Wilma Lopez shares this
151
A much-needed reminder that cardinal Sarah is not and never was a traditionalist. Like Pope Benedict he's a good man wholeheartedly supportive of VII and the 'reform of the reform'- among other things he favours the readings in the vernacular.
Dr Bobus
@thomasvalle

A recent Pew Poll in the US showed that 66% of all Catholics who regularly attend mass believe that in Transubstantiation. Of those who do not regularly attend mass, 33% believe it.

The poll indicates that the big problem is not that Trads don't think the Novus Ordo is valid. Rather, it is that 33% of regular NO attendees themselves also don't think it's valid.
thomasvalle
Only about 1% of Catholics in the world are traditionalists, and of those, many think the pope is not the pope, that Vatican II was a false Council, and that the Novus Ordo is invalid. So that isn’t Catholic either. Instead of putting their trust in the pope and the Magisterium, they trust the Internet and men who think they have more authority and are more Catholic than the pope. They also don’…More
Only about 1% of Catholics in the world are traditionalists, and of those, many think the pope is not the pope, that Vatican II was a false Council, and that the Novus Ordo is invalid. So that isn’t Catholic either. Instead of putting their trust in the pope and the Magisterium, they trust the Internet and men who think they have more authority and are more Catholic than the pope. They also don’t seem to realize that the first Mass was not in Latin but in Aramaic.

I Love the Traditional Latin Mass, the problem is the culture among groups within traditionalism who have formed a kind of cult-like following of a beautiful liturgy to the detriment of the gospel. Like attending a beautiful opera that sounds, looks and makes one feel good, but after leaving the theater they are back to the same old same old.

Christ commands us to love our enemies; these days the scandal is to witness how Catholics hate their bishops, mock and slander the pope and everyone that is not in their liturgical club.

Here is a video of Pope Benedict explaining the FALSE Vatican Council of the media: youtu.be/CfTWC5lPshM
Paul_D
Christ also commands us not to scandalize the young. Francis has done that with his various mockeries, irreverence, and other such things!
thomasvalle
@Paul_D not Francis, but rather the media and sensational headlines twisting his words and intentions.
De Profundis shares this
25
Any attempt at Straussian irony falters here
Seidenspinner
I don't expect a huge flood of people to the TLM, but I do expect a flood out of the NO
V.R.S.
Suppression is openness.
Annihilation is life.
Banishment is inclusiveness.
Jan Joseph
Kardinaal Sarah komt erg angstig over, wordt kardinaal Sarah bedreigd?
petrus100452
Cardinal Sarah is in a phase of denial, it will pass
rhemes1582
@thomasvalle This statement by you
"Unfortunately the traditionalist movement is quickly becoming just another “ism” that is leading groups into a caricature of Catholicism and leading many into schism. "
What a vicious, dishonest, and unchristian thing to write. Certainly you continue to strike your colors up here, and from my vantage point they are NOT Catholic.

Long Live Christ The King.
More
@thomasvalle This statement by you
"Unfortunately the traditionalist movement is quickly becoming just another “ism” that is leading groups into a caricature of Catholicism and leading many into schism. "
What a vicious, dishonest, and unchristian thing to write. Certainly you continue to strike your colors up here, and from my vantage point they are NOT Catholic.

Long Live Christ The King.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
thomasvalle
rhemes158
I love the Traditional Latin Mass. The problem are traditionalists who ruin it for everyone; what is truly not Catholic is to mock and slander the pope, to reject Church Councils and tell other Catholics that their Novus Ordo is not valid. These are all things coming from traditionalists. All those Sede Vacante groups are the product of nutty traditionalism; simply look up the …More
rhemes158
I love the Traditional Latin Mass. The problem are traditionalists who ruin it for everyone; what is truly not Catholic is to mock and slander the pope, to reject Church Councils and tell other Catholics that their Novus Ordo is not valid. These are all things coming from traditionalists. All those Sede Vacante groups are the product of nutty traditionalism; simply look up the Palmarian church.

Again, unfortunately the traditionalist movement is quickly becoming just another “ism” leading groups into a caricature of Catholicism and moving many into schism, especially with the influence of the Internet and fake news besmirching the pope. The cartoons speak for themselves.
rhemes1582
rhemes1582
This is a pagan offering placed on the Altar over St. Peter's bones. You just need to be Catholic to see this offence. You however throw mud and vicious accusations against faithful Catholics attached to the ancient usage in a manner similiar to an ideolog trapped in his errors.
Catholics see the gravity of this pontificate including those that attend the Novus Ordo and the Traditional Latin …More
This is a pagan offering placed on the Altar over St. Peter's bones. You just need to be Catholic to see this offence. You however throw mud and vicious accusations against faithful Catholics attached to the ancient usage in a manner similiar to an ideolog trapped in his errors.
Catholics see the gravity of this pontificate including those that attend the Novus Ordo and the Traditional Latin Mass.
@thomasvalle stop attacking the Catholic Faith, and faithful with your vitriol. Stop trying to divide the faithful.

What is truly not Catholic are the 2 actions captured in these pictures.
philosopher
@thomasvalle I think it's important to make distinctions in that traditional Catholics are not monolithic. There are as you say, sedevacantists, but in addition, also those that attend a diocesan TLM, those that attend regular canonical TLM order masses, and those that attend SSPX chapels, and some who attend both FSSP and SSPX, so one cannot place all traditionalists in the same camp. Many …More
@thomasvalle I think it's important to make distinctions in that traditional Catholics are not monolithic. There are as you say, sedevacantists, but in addition, also those that attend a diocesan TLM, those that attend regular canonical TLM order masses, and those that attend SSPX chapels, and some who attend both FSSP and SSPX, so one cannot place all traditionalists in the same camp. Many great saints and lay Catholics have rightly criticized bad popes in the past and Pope Francis certainly is worthy of -respectful- key word here- criticism. I would agree with you that disrespectful criticism is uncharitable and should be avoided. However, to say that a Pope can never be criticized is Ultamonatism and popalatry. It is also unCatholic.
thomasvalle
@philosopher No Saint in the Catholic Church ever mocked or attacked a pope like what we see coming from traditionalist attacking Pope Francis, and those who seem to approve of it. They are more like the original Protestants all of whom were Catholics who mocked and attacked the pope. The pope on earth that represents unity in the Church. Thus he is especially targeted by the evil one to cause …More
@philosopher No Saint in the Catholic Church ever mocked or attacked a pope like what we see coming from traditionalist attacking Pope Francis, and those who seem to approve of it. They are more like the original Protestants all of whom were Catholics who mocked and attacked the pope. The pope on earth that represents unity in the Church. Thus he is especially targeted by the evil one to cause division. And beware of blinded religious; it was the blinded religious who called Christ Beelzebub. (Matt 10:25)

And especially beware of the media. You just labeled him a “bad pope” because of what you saw on the Internet. The media is a master of twisting and misrepresenting words, actions, and intentions. Today, traditionalist Catholic social media has ubiquitously degenerated into vitriolic slanderous attacks against Pope Francis.

In Canon Law, a Catholic who physically attacks the Vicar of Christ receives the penalty of automatic excommunication; that alone I think puts in perspective the gravity of all the mockery and slanderous attacks against him that people so easily indulge in these days.
V.R.S.
"No Saint in the Catholic Church ever mocked or attacked a pope like what we see coming from traditionalist attacking Pope Francis"
---
No Saint in the past of the Catholic Church had a pope like Francis (assuming that he is a pope). Moreover, for example St. Vincent Ferrer attacked the pope, he was a public schismatic and became a saint. St. Bernard of Clairvaux openly attacked the anti-pope …More
"No Saint in the Catholic Church ever mocked or attacked a pope like what we see coming from traditionalist attacking Pope Francis"
---
No Saint in the past of the Catholic Church had a pope like Francis (assuming that he is a pope). Moreover, for example St. Vincent Ferrer attacked the pope, he was a public schismatic and became a saint. St. Bernard of Clairvaux openly attacked the anti-pope despite many prelates who considered the latter a true pope. Therefore, using a classic quote: "WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE?"
thomasvalle
@rhemes1582 anti-Catholics post images of Catholics kneeling before statues of the Virgin Mary as incontrovertible evidence and proof that Catholics worship statues. That lie is based on ignorance. As for the images you present as proof that Pope Francis is a bad pope, one need only watch the event in context. It’s simply another lie based on ignorance. All over the traditionalist social …More
@rhemes1582 anti-Catholics post images of Catholics kneeling before statues of the Virgin Mary as incontrovertible evidence and proof that Catholics worship statues. That lie is based on ignorance. As for the images you present as proof that Pope Francis is a bad pope, one need only watch the event in context. It’s simply another lie based on ignorance. All over the traditionalist social media the claim that the natives were bowing down and worshipping the “Pachamama idol” is based on an edited video snippet. In reality, they were thanking God our Father, for the goodness of Creation. What most people saw was an edited clip. The event was in the context of the feast of Saint Francis of Assisi where in the ceremony they sang St. Francis’ Canticle of the Sun, where St. Francis gives thanks to God for “Brother Sun” “Sister Moon” and “Mother Earth”. Those are the words of St. Francis of Assisi.

The problem is that people were too lazy to watch the entire event, and put their faith in the Internet, sensational headlines, and all the talking heads who see everything through their smoke colored political glasses. Since they obviously did not understand the Spanish, Portuguese and Italian that was spoken at the ceremony, they based their conclusions on pictures and edited video.

The gossip and the false news narrative drowned out the truth, and people were reacting and taking sides on the false narratives, and not the real intentions.

The simple intention of Pope Francis was to put a real face on the problems in the Amazonian regions, as detailed in his apostolic exhortation Querida Amazonia. Previously, Pope Benedict XVI had condemned the injustices against the Amazonian people and decried the devastation to the the Amazon Basin and the ramifications it has caused to entire populations. In Querida Amazonia, Pope Francis described the terrible injustices which has decimated lands, polluted rivers, displaced populations and created all kinds of social problems, including exploitation, sex trafficking, drug trafficking and massive destruction of the ecology in the name of money.

Here is that ceremony on context if you want to bother to watch It. The wooden statue was part of a display, along with a parrot, canoes and fishing nets and other items representing Amazonian regions. In the end you will see these same people planting trees giving thanks to God Our Father our Creator, and not “installing demons” or worshipping pagan idols as you may have heard on the Internet. Here is the video:

youtu.be/wPK7RpoUzPk
rhemes1582
@thomasvalle
You start your entry with a very dishonest deception " anti-Catholics post images of Catholics kneeling before statues of the Virgin Mary as incontrovertible evidence and proof that Catholics worship statues. That lie is based on ignorance." You try to compare biogotry with an actual event.
The image of P.F. receiving dirt offered to a pagan God was during Holy Mass and then placed…More
@thomasvalle
You start your entry with a very dishonest deception " anti-Catholics post images of Catholics kneeling before statues of the Virgin Mary as incontrovertible evidence and proof that Catholics worship statues. That lie is based on ignorance." You try to compare biogotry with an actual event.
The image of P.F. receiving dirt offered to a pagan God was during Holy Mass and then placed on St. Peter's Altar at same Mass! Shame on you thomasville.. May all see your trickery.

The ceremony in the garden that your so found of was also performed on 1st Friday , traditionally dedicated to The Sacred Heart of Jesus.
May the great St Francis of Assisi who's feast day it was, pray for the faithful of these days to see through the deceptions of those embracing error.

Speaking of snippets which you mention in your latest post to me..Here's a beauty;
You so slightly say "The wooden statue was part of a display." I say the wooden statue was part of the ceremony" Shame on you again thomasvalle. Stop with the deceptions please.
thomasvalle
@rhemes1582 again, watch the video. Your pictures are no different than the ones used by anti Catholics who use them as proof that Catholics worship idols. In doing so you are spreading slanderous lies. Here is the video again:
youtu.be/wPK7RpoUzPk
Paul_D
Sorry, thomasville but no, that is just a pure pagan ceremony, with Francis pretending to Catholicize it. The natives there actually are worshipping pagan gods! lifesitenews.com/…zon-synods-pagan-tree-planting-this-is-horrendous/ If you hide your head in the sand, anything Francis does is good, no matter how diluting the Faith it is!
thomasvalle
Judging by the sectarianism and vile attitude coming from many who identify as traditionalists, it is no surprise that the pope has put the use of the TLM under the supervision of the local bishops, especially since many traditionalism promoters besmirch the ordinary mass, call it invalid, reject Vatican II Council, attack, and mock and slander the pope, and seem to reduce the gospel to …More
Judging by the sectarianism and vile attitude coming from many who identify as traditionalists, it is no surprise that the pope has put the use of the TLM under the supervision of the local bishops, especially since many traditionalism promoters besmirch the ordinary mass, call it invalid, reject Vatican II Council, attack, and mock and slander the pope, and seem to reduce the gospel to attending the Latin Mass and following rules out of fear of going to hell. This is not the way of love. Unfortunately the traditionalist movement is quickly becoming just another “ism” that is leading groups into a caricature of Catholicism and leading many into schism. Instead of pushing the Latin Mass so much, Catholics should work on making their local ordinary mass as reverent as it was intended to be. There are beautiful Novus Ordo masses, with the priest facing the altar, and N.O. priests bringing back communion rails and practicing traditional Catholic devotions, without the poisonous attitude. Catholics have a much greater responsibility in the world than non-Catholics. Here are two talk by Archbishop Sheen that reminds us that the gospel is not merely about following rules and attending beautiful liturgies: Talk 1: americancatholictruthsociety.com/sheen/27Confirmation.mp3
Talk 2: americancatholictruthsociety.com/articles/sheen.htm
pgmgn
...a vile attitude is often the result of repeated abuse.

Sorry. Is what it is.
Mikhael Manafort Montrose
Thomasvalle, you have to be a boomer.
The Novus Ordo is the biggest failure in your church’s history.
V.R.S.
The Low Mass of the Roman Rite is rather austere and simple. It is not a question of beauty but Faith. Lex orandi and lex credendi in the consequence - without poisonous attitudes of the liturgical & nouvelle theologie revolution.
One more thing: Novus Ordo sectarianism is unable to wipe out the Traditional Rite of the Holy Roman Catholic & Apostolic Church and stop the Catholic revival. Si …More
The Low Mass of the Roman Rite is rather austere and simple. It is not a question of beauty but Faith. Lex orandi and lex credendi in the consequence - without poisonous attitudes of the liturgical & nouvelle theologie revolution.
One more thing: Novus Ordo sectarianism is unable to wipe out the Traditional Rite of the Holy Roman Catholic & Apostolic Church and stop the Catholic revival. Si Deus nobiscum quis contra nos?
thomasvalle
@V.R.S. Again, no saint ever mocked, attacked or besmirched a pope the way many traditionalists mock Pope Francis. St Paul himself as an apostle, corrected Peter, he didn’t mock him, or slander him. The cartoons speak for themselves. As for the famous quote “who am I to judge” by Pope Francis, that’s another example of a false media narrative.
Paul_D
The traditionalists I know don't mock Francis, but they give criticism of his various mockeries and disturbing remarks, including receiving a Hammer and Sickle Cross and Pachamama!
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" the biggest failure in your church "ㅡ> in Our church.
giveusthisday
Cardinal Sarah changes his opinion the way some people change their clothes.
Chat Chartreux
Pray for the bishops.
John A Cassani
I can believe that Bergoglio is telling Trad-sympathetic bishops that TC is about anything other than attempting to eliminate the Old Rite. But, if he did, it’s almost certainly an expression of the Peronism that Henry Sire described in The Dictator Pope. His way of maintaining power is to tell everyone who comes before him what they want to hear. Cardinal Sarah just seems to have a high …More
I can believe that Bergoglio is telling Trad-sympathetic bishops that TC is about anything other than attempting to eliminate the Old Rite. But, if he did, it’s almost certainly an expression of the Peronism that Henry Sire described in The Dictator Pope. His way of maintaining power is to tell everyone who comes before him what they want to hear. Cardinal Sarah just seems to have a high tolerance for being lied to.
pgmgn
SESPS - Sow's Ear Silk Purse Syndrome.
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A black man's white lie ? Fear of his firing ?
Dr Bobus
Cardinal Sarah is already retired.
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@Dr Bobus
Dear Dr.Bobus,
I mean..
Cardinal Sarah Appointed to Congregation for Oriental Churches — Catholic Arena
When Cardinal Sarah’s resignation was accepted..

May I ask you a question ? Is this my misunderstanding ?
(The prefect is Cardinal Leonardo Sandri)