Francis to Institute of Roman Rite: "Continue According to your Proper Charism"

Sandy Barrett shares this

3 343Jun 26

If the ICKSP is permitted by the Pope to say the TLM unrestricted then how come they are prohibited from celebrating the TLM in the Shrine of Christ the King in Chicago, the National Headquarters of the American Province of the ICKSP?

English Catholic

2Jun 26

I've always said that the final game plan is this:
1) Stop all diocesan indult Masses - globally
2) Trick the Ecclesia Dei communities into thinking they can continue and then stop them as well
3) Herd everyone into the SSPX and then 'excommunicate' it and all who adhere to it

Boanerges Boanerges

Jun 26

The end game is to excommunicate all the orthodox faithful and to excommunicate Eucharistic Jesus

John A Cassani

Jun 26

Didn’t TC pretty much give bishops a free pass to suppress personal parishes and get rid of these communities, should they wish? Obviously, the situation there is completely unjust, but it did free up a priest so that they could start another oratory elsewhere, where they are wanted. They are going to be in greater demand from the many bishops who either disagree with what is going on, or at least …More

Didn’t TC pretty much give bishops a free pass to suppress personal parishes and get rid of these communities, should they wish? Obviously, the situation there is completely unjust, but it did free up a priest so that they could start another oratory elsewhere, where they are wanted. They are going to be in greater demand from the many bishops who either disagree with what is going on, or at least those who don’t want to deal with angry Trads.

Sean Johnson

Jun 26

With the benefit of a few more days for reflection, here’s what I think I see happening:
The tie that binds all these recent events together (ie., Rumor of the imminent complete suppression of the TLM; the censure of Vigano; the SSPX preparation of the faithful for episcopal consecrations; and somewhat more remotely, the suppression of the PCED) is that they are all preparatory steps for the formal …More

With the benefit of a few more days for reflection, here’s what I think I see happening:

The tie that binds all these recent events together (ie., Rumor of the imminent complete suppression of the TLM; the censure of Vigano; the SSPX preparation of the faithful for episcopal consecrations; and somewhat more remotely, the suppression of the PCED) is that they are all preparatory steps for the formal integration of the SSPX into the conciliar church, via the personal prelature.

In reverse order:

1) The suppression of the PCED leaves all the biritual communities like the FSSP, ICK, et al adrift without a Roman overseer, but it also clears the path for the establishment of a new governing authority (ie., the Prelature).

2. The consecration of bishops is a logical inevitability: A prelature needs prelates. Of course, if this is what is happening, it means the SSPX and Menzingen are still working in partnership, and that being the case, with bishops covertly approved by modernist Rome, the capture of the Society and its further conciliarization are likewise inevitable.

3. Since part of the plan is to leave “approved” “trads” no venue outside the SSPX/prelature, Vigano needs to be nuked. The legal sanction will assure that all the semi-trads currently attending authorized Mass venues can’t turn to him, his organization, or clergy as an alternate liferaft.

4) So the complete suppression of approved Mass venues outside the Prelature herds all these semi-trads back into the branded SSPX reeducation camps, where, along with the neo-SSPX, they’re all slow boiled right back into conservative conciliarism (where fear of losing canonical approval, along with the hordes of diluting legalistic conservatives, finally put an end to Lefebvre’s “schism.).

This is now more or less what I think I see happening, and it’s just the final phase of a 30 year ralliement coming to an end.

Credo .

Jun 26

Whatever, Sean. You make for, a good propagandist.

Sean Johnson

Jun 25

He’ll herd all trads to the SSPX’s personal prelature (which is why the SSPX will consecrate bishops), which will be the only approved venue, where the combination of self-censorship (so as not to lose approval) and dilution of doctrine because of an influx of hordes of legality-first conservatives will put the final nails in the traditionalist resistance to the counterrevolution. And at such time …More

He’ll herd all trads to the SSPX’s personal prelature (which is why the SSPX will consecrate bishops), which will be the only approved venue, where the combination of self-censorship (so as not to lose approval) and dilution of doctrine because of an influx of hordes of legality-first conservatives will put the final nails in the traditionalist resistance to the counterrevolution. And at such time as the prelature should materialize, you’ll know Rome picked the SSPX bishops all along, and the two have continued the deception of the faithful and clergy by gradual steps (as Fellay and Hoyos agreed upon back in 2001).

Seabass

Jun 25

Never thought of that, but it definitely seems plausible!

V.R.S.

4Jun 26edited

You treat SSPX bishops, priests and faithful going to their chapels like idiots they are not.
I can tell you about Poland, my native country. SSPX was not popular there because of the mythos of Wojtyla. What turned the tide?
Francis with his "Year of Mercy" document about Confessions at SSPX? No.
Two things that happened within six months. 1. The Pachamama scandal, 2. Closing of the churches by …More

You treat SSPX bishops, priests and faithful going to their chapels like idiots they are not.
I can tell you about Poland, my native country. SSPX was not popular there because of the mythos of Wojtyla. What turned the tide?
Francis with his "Year of Mercy" document about Confessions at SSPX? No.
Two things that happened within six months. 1. The Pachamama scandal, 2. Closing of the churches by the pseudo-right govt in "communion" of pseudo-pandemics with Francis and his terrified bishops (corrupted with money moreover).
SSPX just did not cease to administer the Sacraments, did not impose masks, limits or chemical fluids in place of the Holy Water. And it worked (though one of SSPX priests was arrested, accused of helping to get the jab certificate for soldiers and people forced to get the vaxx with no jab administered).
Many faithful started to go to the chapels, some priests came from NO structures (you will say: we don't know whether they have been conditionally ordained in the RR - yes, we don't, this is the SSPX policy as long as such moves happen). They were labelled as suspended by their bishops, of course like Msgr. Lefebvre by Paul VI before.
Do you think they trust Bergoglio and his bishops?

BTW, Msgr. Williamson also saw the above-mentioned potential opening in Poland and e.g. ordained his priest, totally unknown in Poland, Fr. Stobnicki a bishop starting also to organise his "Resistance" there. As SSPX and "Resistance" started to compete in Poland at the same time, "Resistance" could not use the same argumentation as in the West - it was not intelligible to the Polish faithful. So they presented themselves as the "patriotic" tradition against the alleged "Germanized" one with Fr. Stehlin and priests after the German seminary (BTW Fr. Stobnicki also used to go there but as he told in one interview he saw the "germanization" - e.g. superiors were not fond of the Godzinki Marian piety).

Credo .

Jun 26

Well done, V.R.S. and to all the Polish Faithful!

V.R.S.

Jun 26edited

@Credo .
Thank you very much.
The argument: "He’ll herd all trads to the SSPX’s personal prelature" lacks any real grounds whatsoever.
IMHO, the problem here is not SSPX, SSPX-R or no-SSPX-at-all but :
how priests and people are reacting to documents like Traditionis Custodes i.e. whether they treat them seriously or not (in other words: are they attached to Ecclesia Dei/Summorum Pontificum "indults …More

@Credo .
Thank you very much.
The argument: "He’ll herd all trads to the SSPX’s personal prelature" lacks any real grounds whatsoever.

IMHO, the problem here is not SSPX, SSPX-R or no-SSPX-at-all but :
how priests and people are reacting to documents like Traditionis Custodes i.e. whether they treat them seriously or not (in other words: are they attached to Ecclesia Dei/Summorum Pontificum "indults" or not - basing their ministry upon antiquity and durability of the Roman Rite plus additional documents like Quo primum, Council of Trent decrees and so on).
SSPX did not apply TC as they are not part of the "indult" system but some "independent" priests working with Bp Williamson or not - they also did not apply it.

Faith In The Ruins

Jun 25edited

If Francis doesn't just pull the rug from under the old Ecclesia Dei communities, I expect he'll put a sundown date on them for maybe July 16, 2025.

Klaus Elmar Müller

Jun 25

After the media announcement of the murder of the old rite on July 16th, the Pope's invitation and word are very positive. The Pope thereby undertakes to pave the way for the Institute of Christ the King and High Priest to carry out the old rite of mass in places where bishops might block a place of worship. Can we fear a cunning trick in the Pope's words "unity", "harmony", "balance"? In contrast …More

After the media announcement of the murder of the old rite on July 16th, the Pope's invitation and word are very positive. The Pope thereby undertakes to pave the way for the Institute of Christ the King and High Priest to carry out the old rite of mass in places where bishops might block a place of worship. Can we fear a cunning trick in the Pope's words "unity", "harmony", "balance"? In contrast to such speculation, the Institute follows the biblical recommendation of holy innocence.

Christopher Shahrazade

Jun 25

"Can we fear a cunning trick in the Pope's words "unity", "harmony", "balance"?
Of course we can. I hope the ICRSP does not let it's guard down. Pope Francis and his VAtican are a nest of vipers.
I also read that it is Pope Francis' VAtican, and not actually himself, who push for the end of the TLM, and who push for homosexuality......that Francis basically is a puppet who does what he is told.
I …More

"Can we fear a cunning trick in the Pope's words "unity", "harmony", "balance"?
Of course we can. I hope the ICRSP does not let it's guard down. Pope Francis and his VAtican are a nest of vipers.
I also read that it is Pope Francis' VAtican, and not actually himself, who push for the end of the TLM, and who push for homosexuality......that Francis basically is a puppet who does what he is told.
I would be inclined not to believe that story.....but if that's the truth, Francis is less guilty of all this than we think.
But that's alittle far fetched.

......dear Lord forgive my ugliness.

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