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Medjugorje Hoax Testimony Solinus – gloria.tv

Medjugorje = Montanism + Fr. Stefano Gobbi 's Fake messages.
Their followers like Medjugorie.
Medjugorie Pilgrim was just for Bosnian tourist business.


" Saint John Vianney did not believe in La Salette and spoke ill of one of the seers, for about ten years. While he did eventually see he was wrong in this, it was not an obstacle to his canonizati…More
Medjugorje Hoax Testimony Solinus – gloria.tv

Medjugorje = Montanism + Fr. Stefano Gobbi 's Fake messages.
Their followers like Medjugorie.
Medjugorie Pilgrim was just for Bosnian tourist business.


" Saint John Vianney did not believe in La Salette and spoke ill of one of the seers, for about ten years. While he did eventually see he was wrong in this, it was not an obstacle to his canonization. "
Tom Cieszinski
There may be no miracles per se but what are the criteria for miracles? It seems to be being healed of a health problem. But there are other problems, alcoholism and so on. In any age, it's difficult to really classify miracles unless it is something extremely obvious.
Kevin
I've become so tired of encouraging people to come away from these alleged apparitions that I rarely bother these days. They're like spiritual crack for many - waiting for the next 'fix' i.e. 'message'. Years ago, a friend of mine was heavily involved in Medjugorje and had something to do with the 'seer' Ivan's visit to England. Ivan had been booked to be at a prayer meeting at some woman's …More
I've become so tired of encouraging people to come away from these alleged apparitions that I rarely bother these days. They're like spiritual crack for many - waiting for the next 'fix' i.e. 'message'. Years ago, a friend of mine was heavily involved in Medjugorje and had something to do with the 'seer' Ivan's visit to England. Ivan had been booked to be at a prayer meeting at some woman's house, where he was going to have an 'apparition'. That was suspect enough in itself - apparitions on demand like that. But even worse, the evening that the prayer meeting was due, Ivan got offered tickets for a football match and decided to go and postpone the prayer meeting and the 'apparition' until the following evening. Unbelievable. If the 'apparitions' were genuine, that would be putting a football match above the Mother of God. Even my pro-Medjugorje friend was very uncomfortable about that episode but it still didn't cause him to come away from it completely. We stopped discussing it as it always led to disagreements and I saw less and less of him, then I heard he got ill and died. It's such a shame - so many good people are led astray by this falsehood. And I don't believe in it and never will, despite what the Commission says about the first seven apparitions - and the Commission is by no means infallible. It also denounced Ivan as unreliable. This two-part article shows beyond doubt the profiteering of the seers: marcocorvaglia.com/i-veggenti-e-il-denaro-parte-1 (the link to part 2 is at the bottom of part 1). Also, read E Michael Jones' books on Medjugorje, and Michael Davies' book. And these weblinks are helpful in discerning the truth:-
marcocorvaglia.com
medjugorjedocuments.blogspot.com (not been updated since 2014 but a mine of background early information and official documents)
Michael Davies book: archive.org/details/MedjugorjeAfter21YearsMichaelDavies
E Michael Jones video: patrickcoffin.media/the-medjugorje-deception/
Chat Chartreux
At least Davies and Jones could agree on this.
andrew24157
Most of the apparitions are false. I have a problem with personages of Heaven showing up everyday and talking incessantly about the same things without any spiritual progress. Powerless heaven? I don't think so. This lengthy video by Fr. Ripperger might be helpful with discernment... youtube.com/watch?v=Q73aoHXsLq0
G W
We as a family went to Medjugorje to experience for ourselves. We met 2 of the child visionaries now adults by arrangement. And seperately saw the main seerer having a loud argument and swearing early in the street outside the church. Additionally the male drove so badly I was pulled out of his path and he mounted the pavement and an elder person fell and he drove off. We were told by the female …More
We as a family went to Medjugorje to experience for ourselves. We met 2 of the child visionaries now adults by arrangement. And seperately saw the main seerer having a loud argument and swearing early in the street outside the church. Additionally the male drove so badly I was pulled out of his path and he mounted the pavement and an elder person fell and he drove off. We were told by the female seer that the outdoor crucifix miraculously wept tears at intervals. My child is curious and as pilgrims prayed and touched handkerchiefs on the large outdoor crucifix, she dug around and found an outdoor water hose buried in the earth that led inside the crucifix to the weeping Christ, where there was tiny water crevice from the hose. She announced this and you should have seen the shocked looks on everyone’s faces as they left their handkerchiefs. I was told by someone in charge they were fixing that and it should have been better constructed. Additionally children, elderly who needed the bathroom or water as it was very hot and left mass were locked out of the church from returning- many travel from overseas for only the day. I have hesitated speaking about this. However, it is nice to see people come and say the rosary night and day. The way the outdoor nightly stations of the cross took on a sound and atmosphere from an scary esoteric movie and everyones children there became frightened. The miracle there is an economic one for the many store holders. But I don’t want to discourage you so see for yourself.
Starlight777
David Murgia was asked What events have marked the debate around the events in Medjugorje?
His answer: It can certainly be said that the events that have marked and mark the debate on this phenomenon are many. Apparitions aside, around Medjugorje the discourse of the so-called "secrets" is very much felt, or revelations that the visionaries would have received from the Gospa (as Our Lady is …More
David Murgia was asked What events have marked the debate around the events in Medjugorje?
His answer: It can certainly be said that the events that have marked and mark the debate on this phenomenon are many. Apparitions aside, around Medjugorje the discourse of the so-called "secrets" is very much felt, or revelations that the visionaries would have received from the Gospa (as Our Lady is called in Bosnian) concerning future (and apocalyptic?) Events in the world. There is a very heated debate on these secrets. And the Pontifical Commission itself tried to know its contents several times during the interrogations of the visionaries. But in the end the common address of the Members was to ignore them in order not to fall back into the error - as happened in the judgment of other apparitions, for example those of La Salette - of making the Secrets the proof of the authenticity of the apparitions. As if to say: if the secrets occur, the apparitions must necessarily be true.

Another reason for debate is the economic conditions of the visionaries. For many, in fact, some visionaries would live in luxury thanks to their fame and to the commercial and tourist businesses they would own. In reality, as the Pontifical Commission itself has made clear, the visionaries are not rich at all nor poor, they are middle class.
Starlight777
And then another reason for debate is the fact that all the visionaries got married and have children. This - according to some - would be sufficient to brand the mystical manifestations they claim to be recipients as bogus. Those who embrace this theory basically ask themselves: “Can anyone who saw Our Lady have sex (even if it is aimed at procreation)?

Finally, another element of discussion …More
And then another reason for debate is the fact that all the visionaries got married and have children. This - according to some - would be sufficient to brand the mystical manifestations they claim to be recipients as bogus. Those who embrace this theory basically ask themselves: “Can anyone who saw Our Lady have sex (even if it is aimed at procreation)?

Finally, another element of discussion is the fact that by now the apparitions in Medjugorje have lasted for over 40 years. So a Madonna who would reveal herself so many times for someone would not be credible. In reality - as the Pontifical Commission pointed out - those of Medjugorje are by no means the longest apparitions in history. In fact, to date, the longest Marian apparitions (they were officially recognized a few years ago) are those of Laus, in France.
Ultraviolet
A more simple standard for determining if these apparitions are bogus.is comparing their messages to Church teachings.Revealing - Comparison between the teachings of the Church with the "revelations" of Medjugorje
Ave Crux
@Ultraviolet Exactly! And that's the standard the Church also uses when examining a candidate for canonization. In all things, the Church's Magisterium is the litmus test for authenticity and trustworthiness.
Ultraviolet
Awww @Ave Crux If only that were so. Sadly, today's canonization standards are different. That's how the Vatican is going to rail-road the Blessed Carlo Acutis as the Patron Saint of Pudgy Pokemon Nerds.
Ave Crux
@Ultraviolet Well yes, that is the whole problem, isn't it? So much of the Church's discipline and teaching has been reduced to mere principle and theory, mere "ideals" (even the Ten Commandments!), instead of praxis and absolutes....alas! Forgive me, for a moment I was living in the Church's glorious past....
Starlight777
David Murgia: The canonical and ecclesial situation in Medjugorje is very complex. In the sense that the same pontifical Commission that for 4 years dealt with the phenomenon of Medjugorje has produced a final document - the so-called Final Report (of which the minutes I publish are the backbone) - in which it is substantially stated that the first seven apparitions are credible, that is, those …More
David Murgia: The canonical and ecclesial situation in Medjugorje is very complex. In the sense that the same pontifical Commission that for 4 years dealt with the phenomenon of Medjugorje has produced a final document - the so-called Final Report (of which the minutes I publish are the backbone) - in which it is substantially stated that the first seven apparitions are credible, that is, those that took place from 24 June 1981 to the end of July of the same year. The subsequent apparitions, therefore, including those that still occur today - for the Pontifical Commission - still need to be studied and deepened.
CatholicDoors
And the devil keeps dancing because the Novus Ordo Church plays along with the fake apparitions. This is no different than Francis' worship of demons at the Vatican.
Starlight777
We shall see. No one is forcing you to believe so why the vitriol?
Ultraviolet
@Starlight777 Perhaps CatholicDoors dislikes seeing Catholics misled. Speculation on my part, but I can sympathize.
Starlight777
No, I get the feeling from reading the articles and posts here that the people dislike Divine Mercy and the conversion of sinners. It's like the parable Jesus told of the people who were hired all throughout the day for the same wage. The people that were hired early in the morning complained about the people hired in the late afternoon that received the same wage. It's surprising because Our …More
No, I get the feeling from reading the articles and posts here that the people dislike Divine Mercy and the conversion of sinners. It's like the parable Jesus told of the people who were hired all throughout the day for the same wage. The people that were hired early in the morning complained about the people hired in the late afternoon that received the same wage. It's surprising because Our Lady of Fatima stressed that we pray for the conversion of sinners and here we have Our Lady of Medjugorje asking for the very same thing, and yet she is demonized by mainly 'Traditional Catholics.' I do not understand.
Starlight777
The way I understand that question and answer is for me to not hate someone of another faith. Our Lady of Medjugorje stated early on that it is a great error to believe in reincarnation. Therefore, she is not saying that all beliefs are okay in the eyes of God. She said that all people come before God and He will judge them accordingly. It is not our place to judge them and she said not to …More
The way I understand that question and answer is for me to not hate someone of another faith. Our Lady of Medjugorje stated early on that it is a great error to believe in reincarnation. Therefore, she is not saying that all beliefs are okay in the eyes of God. She said that all people come before God and He will judge them accordingly. It is not our place to judge them and she said not to belittle people of other beliefs because that is a hindrance to their conversion to the one, true, holy and apostolic Faith. I would like to also express that Artie Boyle of Massachusetts was healed of terminal cancer after visiting Medjugorje. He remained in remission for years and years, but has died in old age. Additionally, Rita Klaus was healed of Multiple Sclerosis after visiting Medjugorje as were many others. The majority of sick come and leave Medjugorje with no physical healings. But, Our Lady has always stressed that the best and main healing is spiritual healing and reconciliation with our Heavenly Father.
mccallansteve
All one needs to know is that the so called seers have profited nicely from this scam. Enough said
CatholicDoors
For a large fee, many faithful who are addicted to apparitions were privileged to be in the seer's bedroom at night when the Virgin Mary appeared daily to give her message in private. Wow, what a privilege!
Tom Cieszinski
I would have to go there myself to really, really decide. Friends go there, I"m neutral and I think it seems both sides go overboard. Cardinal Sarah spoke at last Summer's Medjugorje Youth Festival. You really can't have it both ways and say, I like when he says this but reject other... well you can. But I'll patiently wait... also, believe it or not, the recently approved (2008) apparition of …More
I would have to go there myself to really, really decide. Friends go there, I"m neutral and I think it seems both sides go overboard. Cardinal Sarah spoke at last Summer's Medjugorje Youth Festival. You really can't have it both ways and say, I like when he says this but reject other... well you can. But I'll patiently wait... also, believe it or not, the recently approved (2008) apparition of Laus saw Our Lady appearing from something like 1664-1718, so yes, there does seem to be precedent for apparitions appearing over a number of years.
Les Crispi
Sarah has really been a disappointment during Bergolio's reign. He has imbibed the kool aid.
Kenjiro M. Yoshimori
Medjugorie is probably phony, just like the election of Francis was/is definitly phony. The "seers" of this site were mediocre actors. I totally believe in the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary at Lourdes(especially) as well as Fatima, Akita. But do I believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary would appear every day for 40 years to these "seers", on appear on command? Not likely. Many good things …More
Medjugorie is probably phony, just like the election of Francis was/is definitly phony. The "seers" of this site were mediocre actors. I totally believe in the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary at Lourdes(especially) as well as Fatima, Akita. But do I believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary would appear every day for 40 years to these "seers", on appear on command? Not likely. Many good things came from it though. The only bad were the supposed "seers" themselves, and the Franciscan friars there, who manipulated the supposed visions for their own advantage.
Ave Crux
I don't believe at all in the authenticity of Medjugorje. However, can we at least be grateful for one thing? I know many people going there in search of the supernatural have been touched by grace and had deep conversions of life to daily Rosary and daily Mass, made cleansing Confessions and returned home much more devout and practicing as Catholics than before.

This happened to a friend of …More
I don't believe at all in the authenticity of Medjugorje. However, can we at least be grateful for one thing? I know many people going there in search of the supernatural have been touched by grace and had deep conversions of life to daily Rosary and daily Mass, made cleansing Confessions and returned home much more devout and practicing as Catholics than before.

This happened to a friend of mine when he was in his early 20's. He came home a different person and has gone to daily Mass, frequent Adoration, etc. ever since, even after more than 15 years have passed.

There are also a number of very devout Priests who credit their conversion and vocation to Medjugorje. For example, Father Calloway, who has promoted Devotion to Saint Joseph so beautifully at a time when it is more urgently needed than ever. I heard that after contacting Rome about this devotion, it was the occasion that prompted Pope Francis to declare the Year of Saint Joseph.

I also know someone else who years ago went to see the horrific movie "Jesus Christ Superstar". They said they left the movie theater sobbing over what Christ had suffered for us, and about which they had been completely oblivious until then, having been raised in a non-practicing household. They went on to have a deep conversion and radical change of life.

I'd also once read of a satanist who suddenly received such a powerful light on the Real Presence while watching the Blessed Sacrament being desecrated at a Black Mass -- realizing their fury against the Host could only mean it was truly Christ, Himself.

So, while I don't believe Medjugorje is supernatural, it appears that God and the Blessed Virgin use the occasion to grant souls generous enough to make the difficult journey many supernatural graces and conversion of life for having gone there seeking Jesus and Mary.

God and the Blessed Virgin will seize any opportunity to respond with grace to seeking souls; especially when the Hierarchy itself is doing so much to destroy devotion, piety and faith in souls.
salliperson
What is a cleansing confession?
Ultraviolet
@salliperson Well, technically all valid confessions cleanse you from the stain of sin. A cleansing confession presumably goes further either using some kind of cleanser during the sacrament or (worse) as part of the penance..
Ave Crux
@salliperson Sorry for any confusion or vagueness in my choice of words. I'll be more clear. Reading accounts from different people who have gone to Confession while at Medjugorje, and some videos of people speaking about their Confessions while there, many receive the grace of a deep and penetrating understanding of how they have sinned against God, some reduced to tears and deep, overwhelming …More
@salliperson Sorry for any confusion or vagueness in my choice of words. I'll be more clear. Reading accounts from different people who have gone to Confession while at Medjugorje, and some videos of people speaking about their Confessions while there, many receive the grace of a deep and penetrating understanding of how they have sinned against God, some reduced to tears and deep, overwhelming compunction and even Perfect Contrition.

These salutary dispositions (as opposed to going to Confession out of custom or habit, and/or lacking a deep compunction appropriate to one's sins, with less-than-Perfect Contrition) have the effect of even greater graces of satisfaction and remission of the penalties due to sin upon making one's Confession.

This factor of "spiritual disposition" when receiving the Sacraments, and how this affects the sacramental fruits of one's reception of those Sacraments -- especially the fruit of "satisfaction" for the penalty of sin when confessing one's sins -- is taught in Moral Theology, Thomas Aquinas, etc.

IN FACT....that is why Saint Mary Magdalene, weeping for her sins with love, and bathing our Lord's feet under the impact of such a salvific, heart-piercing sorrow is the preeminent role model for penitents and the complete remission of one's sins and penalties through perfect sorrow.

I have made a number of General Confessions, but it was clearly after graces such as those mentioned above, that my soul experienced far greater spiritual benefits and fruits.
Ave Crux
@salliperson Also, the Church teaches that while an integral Confession remits our sins, it does not necessarily remit the punishment which we have merited for our sins. Sin's effect and penalites leave their imprint on our souls even after the guilt of sin is remitted in Confession.

Rather, it is our disposition, the purity of our love and the quality of our sorrow which can contribute to the …More
@salliperson Also, the Church teaches that while an integral Confession remits our sins, it does not necessarily remit the punishment which we have merited for our sins. Sin's effect and penalites leave their imprint on our souls even after the guilt of sin is remitted in Confession.

Rather, it is our disposition, the purity of our love and the quality of our sorrow which can contribute to the remission of the penalty as well.

This is what I was referring to. Many attest to the fact that they have made deeply purifying Confessions while at Medjugorje -- ie. with wholehearted sorrow and conversion of heart.

This may be due to the fact that going there in the manner of a sincere spiritual quest for a deeper relationship with God and the Blessed Virgin, on a kind of retreat, gives grace the space and occasion to effect these dispositions and fruits in the soul, even if the alleged apparitions are not authentic.

That is what I meant.
petrus100452
@Ave Crux: don't you think it is a strange god who uses false apparitions to grant graces. Would He cooperate in a fraud and so mislead people?
You don't have to doubt: Medjugorje is as authentic as Bethlehem.
Ave Crux
@petrus100452 Actually, if you reread my comment, I mention a number of other circumstances clearly opposed to God's perfect will and laws where He granted singular graces of conversion -- a satanist even converted at a Black Mass while seeing the Host desecrated! Go back and read my comment.

It's not that I think God used what I consider to be a false apparition...He's using the occasion …More
@petrus100452 Actually, if you reread my comment, I mention a number of other circumstances clearly opposed to God's perfect will and laws where He granted singular graces of conversion -- a satanist even converted at a Black Mass while seeing the Host desecrated! Go back and read my comment.

It's not that I think God used what I consider to be a false apparition...He's using the occasion of the soul's good will and seeking -- conditions absolutely necessary for the efficacy of grace -- as an ideal moment to grant the graces.

Our Lord said "Seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened to you...."

He didn't say "Go to only authentic apparitions in order to find grace...."

When a soul begins seeking God with a sincere heart -- even at a false apparition -- God often shows up with His grace, simply because it is the moment when the soul is particularly disposed, when it has the spiritual leisure, thirst and receptivity to the graces He has been waiting to grant it.

In fact, THAT'S THE GOOD NEWS.....We don't need apparitions, or only genuine apparitions to receive graces from God. We can receive those graces any time we seek Him with a thirsting, sincere heart.
petrus100452
@Ave Crux: Maybe in an exceptional case someone cab receive graces in a place of false apparition or even in an complete pagan or anti-christian environment. Of course, God can grant graces anywhere. But the many graces of conversion etc., that occurs in Medjugorje would make God untrustworthy if the apparitions were false. It is of course no big deal for God to mislead people, but that is …More
@Ave Crux: Maybe in an exceptional case someone cab receive graces in a place of false apparition or even in an complete pagan or anti-christian environment. Of course, God can grant graces anywhere. But the many graces of conversion etc., that occurs in Medjugorje would make God untrustworthy if the apparitions were false. It is of course no big deal for God to mislead people, but that is against his nature. God is Love.
giveusthisday
The most important message in many apparitions is Mary's sadness at the fate of humanity if we don't lead good lives, pray, especially the Rosary, and make sacrifices. Many of the apparitions also talk about apostasy within the highest echelons of the Church; for this we must pray, beg Christ and the Blessed Virgin for the freedom and exaltation of Holy Mother the Church. Also, of course, for …More
The most important message in many apparitions is Mary's sadness at the fate of humanity if we don't lead good lives, pray, especially the Rosary, and make sacrifices. Many of the apparitions also talk about apostasy within the highest echelons of the Church; for this we must pray, beg Christ and the Blessed Virgin for the freedom and exaltation of Holy Mother the Church. Also, of course, for the conversion of sinners.
Starlight777
when things get a little boring at GTV, they dredge up something about Medjugorje because they know GTV is the home for misanthropes of Medjugorje
philosopher
There was nothing misanthropic in the article, only the facts that no miracles have taken place.
petrus100452
@philosopher: Fact is that the Congregation for the Causes of Saints considered the cases not scientifically inexplicable. I have experienced dozens of events (healings, conversions, signs) in Medjugorje that I consider completely scientifically inexplicable. Future will tell who sees it right... (The very fact that after 40 years Medjugorje still has millions of believers for whom the Queen of …More
@philosopher: Fact is that the Congregation for the Causes of Saints considered the cases not scientifically inexplicable. I have experienced dozens of events (healings, conversions, signs) in Medjugorje that I consider completely scientifically inexplicable. Future will tell who sees it right... (The very fact that after 40 years Medjugorje still has millions of believers for whom the Queen of Peace is the fulfillment of Faitima is in itself scientifically inexplicable).
Les Crispi
Petrus, maybe they are preternatural events, not supernatural events? From the dark side, perhaps?
petrus100452
@Les Crispi: That argument (often used) is so ridiculous. The devil is not able to bring forth true love for Jesus and Mary. Many people have found God and have started to live a sacramental life thanks to the Queen of Peace. Many authentic and lasting conversions (I witnessed many).... Not a trace of darkness!
Les Crispi
@petrus100452 well, now, think. If you're a pilgrim yearning to get closer to Jesus and Mary, you will receive love from God for making that effort, regardless of whether the place you go to is holy or not. God's love comes through darkness, through mistakes, through false notions.

If it didn't, we wouldn't have people convert.

So it's not ridiculous, it's part of the mystery of God's ways.

More
@petrus100452 well, now, think. If you're a pilgrim yearning to get closer to Jesus and Mary, you will receive love from God for making that effort, regardless of whether the place you go to is holy or not. God's love comes through darkness, through mistakes, through false notions.

If it didn't, we wouldn't have people convert.

So it's not ridiculous, it's part of the mystery of God's ways.

Good luck.
petrus100452
@Les Crispi So many people, going to Medjugorje, yearning to get closer to Jesus and Mary, receiving God's love for making the effort and God does not enlighten them about the deceptive nature of the apparitions? What kind of God is that? God's ways are mysterious indeed, but not misleading.
Les Crispi
@petrus100452 I'm pretty sure God is enlightening people right now about Medjugorje, and you assume that everyone that went didn't receive this revelation. I don't know, if I went there and saw the craven capitalism everywhere, and really thought about the Mary apparition industry going on there, I might search for more answers.

God doesn't mislead, and I didn't say He did. You need to take …More
@petrus100452 I'm pretty sure God is enlightening people right now about Medjugorje, and you assume that everyone that went didn't receive this revelation. I don't know, if I went there and saw the craven capitalism everywhere, and really thought about the Mary apparition industry going on there, I might search for more answers.

God doesn't mislead, and I didn't say He did. You need to take that back. What I said was that God reveals Himself in different ways according to His plan for us. Think of the thief on the cross. He knew God under the worst possible circumstances. Think of Paul, who loved God dearly yet was clearly worshipping him the wrong way when he was Saul.

I'm sorry you have chosen to not look any deeper than the superficial. There are many good protestants who do receive grace from God, and love from God, but they don't know the complete truth. And they can't know God's love fullyu.

Think about that.
petrus100452
Les Crispi I would recommend you go to Medjugorje without prejudice. That would mean not being guided by superficial reasoning. Since 1992, I have been to Medjugorje more than 50 times as a leader of pilgrim groups. I know the seers personally, as well as the Franciscan Fathers responsible for the parish of Medjugorje. I know the history from A to Z and I have witnessed many conversions and …More
Les Crispi I would recommend you go to Medjugorje without prejudice. That would mean not being guided by superficial reasoning. Since 1992, I have been to Medjugorje more than 50 times as a leader of pilgrim groups. I know the seers personally, as well as the Franciscan Fathers responsible for the parish of Medjugorje. I know the history from A to Z and I have witnessed many conversions and healings. None of this is a guarantee that my opinion of Medjugorje is correct, but to say that I am guided by the superficial is a bit ridiculous.
mystic
Cracking down on apparitions that also provide prophecies that are supposed to take place as they say 'soon' or 'within a seers lifetime', is a cakewalk to victory. But is it victory? naaah. Saying things like: I have been saying that for x years? And then what do you feel? Superiority? Over what? Once the seers die, then will the "you see I was correct!" feeling taste like honey? Sorry all …More
Cracking down on apparitions that also provide prophecies that are supposed to take place as they say 'soon' or 'within a seers lifetime', is a cakewalk to victory. But is it victory? naaah. Saying things like: I have been saying that for x years? And then what do you feel? Superiority? Over what? Once the seers die, then will the "you see I was correct!" feeling taste like honey? Sorry all those discussions are pathological. You can as well throw a coin and say: Head it is true and tail it is not, having a coin with two tails. And what will you do when the coin drops and stays on its edge? You will shake your shoulders and continue cracking down, just because now you can't back off from the ranting. Always for all the wrong reasons. Will you be punished by God for supporting or not supporting an apparition? Jesus said: I would thou wert cold or hot. You will probably be punished for not taking a stance more than because of the stance in this kind of questions where you can't know the answer.
CatholicDoors
I agree 100%. I have been saying that for 20 years regarding both, Gobbi and Medjugorge.

Another one I disagree with is "Divine Mercy" which was invented to destroy the devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Medjugorje was invented to destroy the devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Chat Chartreux
Many say to distract from Our Lady of Fatima
Les Crispi
I never saw DMC as destroying devotion to the Sacred Heart, but the rubrics of the DMC bother me.
Kenjiro M. Yoshimori
I never thought of that, but it could be true..Medjugorje used as a device during the Serbo/Bosnian war in the late 1980's early 90's. The Serbs (Greek Orthodox Christians) wanted to ethnically cleanse Bosnia of it's Muslim population, so that it would once again be largely Christian (Orthodox and Catholic). But that is impossible, because large parts of Eastern Europe are Muslim/Moslem. Many …More
I never thought of that, but it could be true..Medjugorje used as a device during the Serbo/Bosnian war in the late 1980's early 90's. The Serbs (Greek Orthodox Christians) wanted to ethnically cleanse Bosnia of it's Muslim population, so that it would once again be largely Christian (Orthodox and Catholic). But that is impossible, because large parts of Eastern Europe are Muslim/Moslem. Many people when they think Muslim think the Middle East, and that's it. But during the time of the Ottoman Empire of Turkey, especially during the reign of the Ottoman Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent (in 16th century), large parts of Bulgaria, Macedonia, Bosnia, Albania and even Greece were forcefully converted to Islam. When the Ottoman Empire dissolved and was suppressed in the 1920's, these parts of Eastern Europe had been Muslim for 350-400 years, so it would be impossible for these Serbs to eliminate them. They wanted to do to the Muslims and Catholics what Hitler did to the Jewish people. Medjugorje popped up at the right time, to give the persecuted CAtholics something to believe in. I don't believe it was an orchestrated event, because the Blessed Virgin does appear to people when they are under intense persecution, but it was very convenient...and the "seers" and the Franciscan priests who ran afew parishes in the area organized pilgrimages and profited from them (especially the Franciscans). It probably isn't totally fake, but it was just what the Catholics of Bosnia needed at the time. And that's alittle suspicious.
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Medjugorje = Montanism + Fr. Stefano Gobbi 's Fake messages.
Their followers like Medjugorie.
Medjugorie Pilgrims are just for Bosnian tourist business.
Kenjiro M. Yoshimori
I just read about Fr. Gobbi. He sounded quite legitimate. Many photos showed him with JPII. But I forgot that JPII supported many groups which turned out to be questionable. Legionaries of Christ, Fraternity of St. John, Taize, Neocateumenical Way, etc.
philosopher
Birds of a feather flock together!