J G Tasan
Getting worse, day by day... Sigh... 😡 😤
Alex A
What on earth is Francis babbling about? Has he any logic at all left in his pea-sized brain? Open the door to 'civil union' for sodomites? Does he not comprehend that the Vatican is a sovereign state as well as the central See of Christendom? Thus, the import and implications of his 'pastoral concern' for sodomites would eventually affect temporal and canonical jurisprudence within the very …More
What on earth is Francis babbling about? Has he any logic at all left in his pea-sized brain? Open the door to 'civil union' for sodomites? Does he not comprehend that the Vatican is a sovereign state as well as the central See of Christendom? Thus, the import and implications of his 'pastoral concern' for sodomites would eventually affect temporal and canonical jurisprudence within the very walls of the Vatican. Once the door is open to 'civil union,' then the sodomites will push for/and succeed in legal adoption of gender-like children. Predictably, the sexual abuse of those unfortunate children will exponentially rise with the encroachment of societies blasé sophistication, including within the temporal boundaries of the Vatican state.
iwirawan
I wonder how far Bergoglio has to go until the faithful Cardinals and Bishops have enough courage to call for a council to declare that Bergoglio is outside the Church?
Ultraviolet
Where in Canon Law are they authorized to call for such a council, please?
Cuthbert Mayne
That would be the heresy of conciliarism as condemned at the Fifth Lateran Council, 1512–17.
Ultraviolet
Perfect rebuttal @Cuthbert Mayne It's particularly relevant since @Canon 212 is, in fact, preaching just such a heresy here on GTV. Oct. 21, 2020: Francis Needs To Be Investigated And Removed
iwirawan
Where in the Scripture the homosexual is allowed? Not in the time of Noah, not in the time of Sodom.
The authority comes from the Lord's own words in Matt 18:15
Ultraviolet
Where in the Scripture is reverence for a non-Christian religion allowed, either? And yet we have a Saint and a Pope who kissed the Quran. Yet, somehow... was able to intercede with God for at least two miracles.

Now then... Let's look at this supposed authority in Matt 18:15.

"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone."

First, a "brother" is …More
Where in the Scripture is reverence for a non-Christian religion allowed, either? And yet we have a Saint and a Pope who kissed the Quran. Yet, somehow... was able to intercede with God for at least two miracles.

Now then... Let's look at this supposed authority in Matt 18:15.

"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone."

First, a "brother" is not a "Father" or The Holy Father. There should be some parity in the Catholic family, yes?

Cardinals and Bishops are subordinates of the Pope. They are not equals to him.

Second, telling your brother his fault does not grant you the right to oust your "brother" from his lawful seat of authority. One may, if one is bold, tell even a king his fault. Trying to remove him from his throne, however... that's treason.

Third, Christ instructed such a fault-telling should be "between you and him alone." The very nature of a council of "faithful Cardinals and Bishops" (your words) who would "call for a council to declare Bergoglio..." etc. flatly contradicts Christ's instructions of private correction.

The way you originally phrased it, the "faithful Cardinals and Bishops" were just going to get together "call for a council" and then publicly "declare that Bergoglio is outside the Church" All your words, quoted directly.

As @Cuthbert Mayne very correctly noted, the notion itself is a documented heresy.

Fourth, (as I've asked before...)

Who has the temporal authority to represent the Church when attempting to correct the supposed errors of the Church's highest temporal authority?

One reason such a coundil isn't done today (aside from that) is those attending would also be in schism under Canon Law 751. One can not submit to the Supreme Pontiff, acknowledge he is the Supreme Pontiff, and then call for the Supreme Pontiff's removal.

The Catholic Church is not a democracy as well it should not be. If you want to see how THAT works out in practice, here's a clique of radical left-wing Catholic trouble-makers pulling some "Matthew 18:15" on their (then) newly-assigned pastor who wasn't into their hippie "social justice" version of The Church.

We, the laity, do not get to depose our pastors simply because we don't like them. The bishops don't get to depose their cardinals and cardinals don't get to depose the Pope.

Don't like that? Feel you have a right to do so? Cool... you aren't the first one. Martin Luther did too. ...and what a mess that's turned into for his followers.

Their churches are always splintering with lawsuits over which group "is" the Church and which group "isn't"... meaning which group keeps the fancy church property and financial assets and which bunch have to start over again in a rented store-front somewhere.

That isn't how the Church works and we're the stronger for it. Once a person accepts that all things happen because

1.) God -causes- them to happen or
2.) God -allows- them to happen,

...then this and every prior (much less future) incompetent Pope is simply part of a greater design beyond our limited human understanding.

...because I'm saying this right now.... Francis successor is going to be worse, a LOT worse. The obvious choice is Cardinal Tagle. He's just as crazy as Francis with none of Francis' Latin autocratic temperment. I suspect some of the Saint Gallen Group learned only too late, Francis might be a fool, but he's nobody else's fool.

Why does God allow Francis? Why does God allow so many horrors? Surely, if God wanted to remove Pope Francis this instant, He would not need humanity's help to do so. Meaning, God does not need your council of "faithful Cardinals and Bishops".

We should be seeing something straight out of Raiders Of The Lost Ark. Might not be the most Catholic movie, but Stephen Spielberg totally nailed the Divinely Dreadful Disapproval part.

God's awesome like that. When He decides to make an example out of someone, He's wonderfully obvious about it. Lot's wife is the classic negative example, and the many people Jesus cured are the positive ones.
iwirawan
This is exactly what the enemy of the Church want the faithful to believe, that the Pope is the teaching authority and no one can oppose. But the reality is, the teaching authority is the deposit of faith (Scripture, Tradition, and Magisterium). The reason they want the faithful to believe this is because so that they can get their man to be the Pope, and all the sheep will follow to the …More
This is exactly what the enemy of the Church want the faithful to believe, that the Pope is the teaching authority and no one can oppose. But the reality is, the teaching authority is the deposit of faith (Scripture, Tradition, and Magisterium). The reason they want the faithful to believe this is because so that they can get their man to be the Pope, and all the sheep will follow to the slaughterhouse in the pit of Hell. The reality is the faithful through the sensus fidelium, know His Voice. We know that we are not hearing The Shepherd's Voice. But we need his Brother Bishops to talk to him, and if he still obstinate, to publicly declare him as gentiles and tax collectors which is outside the Church.
Cuthbert Mayne
St John Henry Newman might be of help here:
newmanreader.org/…olume2/gladstone/section9.html
Cuthbert Mayne
@iwirawan sadly what you propose is also heresy (of conciliarism) and someone else will need to come for the guys who came for the guy to declare him outcast and declare them outcast too. No, there’s no need to worry and accompany a pope (or your mummy or daddy) to the pit of hell. As Our Lord’s teaching is there for us. And there are perfectly sound Bishops and priests to help the faithful. So …More
@iwirawan sadly what you propose is also heresy (of conciliarism) and someone else will need to come for the guys who came for the guy to declare him outcast and declare them outcast too. No, there’s no need to worry and accompany a pope (or your mummy or daddy) to the pit of hell. As Our Lord’s teaching is there for us. And there are perfectly sound Bishops and priests to help the faithful. So Keep Calm and Carry on. Nothing’s changed.

Don’t give money to support crooked priests. Instead give money to GTV.
Ultraviolet
You sure on dat, @HerzMariae Basis for the figure? Five hunnert mill is a lot.
HerzMariae
1/2 a billion Catholics will agree with him by noon.
Cuthbert Mayne
And the other half by sundown
Cuthbert Mayne
(Except some of the few reading GTV or cheering Trump at the final prez debate tomorrow)
De Profundis
Sodomy is a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance. Given that the Roman Pontiff has CANCELLED Midnight Mass and now publicly supports sodomy with the dignity of his Office: WE NEED REPARATION or else we might actually need a 2nd lockdown.