murrica
"the Puritans were the LeftExtremists of their age, the FreeMasons being their fruit;"
...that moment when you realize Freemason George Washington turned down being "king" of America.More
Welcome to the internet @Salzburger The word Murrican can be dated to at least 2011 and possibly even earlier
Urban Dictionary: Murrica

"the Puritans were the LeftExtremists of their age, the FreeMasons being their fruit;"

...that moment when you realize Freemason George Washington turned down being "king" of America.
Salzburger
Yes, awful, @Ultraviolet (although W. was roughly the least terrible one). But we must leave those creatures aside and must go back to the MiddleAges with their GODgiven HierArchy!
Ultraviolet
The middle ages weren't so great, y'know? I've never understood the support some folks around here have for that era. It was filled with abuses that far surpass anything in modern Western governments.
Salzburger
NonSense - i have been dedicated to history for my whole life and just ask: In which other period was a saint - or just an intelligent person - able to rule? When else was there such a clear - even local! - separation of emperor and pope? The poleis were (fairly mild) TheoCraties and after the MiddleAges we returned to a TheoCracy, where manKind and its pursuit of happiness are absolute. An …More
NonSense - i have been dedicated to history for my whole life and just ask: In which other period was a saint - or just an intelligent person - able to rule? When else was there such a clear - even local! - separation of emperor and pope? The poleis were (fairly mild) TheoCraties and after the MiddleAges we returned to a TheoCracy, where manKind and its pursuit of happiness are absolute. An antiChristian selfDeification!
Ultraviolet
So you suggest we return to that lovely era where the baron's son rapes your daughter and the only person you can complain to is the baron? Yeah, no.
Salzburger
If You had an idea of that era, You would be award, that the situation differed immensely from time to time, from tribe/county/village to the neighouring one.
With Your prole-cult of the simple&sane frontier-Merican, who does not need aristos, culture and all that sh!t of Old Europe, You are certainly a protestant having a look at us Papists? However, as said: Whoever does not obey to those more …More
If You had an idea of that era, You would be award, that the situation differed immensely from time to time, from tribe/county/village to the neighouring one.
With Your prole-cult of the simple&sane frontier-Merican, who does not need aristos, culture and all that sh!t of Old Europe, You are certainly a protestant having a look at us Papists? However, as said: Whoever does not obey to those more gifted by grace is a damned KingMurderer and thus GODmurderer! Convert to West/East-Roman Catholicism, the prots are without GOD, without culture, without anything of worth! They don't come into hell, they are already in hell, because not adoring the great&genial saints/thinkers/poets/... is in se the hell!
"In death - and as a consequence also in the perennial death - all are equal." "The hell is a democracy. Heaven a strict hierarchy." (GOMEZ DAVILA)
Ultraviolet
No, the situation didn't differ immensely. Serfs had no rights except what the nobility saw fit to allow. They had no say in government, were bound to their land, most of what they produced they were forced to give to their overlords, they were disarmed and powerless against any abuse, any outrage those lords felt like inflicting on a whim.
The best you can give for all your knowledge of history …More
No, the situation didn't differ immensely. Serfs had no rights except what the nobility saw fit to allow. They had no say in government, were bound to their land, most of what they produced they were forced to give to their overlords, they were disarmed and powerless against any abuse, any outrage those lords felt like inflicting on a whim.

The best you can give for all your knowledge of history is some mindless clap-trap about " prole-cult of the simple&sane frontier-Merican...You are certainly a protestant having a look at us Papists?"

I'm discussing historical fact and you're ranting in broken English because you've got nothing better. You're noise.

Catholic theology contradicts your claims that Hell is a democracy. On the contrary, Hell is the ultimate totalitarian hierarchy.
Salzburger
Until 1918, e.g., the Church was praying for the emperor in my Austria and even PIUS XI wrote in Quattrogesimo anno, that the imperfect hierArchies n this world symbolize the perfect one in heaven. But that doesn't bother democratic characters like You - i know too well...
Yet, no reason to quarrel, basically You have already gotten rid of us and in HIS endless mercy HE will finally allow You to be …More
Until 1918, e.g., the Church was praying for the emperor in my Austria and even PIUS XI wrote in Quattrogesimo anno, that the imperfect hierArchies n this world symbolize the perfect one in heaven. But that doesn't bother democratic characters like You - i know too well...
Yet, no reason to quarrel, basically You have already gotten rid of us and in HIS endless mercy HE will finally allow You to be solely among those equal to You.
Ultraviolet
History has shown what "your Austria" did to Europe. You gunned down "HIS endless mercy" with a Maschinengewehr 08. If it wasn't dead by then, you people finished the job with Maschinengewehr 42 and a few hundred cans of Zyklon-B.
Salzburger
Just remain in Your ignorant&inerudite 'merican-sect with pseudo-"Bible" plus endless sermons and leave us with our "strange" aristocrats, saints, hierarchies, traditions, classical music, poetry, philosophy and other "superstition" (above all our "insane" mystics!!!) alone!