THE RUPTURE OF THE NEW MASS
TRADITIONS OF THE LITURGY ~ Father Chad Ripperger In this excellent, highly informative talk given on the origins of the Sacrifice of the Mass, Father Ripperger makes clear that the New Mass was a …More
TRADITIONS OF THE LITURGY ~ Father Chad Ripperger
In this excellent, highly informative talk given on the origins of the Sacrifice of the Mass, Father Ripperger makes clear that the New Mass was a complete rupture with our Catholic past, and was a contrivance of a Committee following Vatican II.
Father Ripperger explains how every single Rite in the Catholic Church, including all the Eastern Rites can be traced back to one of the Apostles.....except for the "New Mass", which -- while a valid Mass -- contains non-Catholic elements and other aberrations never before seen in the history of the Church.
This talk is excellent, as it explains the nature of this rupture in detail and also provides wonderful insights on the Traditional Latin Mass.
Catholics will be much better-informed about the full nature and significance of the crisis in the Church's "Roman Rite" after listening to Father Ripperger's talk.
VIDEO LINK ON YOUTUBE: TRADITIONS OF THE LITURGY ~ Fr Chad Ripperger
For those who …More
In this excellent, highly informative talk given on the origins of the Sacrifice of the Mass, Father Ripperger makes clear that the New Mass was a complete rupture with our Catholic past, and was a contrivance of a Committee following Vatican II.
Father Ripperger explains how every single Rite in the Catholic Church, including all the Eastern Rites can be traced back to one of the Apostles.....except for the "New Mass", which -- while a valid Mass -- contains non-Catholic elements and other aberrations never before seen in the history of the Church.
This talk is excellent, as it explains the nature of this rupture in detail and also provides wonderful insights on the Traditional Latin Mass.
Catholics will be much better-informed about the full nature and significance of the crisis in the Church's "Roman Rite" after listening to Father Ripperger's talk.
VIDEO LINK ON YOUTUBE: TRADITIONS OF THE LITURGY ~ Fr Chad Ripperger
For those who …More
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mccallansteve
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I don't know if the Novus Ordo is valid or not but I do believe that it is odious to God and extremely harmful to one's spiritual health.
Jeffrey Ade
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@mccallansteve See my post on Fr. Meulis' "Res Sacramenti." Change one word and you invalidate the whole kit and kaboodle!
@mccallansteve Yes, I agree it's extremely harmful to one's spiritual health. Unfortunately, that's my only option for daily Mass most of the time, although I have excellent choices for the Traditional Mass on Sundays and occasionally during the week when the trip is possible.
However, it's clear that the Novus Ordo Mass can have deleterious effects on the soul, due to it's lack of transcendence …More
@mccallansteve Yes, I agree it's extremely harmful to one's spiritual health. Unfortunately, that's my only option for daily Mass most of the time, although I have excellent choices for the Traditional Mass on Sundays and occasionally during the week when the trip is possible.
However, it's clear that the Novus Ordo Mass can have deleterious effects on the soul, due to it's lack of transcendence or any tangible reverence, and its heavily Protestant, humanistic overtones.
So I keep a "moral distance" from it when I have to go to the New Mass during the week, and just stay lost in my own prayers and thoughts until the Consecration and Holy Communion.
And -- you know what? -- Holy Communion absolutely makes up for all that the Mass itself lacks. Receiving Our Lord always heals the soul and draws it close to God as nothing else does. So for that, at least, I am grateful.
However, it's clear that the Novus Ordo Mass can have deleterious effects on the soul, due to it's lack of transcendence or any tangible reverence, and its heavily Protestant, humanistic overtones.
So I keep a "moral distance" from it when I have to go to the New Mass during the week, and just stay lost in my own prayers and thoughts until the Consecration and Holy Communion.
And -- you know what? -- Holy Communion absolutely makes up for all that the Mass itself lacks. Receiving Our Lord always heals the soul and draws it close to God as nothing else does. So for that, at least, I am grateful.
Koza Nutria
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Do you think that Novus Ordo celebrated with reverance is still harmful?
What about Vetus Ordo celebrated without reverence? Just curious.
What about Vetus Ordo celebrated without reverence? Just curious.
@Koza Nutria Certainly a Priest's obvious devotion and supernatural reverence contribute a great deal to the fruit which the faithful derive from the Mass, while the merits of the Mass itself remain infinite by virtue of Who is being offered: Our Lord....much as our personal devotion, or lack thereof, is an important factor in how much fruit we derive from the Sacraments, which are efficacious …More
@Koza Nutria Certainly a Priest's obvious devotion and supernatural reverence contribute a great deal to the fruit which the faithful derive from the Mass, while the merits of the Mass itself remain infinite by virtue of Who is being offered: Our Lord....much as our personal devotion, or lack thereof, is an important factor in how much fruit we derive from the Sacraments, which are efficacious according to our dispositions and preparedness to receive the graces they impart.
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This is one article I found quickly that discusses that. See Proper dispositions:
"A sacrament gives grace of and by itself, by its own power.
"This is because Jesus attached grace to the outward sign, so to speak, so that that outward sign and grace always go together.
"But our own attitude does matter. Our interior dispositions have an effect on the amount of grace we receive. The more perfect is our sorrow in the sacrament of Reconciliation, the more ardent our love in receiving the Holy Eucharist, the more lively our faith in receiving Confirmation—then the greater will be the grace we receive.
"Our dispositions do not cause the grace; they simply remove the obstacles to the freer flow of grace and, in a sense, make more room for grace. We might illustrate this by saying that the more sand we empty out of the pail, the more water the pail will hold."
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I've also read a number of times in various places over the years that the devotion of the Priest -- along with our own devotion -- will also impact the benefit one derives from the Mass for this reason, almost in the way the broadness of a channel determines the volume of water which can travel through it to those receiving it. It's a mystery, for sure.
I will say this, though, frequenting as I must both forms of the Mass (and I only go to the most conservative Novus Ordo parishes with Priests who are truly devout and love the Faith)...when I am able to return again to the Traditional Mass, it's as though a torrent of grace pours out effortlessly upon the soul throughout the Mass, lifting it up to the eternal mysteries -- it's transformative....
And many of my Novus Ordo friends whom I have introduced to the Traditional Mass say the same exact thing -- they are all amazed at how their spiritual lives deepen after attending the TLM for a very short time.
The Priest seems to disappear in the TLM, and his devotion or lack thereof seem to have little impact on the graces which the soul receives according to their preparedness.
When I go to even the most devoutly offered Novus Ordo Mass, I personally have to struggle against its humanistic, sterile influence which often affects us even sub-consciously -- the constant dialoguing back and forth with the Priest in the vernacular, instead of being plunged into silence before the Sacred Mysteries so the soul can speak with God alone; the bizarre wording of the Offertory which drops so much of the beautiful, mystical preparatory prayers and obscures almost completely the nature of the sacrificial offering as propitiation for sin; the precipitous nature of the abbreviated Canon and moving almost immediately through it to the closing of the Mass; the lack of reverence at Holy Communion, etc..
In fact, Father Ripperger addresses a great deal along these lines in the subject video.
So I just "disconnect" at the Novus Ordo and insulate myself in prayer until the Consecration (excepting the Priests' sermons, which are usually excellent at the N.O. churches I go to) and Holy Communion, which I certainly do derive spiritual benefits from, which is why I simply cannot stay away when the TLM is not possible.
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This is one article I found quickly that discusses that. See Proper dispositions:
"A sacrament gives grace of and by itself, by its own power.
"This is because Jesus attached grace to the outward sign, so to speak, so that that outward sign and grace always go together.
"But our own attitude does matter. Our interior dispositions have an effect on the amount of grace we receive. The more perfect is our sorrow in the sacrament of Reconciliation, the more ardent our love in receiving the Holy Eucharist, the more lively our faith in receiving Confirmation—then the greater will be the grace we receive.
"Our dispositions do not cause the grace; they simply remove the obstacles to the freer flow of grace and, in a sense, make more room for grace. We might illustrate this by saying that the more sand we empty out of the pail, the more water the pail will hold."
--------------------
I've also read a number of times in various places over the years that the devotion of the Priest -- along with our own devotion -- will also impact the benefit one derives from the Mass for this reason, almost in the way the broadness of a channel determines the volume of water which can travel through it to those receiving it. It's a mystery, for sure.
I will say this, though, frequenting as I must both forms of the Mass (and I only go to the most conservative Novus Ordo parishes with Priests who are truly devout and love the Faith)...when I am able to return again to the Traditional Mass, it's as though a torrent of grace pours out effortlessly upon the soul throughout the Mass, lifting it up to the eternal mysteries -- it's transformative....
And many of my Novus Ordo friends whom I have introduced to the Traditional Mass say the same exact thing -- they are all amazed at how their spiritual lives deepen after attending the TLM for a very short time.
The Priest seems to disappear in the TLM, and his devotion or lack thereof seem to have little impact on the graces which the soul receives according to their preparedness.
When I go to even the most devoutly offered Novus Ordo Mass, I personally have to struggle against its humanistic, sterile influence which often affects us even sub-consciously -- the constant dialoguing back and forth with the Priest in the vernacular, instead of being plunged into silence before the Sacred Mysteries so the soul can speak with God alone; the bizarre wording of the Offertory which drops so much of the beautiful, mystical preparatory prayers and obscures almost completely the nature of the sacrificial offering as propitiation for sin; the precipitous nature of the abbreviated Canon and moving almost immediately through it to the closing of the Mass; the lack of reverence at Holy Communion, etc..
In fact, Father Ripperger addresses a great deal along these lines in the subject video.
So I just "disconnect" at the Novus Ordo and insulate myself in prayer until the Consecration (excepting the Priests' sermons, which are usually excellent at the N.O. churches I go to) and Holy Communion, which I certainly do derive spiritual benefits from, which is why I simply cannot stay away when the TLM is not possible.
@Koza Nutria
"Do you think that Novus Ordo celebrated with reverance is still harmful?"
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The question of the rite (Novus Ordo Missae) has nothing to do with reverence/joy/cry/sadness and other expressions of human emotions applied to the celebration of the concrete service on the basis of the above rite.
For example, unjust or harmful law will remain such regardless of the degree of reverence …More
@Koza Nutria
"Do you think that Novus Ordo celebrated with reverance is still harmful?"
---
The question of the rite (Novus Ordo Missae) has nothing to do with reverence/joy/cry/sadness and other expressions of human emotions applied to the celebration of the concrete service on the basis of the above rite.
For example, unjust or harmful law will remain such regardless of the degree of reverence you will engage applying it.
The rite is an objective pattern/norm of the liturgy. Its main purpose is to secure and safeguard Sacred Mysteries, in particular to contain, reflect and express Catholic truths on the Holy Sacrifice and the Blessed Sacrament of the Altar. To provide and secure the valid intention of the priest - in other words - to force him to do quod facit Ecclesia i.e. what the Church does.
If the rite fails to do the above, fails to meet its raison d'être then it is flawed and harmful. Period.
Moreover, Novus Ordo was designed to destroy the traditional Roman Rite in accordance with Protestant theology of the Supper. The authors openly admitted it in the original Institutio Generalis.
That is why preparation prayers at the foot of the altar were killed, Confiteor was mutilated, shifted to the Protestant confessing of sinfulness towards... sisters and brothers and degraded to optional. That is why Epistle readings and new part - the prayer of the faithful became the core of laity active participation. That is why the Offertory was demolished and replaced with Jewish meal prayers (with the sad relic of Orate Fratres attached to it in quite a strange way).
That is why an altar was replaced with the Protestant table - with the president of the assembly facing the "God's people". That is why the Roman Canon was mutilated and degraded to optional with an addition of much shorter, ecumenical in meaning "eucharistic prayers". That is why the Communion of the Priest being the last act of the Sacrifice was destroyed and mixed with the Communion of the People (not belonging to the Eucharistic Sacrifice). That is why in spring of 1969 together with the new rite the indult for new usus of hand-communion was issued.
@Ave Crux
"the bizarre wording of the Offertory"
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Not bizarre - just Talmudic. Chabad Lubavitsch uses similar table/meal prayers.
"Do you think that Novus Ordo celebrated with reverance is still harmful?"
---
The question of the rite (Novus Ordo Missae) has nothing to do with reverence/joy/cry/sadness and other expressions of human emotions applied to the celebration of the concrete service on the basis of the above rite.
For example, unjust or harmful law will remain such regardless of the degree of reverence you will engage applying it.
The rite is an objective pattern/norm of the liturgy. Its main purpose is to secure and safeguard Sacred Mysteries, in particular to contain, reflect and express Catholic truths on the Holy Sacrifice and the Blessed Sacrament of the Altar. To provide and secure the valid intention of the priest - in other words - to force him to do quod facit Ecclesia i.e. what the Church does.
If the rite fails to do the above, fails to meet its raison d'être then it is flawed and harmful. Period.
Moreover, Novus Ordo was designed to destroy the traditional Roman Rite in accordance with Protestant theology of the Supper. The authors openly admitted it in the original Institutio Generalis.
That is why preparation prayers at the foot of the altar were killed, Confiteor was mutilated, shifted to the Protestant confessing of sinfulness towards... sisters and brothers and degraded to optional. That is why Epistle readings and new part - the prayer of the faithful became the core of laity active participation. That is why the Offertory was demolished and replaced with Jewish meal prayers (with the sad relic of Orate Fratres attached to it in quite a strange way).
That is why an altar was replaced with the Protestant table - with the president of the assembly facing the "God's people". That is why the Roman Canon was mutilated and degraded to optional with an addition of much shorter, ecumenical in meaning "eucharistic prayers". That is why the Communion of the Priest being the last act of the Sacrifice was destroyed and mixed with the Communion of the People (not belonging to the Eucharistic Sacrifice). That is why in spring of 1969 together with the new rite the indult for new usus of hand-communion was issued.
@Ave Crux
"the bizarre wording of the Offertory"
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Not bizarre - just Talmudic. Chabad Lubavitsch uses similar table/meal prayers.
@V.R.S. Everything you said is absolutely true; and Father Ripperger covers it masterfully in this video also. We need to understand what the New Mass is. It was a usurpation of the rightful, sacred place of privilege held only by that hallowed Mass of the Ages; that Treasure which we had received from the apostle Saint Peter (as Father explains was the origin of the Roman Rite).
Father Ripperger …More
@V.R.S. Everything you said is absolutely true; and Father Ripperger covers it masterfully in this video also. We need to understand what the New Mass is. It was a usurpation of the rightful, sacred place of privilege held only by that hallowed Mass of the Ages; that Treasure which we had received from the apostle Saint Peter (as Father explains was the origin of the Roman Rite).
Father Ripperger equates this usurpation to an act of violent destruction of what we had received from the Church that had been hallowed and perfected by Saints, which was endowed with a beauty as worthy of God as 2 millennia of Catholicism had been able to produce; and which we were duty-bound to safeguard and protect for future generations..
That is why I try to completely cancel the New Mass out in my mind, as though it doesn't exist while I'm there; so as not to let all those details register for fear of the impact such a Protestantized "liturgy" has on the soul.....I just adore Our Lord at the moment of Consecration, and then receive Him with all my heart and soul. That's about all that registers in my mind.
RE: the Offertory....actually, Father Ripperger explains that saying it was a "table blessing" was a pretense; that there are no such "table prayers" simply "adapted" for the Catholic Offertory. It's text straight from the Talmud. That, along with all the Protestant advisors....what was going on at Vatican II...?
Father Ripperger equates this usurpation to an act of violent destruction of what we had received from the Church that had been hallowed and perfected by Saints, which was endowed with a beauty as worthy of God as 2 millennia of Catholicism had been able to produce; and which we were duty-bound to safeguard and protect for future generations..
That is why I try to completely cancel the New Mass out in my mind, as though it doesn't exist while I'm there; so as not to let all those details register for fear of the impact such a Protestantized "liturgy" has on the soul.....I just adore Our Lord at the moment of Consecration, and then receive Him with all my heart and soul. That's about all that registers in my mind.
RE: the Offertory....actually, Father Ripperger explains that saying it was a "table blessing" was a pretense; that there are no such "table prayers" simply "adapted" for the Catholic Offertory. It's text straight from the Talmud. That, along with all the Protestant advisors....what was going on at Vatican II...?
@Chat Chartreux Thank you for your kind blessing...! And may God richly bless you as well!
Connie Traywick
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Wow Ava, please educate yourself!
Connie Traywick
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Sorry Ava, this was not meant for you.
Koza Nutria
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@Ave Crux
I do go to Vetus and Novus Ordo but for me and my spirituality is very important how the mass is celebrated. Unfortunately in my town Vetus is celebrated very fast ,sometimes priest even do not say some words because is "running" ,maybe the answer is rosary then.
I do go to Vetus and Novus Ordo but for me and my spirituality is very important how the mass is celebrated. Unfortunately in my town Vetus is celebrated very fast ,sometimes priest even do not say some words because is "running" ,maybe the answer is rosary then.
@Koza Nutria Yes, I have seen that can happen with some Priests when offering the Vetus Ordo, and it does make it difficult to "pray" the Mass. It may be difficult to mention to the Priest? Perhaps in Confession.....? There was a comment about that on another post, and they quoted Padre Pio, I believe, rebuking priests for saying the Mass precipitously. He said something along the lines of "In …More
@Koza Nutria Yes, I have seen that can happen with some Priests when offering the Vetus Ordo, and it does make it difficult to "pray" the Mass. It may be difficult to mention to the Priest? Perhaps in Confession.....? There was a comment about that on another post, and they quoted Padre Pio, I believe, rebuking priests for saying the Mass precipitously. He said something along the lines of "In Heaven there is no time...." I'm sorry for your difficulty and will offer a prayer it improves.