Müller: No Canonical Process Can Declare a Pope a Heretic

Opera 369

Jan 19

Cardinal Muller should do his "cardinalish" due diligence before he throws in .. the towel ( in this case he throws in the 'Chair of Peter'). Read and put into practice UNIVERSI DOMINICI GREGIS! That is the affective directive which outlines perfectly ONE SURE Process to not simply 'declare a heretic, but actually remove an anti-pope! All these sanctimonious and masked Cardinals should just SAVE …More

Cardinal Muller should do his "cardinalish" due diligence before he throws in .. the towel ( in this case he throws in the 'Chair of Peter'). Read and put into practice UNIVERSI DOMINICI GREGIS! That is the affective directive which outlines perfectly ONE SURE Process to not simply 'declare a heretic, but actually remove an anti-pope! All these sanctimonious and masked Cardinals should just SAVE THE CHURCH instead of babbling the same tragic song!

foward

Jan 19

(Wiki:) "Anacletus II (died January 25, 1138), born Pietro Pierleoni, was an antipope who ruled in opposition to Pope Innocent II from 1130 until his death in 1138. After the death of Pope Honorius II, the college of cardinals was divided over his successor. Unusually, the election was entrusted to eight cardinals, who elected Papareschi (Innocent II). A larger body of cardinals then elected …More

(Wiki:) "Anacletus II (died January 25, 1138), born Pietro Pierleoni, was an antipope who ruled in opposition to Pope Innocent II from 1130 until his death in 1138. After the death of Pope Honorius II, the college of cardinals was divided over his successor. Unusually, the election was entrusted to eight cardinals, who elected Papareschi (Innocent II). A larger body of cardinals then elected Pierleoni, which led to a major schism in the Roman Catholic Church. Anacletus had the support of most Romans, including the Frangipani family, and Innocent was forced to flee to France. North of the Alps, Innocent gained the crucial support of the major religious orders, in particular Bernard of Clairvaux's Cistercians, the Abbot of Cluny Peter the Venerable; and Norbert of Xanten, the Archbishop of Magdeburg who established the Premonstratensians and held a high rank in the court of the German Emperor Lothar III. "
A part of the Church simply did not accept Anacletus II, although others did.
Things do not look to be resolved by our declarations.

Matt Stand

Jan 19edited

This was Charles Journet’s opinion on the loss of the pontificate:
Some, such as Bellarmine and Suarez, considered that such a Pope, with
drawing himself from the Church, was ipso facto deposed, papa haereticus est depositus. It seems that heresy was regarded by these theologians as a kind of moral suicide, suppressing the very subject of the Papacy. Thus we come back without difficulty to the …More

This was Charles Journet’s opinion on the loss of the pontificate:

Some, such as Bellarmine and Suarez, considered that such a Pope, with
drawing himself from the Church, was ipso facto deposed, papa haereticus est depositus. It seems that heresy was regarded by these theologians as a kind of moral suicide, suppressing the very subject of the Papacy. Thus we come back without difficulty to the first way in which the pontificate can be lost.

Others, such as Cajetan, and John of St. Thomas, whose analysis seems to
me more penetrating, have considered that even after a manifest sin of heresy the Pope is not yet deposed, but should be deposed by the Church, papa haereticus non est depositus, sed deponendus.

la verdad prevalece

Jan 19

Homosexual predator McCarrick on Bergoglio's election: “We did it!”
Fraudulent Conclave -Invalid Conclave= Bergoglio is a Usurper.
A legacy of scandal: Pope Francis says he has ‘carried out’ plans laid during ‘pre-Conclave meetings’ - LifeSite (lifesitenews.com)
Diodoro: false Pope, as @La verdad prevails says.
Not-pope, Pseudo-pope, never-been-pope, as many people say.
"81. The Cardinal electors …More

Homosexual predator McCarrick on Bergoglio's election: “We did it!”

Fraudulent Conclave -Invalid Conclave= Bergoglio is a Usurper.

A legacy of scandal: Pope Francis says he has ‘carried out’ plans laid during ‘pre-Conclave meetings’ - LifeSite (lifesitenews.com)

Diodoro: false Pope, as @La verdad prevails says.
Not-pope, Pseudo-pope, never-been-pope, as many people say.
"81. The Cardinal electors are also to abstain from any form of pact, agreement, promise or other commitment of any kind, which could force them to give or deny the vote to one or some. If this were actually done, albeit under oath, I decree that this commitment is null and void and that no one is required to observe it; and from now on I impose latae sentencentiae excommunication on transgressors of this prohibition..." (Universi Dominici Gregis, Sa Giovanni Paolo II) .
Elected by excommunicated people, organized for decades to "finally adapt the Papacy to New Times"

la verdad prevalece

Jan 19

The Church has Magisterially decreed that the elevation of a heretic to the Papacy is Invalid and Null. In addition to the automatic excommunications for holding a fraudulent conclave. The problem is not that there are no means to defend ourselves from the heresiarch Bergoglio, the problem is basically that it is not obeyed because Bergoglio has many accomplices who have placed a heretic above the …More

The Church has Magisterially decreed that the elevation of a heretic to the Papacy is Invalid and Null. In addition to the automatic excommunications for holding a fraudulent conclave. The problem is not that there are no means to defend ourselves from the heresiarch Bergoglio, the problem is basically that it is not obeyed because Bergoglio has many accomplices who have placed a heretic above the Magisterium and above God.

Maria delos Angeles

Jan 19

Well I do not think God would leave His people without a solution. I just do not think enough people are honing in on it in the right ways.. yet.

Kenjiro M. Yoshimori

Jan 18

" If a pope blatantly and notoriously contradicts Scripture or Catholic doctrine, the faithful are no longer obliged to obey him and he would, so to speak, lose his office himself."
This is one of the best quotes from Cardinal Muller, and it totally applies to Pope Francis. Not only in Africa, but in many parts of Europe, and even in many parishes here in the USA, I've ready of very,very many …More

" If a pope blatantly and notoriously contradicts Scripture or Catholic doctrine, the faithful are no longer obliged to obey him and he would, so to speak, lose his office himself."

This is one of the best quotes from Cardinal Muller, and it totally applies to Pope Francis. Not only in Africa, but in many parts of Europe, and even in many parishes here in the USA, I've ready of very,very many faithful Catholics (more than the Vatican can even think), who no longer acknowledge Pope Francis, and ignore everything that comes from hom, as of the last month. I know of faithfulful Catholics in Europe who are re-populating empty Churches and monasteries with new Orders of monks and friars dedicated to Catholic tradition and the TLM, regardless of the VAtican of what they say, and they have the support of the people. I know of faithful CAtholics here in the USA who are buying closed Protestant churches, and re-dedicating them for the traditional Roman Rite, regardless of what the local Francis bishop complains.
This is the was to break from Francis and his heresy and of his associates and appointees.
AND THE VATICAN IS INCREASINGLY AFRAID OF THEM (US).!!!!!

Clement Jaeho Chung

Jan 19

@Kenjiro M. Yoshimori Hi!! Kenjiro!!! how are you?? always hope you and all your family, lovely people are always happy, healthy...you are totally right...Eminence Cardinal Müller said about great thing...Pope against to our Orthodox teachings...and destroying to our Orthodox teachings...it's not a Pope anymore...so Bergoglio is a not Pope!!! I see the Eminence Cardinal Müller...feels so sad...be …More

@Kenjiro M. Yoshimori Hi!! Kenjiro!!! how are you?? always hope you and all your family, lovely people are always happy, healthy...you are totally right...Eminence Cardinal Müller said about great thing...Pope against to our Orthodox teachings...and destroying to our Orthodox teachings...it's not a Pope anymore...so Bergoglio is a not Pope!!! I see the Eminence Cardinal Müller...feels so sad...be cause he did not have work with Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI...as Cardinal....if very short time...if he worked with Benedict XVI as Cardinal...it's was very nice....but he could not have to this situation...Bergoglio made him to Cardinal....and fired to him...so much sad....and deeply respect to his effort....these days....much pray to the Lord..please send us...we will get to Orthodox Pope, real Pope....I told you...really hope Eminence Cardinal Péter Erdő(Archbishop of Budapest, Hungary) get to Papacy!!!! I heard he against to all Wrong Ideologies...and he agaisnt to Fiducia Supplicans too....if he will elect to new Pope...ah...I can't imagine...or...or....I really hope Eminence Cardinal William Eijk get to Papacy too.....I think it's great too....I know..Eminence Cardinal Eijk against to LGBT Ideologies, indiscrimition Abortion...and he was a surgeon...so he much well knows about Gender Ideologies dagner....I heard..Eminence Cardinal George Pell loves Eminence Cardinal Erdő get to Papacy situation...I am sure he loves to Eminence Cardinal Eijk get to Papacy too....not them...just really hope we will get to Orthodox Pope fast time.....Eminence Cardinal Müller Get to papacy it will be nice too...I am sure...he is totally better than Bergoglio....I always tell you......if Lord will send Orthodox Pope, real Pope..fast time...I must going to Underground Church....like Arian crisis...Orthodox Catholic People escape to Desert....I think now almost going.....much thinking about Eminence Cardinal Ottaviani's prayer too....I think Bergoglio want staying much Longer to Papacy...make me huge angry....many talking sorry....Our Lord Sacred Heart of Jesus blessed always you and all your family, lovely people....Holy Mary, All Angels and Saints..pray for us..Amen...take care.....have a great day again...always really happy..hear about your great opinion!! and thanks for your kind message^^

Hound of Heaven

Jan 18

With sincere respect, your eminence, it is highly likely that the very one being protected by this apparent 'safety net' likely scoffed and held in contempt all of these tenets which now safeguard him to wreak the havoc so contrary to the doctrine of the Faith.

la verdad prevalece

3Jan 18

In the Case of Antipope Anacletus II who usurped Peter's chair for 8 years because he had the support of the college of cardinals, it was Saint Bernard of Carvajal after the death of the antipope who put an end to the Schism caused by antipope Anacletus. Here we see a simple priest confronting an antipope, as Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò can do with the authority he has. Let us pray that Saint …More

In the Case of Antipope Anacletus II who usurped Peter's chair for 8 years because he had the support of the college of cardinals, it was Saint Bernard of Carvajal after the death of the antipope who put an end to the Schism caused by antipope Anacletus. Here we see a simple priest confronting an antipope, as Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò can do with the authority he has. Let us pray that Saint Bernard of Carvajal helps us fight the false Pope Bergoglio.

la verdad prevalece

Jan 18

Another historical fact that refutes Muller's claim. "No canonical process can declare a Pope a heretic" we have it in the case of Pope Honorius I, who after his death was declared a heretic.
Honorius' successor St. Leo II approved. "We anathematize the inventors of the new error, that is, Theodore, Sergius, ... and also Honorius, who did not attempt to sanctify this Apostolic Church with the …More

Another historical fact that refutes Muller's claim. "No canonical process can declare a Pope a heretic" we have it in the case of Pope Honorius I, who after his death was declared a heretic.

Honorius' successor St. Leo II approved. "We anathematize the inventors of the new error, that is, Theodore, Sergius, ... and also Honorius, who did not attempt to sanctify this Apostolic Church with the teaching of Apostolic tradition, but by profane treachery permitted its purity to be polluted."

la verdad prevalece

Jan 18

In this case of Pope Honorius it is argued that this case does not prove that heretics can be popes, since the Church has never stated that he remained pope after his fall into heresy.

la verdad prevalece

2Jan 18

St. Alphonsus Liguori (1787), Doctor of the Church: "If ever a pope, as a private person, should fall into heresy, he would at once fall from the Pontificate."

Tony M

2Jan 18

I cannot see how a canonical process is required for the faithful Cardinals to declare that a manifest heretic on the Chair of Peter is a heretic.......because the fact of his being a heretic.....is manifest to all true Catholics ....not just to the Cardinals hiding in their ivory towers.
So by his manifest heresies, it is manifest to all that Bergoglio cannot be the Pope.
It only needs to be …More

I cannot see how a canonical process is required for the faithful Cardinals to declare that a manifest heretic on the Chair of Peter is a heretic.......because the fact of his being a heretic.....is manifest to all true Catholics ....not just to the Cardinals hiding in their ivory towers.
So by his manifest heresies, it is manifest to all that Bergoglio cannot be the Pope.
It only needs to be announced by the Cardinals what is manifest to all True & Faithful Catholics.
I cannot see that we need a canonical process to declare that 1+1=2.
Faithful Cardinals of the Church.....get out of your armchairs....do your due diligence in identifying all of Bergoglio's manifest heresies both before and after he took the Chair of Peter.
Then announce what is obvious to all.
The word manifest means obvious, clear, definite, blatant, unquestionable, undeniable.
Please good & holy Cardinals of the Church souls are being scandalised & lost because of Bergoglio's heretical teachings. He is trying to destroy the Church. Surely you can see that!!!!!!!!!!!
Please don't just sit there...........DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!

Tony M

Jan 18

Cardinal Muller states: There can be no canonical procedure by which a reigning pope could be officially declared a formal heretic and legally deposed. The supreme authority cannot be judged.
But Cardinal Muller he is not the supreme authority....because it is manifest that he is not the Pope....by his manifest heresies.
You are not working hard enough to publicly identify all of those manifest …More

Cardinal Muller states: There can be no canonical procedure by which a reigning pope could be officially declared a formal heretic and legally deposed. The supreme authority cannot be judged.
But Cardinal Muller he is not the supreme authority....because it is manifest that he is not the Pope....by his manifest heresies.
You are not working hard enough to publicly identify all of those manifest heresies.
Have you never heard of an imperfect council????
To many concerned Catholics, it really looks like you are sitting on your hands.... saying you can do nothing.....without even trying to explore all possible avenues....because it is just too difficult for you!!!

Louis IX

Jan 18

If only God can depose a sitting pope (or a pope can depose himself I guess). How does God tell us the deposition has occurred?

Ivan Tomas

Jan 19

When he drops dead!
But this is a logical and most simplistic and clear evidence that a heretic and certainly an apostate in Faith can, should and must be declared excommunicated, and departed by the Church!
Otherwise, if they (the bishops and cardinals are cowards) are not doing they job properly concerning that problem, then - THEY, but also we together with them, DESERVE such disaster.More

When he drops dead!

But this is a logical and most simplistic and clear evidence that a heretic and certainly an apostate in Faith can, should and must be declared excommunicated, and departed by the Church!

Otherwise, if they (the bishops and cardinals are cowards) are not doing they job properly concerning that problem, then - THEY, but also we together with them, DESERVE such disaster.

la verdad prevalece

Jan 18edited

If anyone who sits in Peter's chair were considered pope then the antipope Anacletus who lasted usurping the papacy for 8 years would be Saint Peter's successor. We want Muller to answer us if a heretic can become Pope? As I keep repeating, the heresiarch Jorge Mario Bergoglio is not a pope who has fallen into heresy, but being already a heretic in Argentina he was invalidly elected pope. Bergoglio …More

If anyone who sits in Peter's chair were considered pope then the antipope Anacletus who lasted usurping the papacy for 8 years would be Saint Peter's successor. We want Muller to answer us if a heretic can become Pope? As I keep repeating, the heresiarch Jorge Mario Bergoglio is not a pope who has fallen into heresy, but being already a heretic in Argentina he was invalidly elected pope. Bergoglio usurps the papacy. These are two very different things and the Magisterium of the Church makes the elevation of a heretic as pope invalid and void. The antipope Anacleto lasted 8 years usurping the papacy and Bergoglio has been there for 10 years.

la verdad prevalece

Jan 18

Bergoglio was disqualified from became a pope due to his heretical, apostate and schismatic past in Argentina.
Leonardo Boff: "Pope Francis is much more liberal than what is supposed."
Bergoglio's Homosexual Subversion Already Began in Buenos AiresMore

Bergoglio was disqualified from became a pope due to his heretical, apostate and schismatic past in Argentina.

Leonardo Boff: "Pope Francis is much more liberal than what is supposed."
Bergoglio's Homosexual Subversion Already Began in Buenos Aires

Boanerges Boanerges

4Jan 18

Reading this one cannot escape the feeling that it is at odds with God's justice and supreme law of salvation of souls. Much theory, "technical situations" and philosophy and yet our Faith is so simple. Why would God consider His pope and leader of His Church on Earth someone who is His archenemy and steals so many souls away from Him?

Uni Versum

Jan 18

Wanna know how the term "Conclave" came into existence?
Let's hear the story: the Cardinals of Roman Catholic Church, after the passing away of a Pope, united in the very beautiful city of Rome, and prepared for the election of the new successor of S. Peter.
Now, the city of Rome was a nice place to stay: great history, great culture, great people, great culinary delicacies!
It was just such nice …More

Wanna know how the term "Conclave" came into existence?

Let's hear the story: the Cardinals of Roman Catholic Church, after the passing away of a Pope, united in the very beautiful city of Rome, and prepared for the election of the new successor of S. Peter.

Now, the city of Rome was a nice place to stay: great history, great culture, great people, great culinary delicacies!

It was just such nice of a place, that the dear Cardinals almost forgot what they had come for to that city: electing the new Pope. So they started to procrastinate. First the days passed, then the weeks, followed by months, and even years...

If they had the choice, they would have stayed there for the rest of their lives!

...and this is where the people of Rome come into play: they understood the problem, and came to the conclusion that they needed to LOCK THEM UP in a single room - until they had finally elected the NEW POPE whom everybody was waiting for... (hence the term CON CLAVE -- LOCK UP with a KEY)

--

Fast forward to 2024:

What treatment should we reserve to current 'Cardinals'?!

The current situation is MUCH WORSE than back then, so WHAT TREATMENT WOULD THEY DESERVE TODAY ?!

Boanerges Boanerges

Jan 18

Don't worry eternal justice is more terrifying than we can imagine

Sean Johnson

7Jan 18

Journet said the opposite: He considered Cajetan’s doctrine the more penetrating: It is not the pope who is judged, but the fact of his heresy which is declared, from which that which Muller conceded follows(such a one would lose office ipso facto).
, Muller is misconstruing the position of Cajetan and John of St. Thomas, by suggesting it “judges” the pope. The reality is that the bishops would …More

Journet said the opposite: He considered Cajetan’s doctrine the more penetrating: It is not the pope who is judged, but the fact of his heresy which is declared, from which that which Muller conceded follows(such a one would lose office ipso facto).

, Muller is misconstruing the position of Cajetan and John of St. Thomas, by suggesting it “judges” the pope. The reality is that the bishops would only declare the fact of his heresy, from whence they would make a subsequent declaration tgat GOD had deposed the heretic pope.

Matt Stand

Jan 19edited

This is totally false. Once again you falsify a quote…
This what Journet wrote (Loss of the Pontificate):
Some, such as Bellarmine and Suarez, considered that such a Pope, with
drawing himself from the Church, was ipso facto deposed, papa haereticus est depositus. It seems that heresy was regarded by these theologians as a kind of moral suicide, suppressing the very subject of the Papacy. Thus …More

This is totally false. Once again you falsify a quote…

This what Journet wrote (Loss of the Pontificate):

Some, such as Bellarmine and Suarez, considered that such a Pope, with
drawing himself from the Church, was ipso facto deposed, papa haereticus est depositus. It seems that heresy was regarded by these theologians as a kind of moral suicide, suppressing the very subject of the Papacy. Thus we come back without difficulty to the first way in which the pontificate can be lost.

Others, such as Cajetan, and John of St. Thomas, whose analysis seems to
me more penetrating, have considered that even after a manifest sin of heresy the Pope is not yet deposed, but should be deposed by the Church, papa haereticus non est depositus, sed deponendus.

Sean Johnson

Jan 19

You don’t read very carefully: You yourself have quoted the very words of Journet which I attributed to him (ie., the position of Cajetan is the more penetrating). That which follows a n the Journet quote is him misconstruing Cajetan/JST (as though a council could depose a pope: the heresy of conciliarism).
Oh vey!More

You don’t read very carefully: You yourself have quoted the very words of Journet which I attributed to him (ie., the position of Cajetan is the more penetrating). That which follows a n the Journet quote is him misconstruing Cajetan/JST (as though a council could depose a pope: the heresy of conciliarism).

Oh vey!

Matt Stand

Jan 20

No, I quoted Journet verbatim, you did not.
Your claim “one would lose office ipso facto” is false, that’s the Bellarmine/Suarez opinion - which is not the one Journet finds “more penetrating”. Hence, what you wrote is false.
A fact anyone can check (page 483).

More

No, I quoted Journet verbatim, you did not.

Your claim “one would lose office ipso facto” is false, that’s the Bellarmine/Suarez opinion - which is not the one Journet finds “more penetrating”. Hence, what you wrote is false.

A fact anyone can check (page 483).

All Saints

6Jan 18

We do not need a chronicle process to show that Francis is a heretic. He self-professes that all by himself.

Louis IX

Jan 19

I recommend Fr. Hesse’s talks (available on youtube) wherein he defines material and formal heresy. They are excellent.